Pretty good surgeons site.........................

[michael barry]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/quer ... t=Abstract

I dont know if this outfit is extremely expensive or not, but they dont do donor scars and just FUE's with an instrument they seem to have especially made for the purpose. That in itself is impressive. So if you are a good candidate. Think Id look their site over.

By the way, for all whove read my posts in the forum and know Im very cautious about transplantation.........if you want to know my opinion of what doctors are both capable and will not "do you harm" (at least intentionally).....Id list Dr. John Cole and Dr. Robert Jones up there on the list. There is a guy in Atlanta whose name escapes me for now that is highly regarded also. ray Woods has been a real pioneer (FUE, bodyhair ....which is kind of a last resort according to him, but if youre outta donor there is no more choice) . There are good docs performing transplants, not all will mislead you. Some do the best they can with the hair you have.

However, you could not paint the Mona Lisa with 16 crayons and poster board,....................but instead paints, brushes, canvas, a terazel, etc. Keep that in mind. Its hard for even a pro to stretch 50,000 hairs to cover an area that should have 75,000 and used to have 110,000. Hairsite is a pretty good place to see lively discussions on docs.


However gents, again, some salesscum will try to talk you into a hairline that is overstepping your long-term donor capabilities. Think long and hard. Personally, I wish transplants had a waiting period for anyone under 35 for about a year so they could think it through first.

 

[michael barry]

CHIT gents,,,,

I posted the wrong link.

http://www.dhiglobal.com/ That is the surgeons site. Whoops guys, sorry about that.

 

[Mahair]

I don't know about Jones he stripped out a young army Captain a couple of years ago for minor (half-dollar) sized crown loss. Not only scaring him up but causing alot of shock.

 

[michael barry]

Mahair,

Its interesting to detail just which surgeorns are practicing the latest techniques. The history of transplantation, some advocates and even doctors will tell you, has been pratfallen with docs and docs groups like the ISHRS and others resisting postive change within the biz on how transplants are performed.

Believe it or not, back in the day when large 12-hair punch grafts were the norm, there was some resistance to mini and migro grafts (1 to perhaps 10 hairs) being pulled out a piece of skin cut out of the back of the head (donor scar method, which is better than a bunch of eraser sized holes in the back of a mans head-yikes). When follicular units came out, in which surgeons would have to train their techs to identify under magnification and cut out (usually 2 to 4 hair "units" that hair seems to grow in most of the time), again.....................many docs in various professional organizations initially resisted the change. But it was still strip -scar surgery.

When follicular unit extraction and the FIT method came about, a ton of surgeons bitched. I even had one Doctor on a consultation tell me personally that "there was no such thing, and everybody makes donor scars". I was told "you cant believe what you read on the internet and that (he) wrote half of it anyway". Needless to say I dont trust him, or the friend of his he tried to steer (refer) me to. I had to pay a hundred and ten bucks to even talk to him for five minutes. He told me three big lies, insulted my intelligence, and denied FUE surgeries four years after they were taking place. What a piece of work.

Getting FUE's out are a pain in the *** for a surgeon, and there is a risk of damaging some of the follicles (transection), but at least there are not zip scars. One can still buzz the head. My own little dark opinion are that many docs love the zip scars because it forever keeps the patient for opting for the buzz look after the surgery. He's stuck getting more and more as he receeds.

This DHI outfit, of whom I have no idea of the satisfaction of their clientielle overall, has invented a mini-punch to take out folliciular units and single hairs and transplant them, donor scar free. They do body hair.

Im still an unbeliever at this point on body hair. Body hair needs androgens, so a guy couldnt' do something like spironolcatone with them, and would be well advised to stay away from dutasteride on them. Ray Woods says usually they only grow about three times their original length on the body. However, for men with bear-like chest hair........there would be a potential source for alot of body hair to be moved to the head. But the expense is extrodinary. At least Woods, Jones, Cole, Umar, Poswal, DHI and a few others are looking for extra sources of hair.

Thats what I want to get across to these guys under 30. Docs can place em' these days fairly well (although you will never have original density, and there will be recipient scars in the form of little white dots), but 50,000 hairs do not stretch to cover the area that 100,000 plus hairs used to. In fact, since men have bigger heads than women do on average, Id wager that most men (we are told full heads of hair contain 100-150 thousand hairs) proboably had 110-120.

