Polichem

[Pavi]

I posted a link to a company that has a topical finasteride in phase III trial and nobody seemed excited over it? Why is this?

 

[Hairloss23]

Because topical finasteride has the same sides as normal finasteride and even if it didn't it would be less efficient than normal finasteride as it would work by going systemic. We all know you're terrified of Finasteride sexual sides so if you're really going to spend your whole time looking for alternative treatments look at CB-03-01, Setipiprant, RU58841 and the fabled Saw Palmetto, of course that would probably give you sides as well because you're so worked up about this you're bound to get psychological side effects, hell you'd get them from a sugar pill if someone told you there was a slightest risk of them.

 

[Pavi]

Because topical finasteride has the same sides as normal finasteride and even if it didn't it would be less efficient than normal finasteride as it would work by going systemic. We all know you're terrified of Finasteride sexual sides so if you're really going to spend your whole time looking for alternative treatments look at CB-03-01, Setipiprant, RU58841 and the fabled Saw Palmetto, of course that would probably give you sides as well because you're so worked up about this you're bound to get psychological side effects, hell you'd get them from a sugar pill if someone told you there was a slightest risk of them.

2016 study of polichem's topical showed 70% DHT suppression in the scalp with 25% systemic circulation..... Significantly lower than oral propecia. And I'm sorry I don't want to risk my sexual and mental health, even if that risk is minimal. Knowing my luck, I would get them

 

[Breyfogle]

Results look great. Scalp serum levels were higher than taking a pill WHILE USING 1/8TH of a milligram. However, systemic absorption was down.
I can't take Propecia in oral form as I get bad sides. But I will surely take this when made available. I just wish they'd hurry up. They've been working on it for years.

 

[cratusg]

Does anyone know approximately when it will be out?

 

[INT]

By the way, the results in the study are based on twice-a-day application right? Maybe that is another reason why people don't seem too enthusiastic about this stuff...

 

[Pavi]

Results look great. Scalp serum levels were higher than taking a pill WHILE USING 1/8TH of a milligram. However, systemic absorption was down.
I can't take Propecia in oral form as I get bad sides. But I will surely take this when made available. I just wish they'd hurry up. They've been working on it for years.

If they are phase III now, they should hit market soon, right?

 

[Breyfogle]

I actually use it. Believe it or not, liquid stops more follicle (slightly more) than oral. .1 mg of finasteride reduces DHT by 80%. Oral by 75%. But I'll bet liquid does more for the temples. My right temple is growing 1 - 2 centimeters. And it's not just a few terminal hairs. My left is growing nothing.

We're talking about Polichem's formulation, which isn't out yet.
Polichem is a sophisticated composition mixed with chitosan so the molecule penetrates the skin and delivers the anti-androgen effectively.

Hasson and Wong is just finasteride crunched up and dumped in alcohol with a little propyl. Big difference.

Are you taking your own formula?

 

[Pavi]

We're talking about Polichem's formulation, which isn't out yet.
Polichem is a sophisticated composition mixed with chitosan so the molecule penetrates the skin and delivers the anti-androgen effectively.

Hasson and Wong is just finasteride crunched up and dumped in alcohol with a little propyl. Big difference.

Are you taking your own formula?

Any guess on release date? I mean they have been in phase III for about 2 months or so, so I imagine some time next year?

 

[Breyfogle]

Ask them.
http://www.polichem.com/polichem/contacts.html

 

[Swoop]

We're talking about Polichem's formulation, which isn't out yet.
Polichem is a sophisticated composition mixed with chitosan so the molecule penetrates the skin and delivers the anti-androgen effectively.

Hasson and Wong is just finasteride crunched up and dumped in alcohol with a little propyl. Big difference.

Are you taking your own formula?

Sophisticated indeed;

1) Finasteride 0.25%
2) Ethyl Alcohol 96° 55.00%
3) Propylene Glycol 5.00%
4) Hydroxypropyl Chitosan 1.00%
5) Purified water 38.75%

Only top tier chemists can do this...

On a serious note, even a kid can replicate this formulation.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

Swoop,

Why would they bother spending money on phase I, II, III trials if they are just using standard over the counter ingredients? Doesn't that mean that they won't be able to get a patent?

Further, is there not some value in them experimenting with the different weights of the ingredients?

 

[Swoop]

Swoop,

Why would they bother spending money on phase I, II, III trials if they are just using standard over the counter ingredients? Doesn't that mean that they won't be able to get a patent?