Jones does FUE for 10 bucks a graft unless he's changed his price. His work looks pretty good on site, but that doesnt include all his work. Thats alot for hair. Men also dont realize that the first 5 thousand dollar surgery will precipitate a couple of more surgeries on average. As the years pass, the price goes up. Initial surgeries used to cost about 2-grand ten years ago. They are higher now. Especially if you cant wrangle out a price per graft before they figure out how much money you make. If you make a ton, you'll be charged a ton at some places. MHR and Bosley used to play that little game.

We will know alot more about body hair results about two years from now in my opinion..............................see what they look like down the line and if they circumferentially get wider and straighten out and lengthen to mimic head hair. Ive seen a couple dudes at hairsite who had body hair moved a while back and still look like they have chest hair on their heads. Its a gamble to me at this point.

 

[Mahair]

Well the work on Jones site might look good but thats cherry picked patients one year out (full bloom) that have not experienced shockloss or progressive male pattern baldness . Which hair transplants can accelertate greatly. Even if someone looks good "now' they are more than likley going to look like $hit later. Also FUE will give a moth eaten look to the back of your head and leaves white dots. It is not scar free.The recipient will still be effected by fibrosis also.

 

[Heliboy1]

I see alot of great points made here regarding FUE/body hair . I do want to point out that with the appropriate extraction technique the 'moth ball' result is not an issue. I actually call it the white dot syndrome. I know it well because my first FUE several years ago in the early stages left me with white dots.I only wish Dr Umar had been around at that time. This has not been the case at all after 13,866 prestine extractions on my body since I began my work with Dr Umar. I can tell you this from experience -vast experience. Not all surgeons are created equal. It took me a long time, alot of scars and some pain to find one that offered me results as discussed . As more procedures as performed and the results are yielded body hair will be seen as a very useful option for those with extensive balding that need coverage beyond what scalp FUE can yield.


Dr Umar - 13,866 BHT grafts (September/November 2005)(April 2006)

 

[michael barry]

Heliboy,

Have you experimented with pronathocyanidins or copper peptides on the body hair that you moved to the scalp along with the minoxidil?

Im about to begin a little personal experiment myself. Im going to apply copper peptides, proanthocyandins (apple), alpecin, sprio, blueberry proanthocyanidins (may be anti-androgenic), and avocado oil (beta sitosterol in that) on various parts of my arms and hands twice a day for three months. I plan to take pictures. I want to see if the stimulants stimulate, and if the anti-androgens decrease body hair growth.


I dont know for sure, but as peptides and proanthocyanidins aren't anti-androgenic, they may increase body hair growth.

Thats kind of a "fix" for a man with body hair moved to the scalp. He's got to keep receptor-blockers away from the body hair because the body hair thrives on it. It will be very interesting to see you and Scientists progress over the next few years in terms of the hair you moved not only lengthening but (hopefully) thickening circumferentially to be more like head hair as well. Im one of those who do not think kinkiness (unless your body hair is awfully kinky) should be that much of a long term problem. Chemical straighters can do wonders there.


The thing about body hair is the cost. It is expensive to FUE out head hair, much less body hair. I wish they could "pluck it" and have enough stem cell DNA attatched to the papilla to regenerate a hair. That way, no donor scar possibility, much faster harvesting.

I have a very small donor scar. Ive thought on many occasions about getting perhaps 150 body hairs put into it. I really dont want more hair up front to be honest, as my hair is "OK" for now. I still waiting on phase 2 from Intercytex to guage what I can expect in the future.



By the way, what do you think of DHI's venture into body hair? They are making claims that they can pull one hair out of a three hair follicular unit from the back and put it up front, and the three hair unit in the back will "make" another hair to replace it.......................I hate to say it, but I think they are lying there. It would be GREAT if that were so. Whats the word over at hairsite about that? Is it discussed in the transplant forum much?

 

[Heliboy1]

Michael,

Your questions to me:
Have you experimented with pronathocyanidins or copper peptides on the body hair that you moved to the scalp along with the minoxidil?

**** I see so many ideas passed across the forums. There are so many
different regimens that you could present to the post op procedure
wth the goal in mind of enhancing characteristics of body hair and
stimulating growth. I guess because I have been through the hair
wars now for 18 years I want a simple solution . After wearing a
hairpiece for 13 years and constant maintenance day in and day out-
it is now so nice to have no maintenance except a brief haircut.
Experimenting with the different products is not a bad idea but it
is not for me. I personally use a 15% Minoxidil solution applied
daily . This solution soaks in well and is not seen . This is all of the
maintenance that I desire with my transplants. I just like enjoying
my new sense of freedom in all activities and not worrying about
my hair anymore. Will I have more work done -yes but that is the
perfectionist in me that wants it a certain way . I am very
pleased .



One important point that I think needs to be made:
As you have pointed out in at least one of your information post -
body hair does not always exhibit the exact coverage as scalp hair.
For someone like myself who was a Norwood 6 I actually need
approx. 18,000=20000 grafts to provide vast coverage that would
virutally mimic the look of scalp hair. I have only had approx. 11,000
grafts added to my Norwood area . To this point the other 2800 have
been added to my large strip scars. So in reality I am only 1/2 the
way where I will eventually be when all is said and done. I am not
trying (aside from Minoxidil) to have the body hair that I have
transplanted outperform themselves. They will only cover a certain
area and that is it- this is why future dense packing sessions will
be done in areas that I feel it is needed .

I have a very small donor scar. Ive thought on many occasions about getting perhaps 150 body hairs put into it. I really dont want more hair up front to be honest, as my hair is "OK" for now. I still waiting on phase 2 from Intercytex to guage what I can expect in the future

*** You should have the work done. 150 grafts would only take 3-4
hours to place into your scar . One thing that I emphasize is that
body hair is excellent for all but especially Norwood 1,2,3,4 who
have suffient amounts of scalp hair as donor. I personally say that
a 50/50 combination of scalp /body hair is an excellent combination
for any area that needs filling. This 50/50 combination works well
on the hairline as well. As with any session- this 50/50 is dependent
on the characteristics of ones body hair. Mine happens to be coarse
and dark which has worked well.

By the way, what do you think of DHI's venture into body hair? They are making claims that they can pull one hair out of a three hair follicular unit from the back and put it up front, and the three hair unit in the back will "make" another hair to replace it.......................I hate to say it, but I think they are lying there. It would be GREAT if that were so. Whats the word over at hairsite about that? Is it discussed in the transplant forum much?

**** I dont know anything about this . I cant comment . It would
be hard to believe but again I havent seen or heard of it myself.
I'm quite sure if it was the norm it would be a standard course for
all procedures .



Dr Umar - 13,866 BHT grafts (September /November 2005)(April 2006)

 

[michael barry]

Heliboy,
Youre site is a good one. I wish the young guys all get a chance to look at your site. They can see what can go both right and wrong in the world of hair. They would know what big donor scars are, how much money they will have to come up with, the fact that baldness is progressive, the dangers of getting work too young. Its all there. Thats all Ive ever wanted for the young guys. Cosmetic surgery, cutting oneself............is a huge step in life. Im glad youve decided to stay online a bit, even after your satisfaction has been attained, to show others the front, back, top, sides or your hair, how many procedures, and the cost. Thats what folks deserve, the truth. Youv'e been kind enough to be straight about it.

I understand on the minoxidil. alone. You may not know this, but Bryan Shelton pretty firmly believes that 2% minoxidil is as good as the higher percentage-formulas............you just have to use more of it. Minoxidil sulfate is minoxidil sulfate. Believe it or not, in tests.........even the propylene glycol and alchohol carriers alone seem to see more hair growth over placebo. Im personally giving copper peptides and proanthocyandins, and alpecin a little personal test on parts of my body hair now. In 4 or 5 months..........I'll log onto hairsite or here and let people know if anything worked well. Best of luck

 

[CCS]

To the poster who posted that crappy FUE site:

Thank you for posting the wrong link the first time. I think I'll sprinkle some of my grape seed extract powder into my minoxidil, as well as taking the capsules orally.