Further, is there not some value in them experimenting with the different weights of the ingredients?

Well the hydroxypropyl chitosan is the secret ingredient I think, it's a film forming agent apparently. But it's available to buy online. They already have a patent; http://www.google.com/patents/US20110183016.

Good point. Do they need to spend that much money on these clinical trials though? Doubt it man. It's not a completely new drug application right? I don't know anything about these things honestly.

In regards to the study they showed though. Remember the reduced systemic effect was shown with 0.1ml and 0.2ml of the solution. How are you going to cover your scalp with that? And where did they measure the scalp DHT levels when they applied the 0.1ml and 0.2ml? Did they measure it on the spot where they applied the stuff or did they measure scalp levels somewhere else? You want to have a effect over your whole scalp right.

 

[Pavi]

Well the hydroxypropyl chitosan is the secret ingredient I think, it's a film forming agent apparently. But it's available to buy online. They already have a patent; http://www.google.com/patents/US20110183016.

Good point. Do they need to spend that much money on these clinical trials though? Doubt it man. It's not a completely new drug application right? I don't know anything about these things honestly.

In regards to the study they showed though. Remember the reduced systemic effect was shown with 0.1ml and 0.2ml of the solution. How are you going to cover your scalp with that? And where did they measure the scalp DHT levels when they applied the 0.1ml and 0.2ml? Did they measure it on the spot where they applied the stuff or did they measure scalp levels somewhere else? You want to have a effect over your whole scalp right.

The results must be showing if they're in phase III

 

[Pavi]

No, I'm taking a formula from Murray Avenue Pharmacy. It's a scripted minoxidil (15%), with finasteride (.1ml = 1mg), and retinal A (2.5%).

You can ask a pharmacy to include finasteride in a topical?

 

[Breyfogle]

In this particular case, you need a script from Medical Wellness Center. If they approve you (a doctor prescribes it), they fax it to Murray Avenue Pharmacy.

K9. How long have you been using and do you think it's working for you?

- - - Updated - - -

...even a kid can replicate this formulation.

A kid with a sonic emulsifier who can determine and regulate particle size, zeta potential, drug loading, entrapment efficiency and morphology.

1) Preparation of nanostructured lipid carrier loaded finasteride coated stearic acid-chitosan: Finasteride was loaded, at varying
drug loadings, into NLCs which were prepared using the emulsification-ultrasonication method. The surface
of the NLCs was modified by adding chitosan conjugated with stearic acid in order to obtain a positive charge. 2) Synthesis and
characterisation of stearic acid-chitosan: The amount of stearic acid-chitosan added into NLC was optimized. The stearic acid-chitosan
conjugate was characterised using proton Nuclear Magnetic Resonance (1H NMR) spectrum and Fourier Transform Infrared
Spectroscopy (FTIR). The ninhydrin assay was used to determine the amount of conjugated group. .

 

[kmm179]

In this particular case, you need a script from Medical Wellness Center. If they approve you (a doctor prescribes it), they fax it to Murray Avenue Pharmacy.

So you can only get a script from medical wellness center? Do you have a link to there site?

 

[Swoop]

A kid with a sonic emulsifier who can determine and regulate particle size, zeta potential, drug loading, entrapment efficiency and morphology.

1) Preparation of nanostructured lipid carrier loaded finasteride coated stearic acid-chitosan: Finasteride was loaded, at varying
drug loadings, into NLCs which were prepared using the emulsification-ultrasonication method. The surface
of the NLCs was modified by adding chitosan conjugated with stearic acid in order to obtain a positive charge. 2) Synthesis and
characterisation of stearic acid-chitosan: The amount of stearic acid-chitosan added into NLC was optimized. The stearic acid-chitosan
conjugate was characterised using proton Nuclear Magnetic Resonance (1H NMR) spectrum and Fourier Transform Infrared
Spectroscopy (FTIR). The ninhydrin assay was used to determine the amount of conjugated group. .

• [0054] Preparation​
• [0055] Ethyl Alcohol, Propylene Glycol and water were mixed at room temperature. Finasteride was then added and mixed until a clear solution was obtained. Hydroxypropyl Chitosan was added as the final ingredient, and the mixture was stirred at room temperature for 24 hours or until dissolution.​
• [0056] The obtained formulation was a clear and colorless solution, homogenous in appearance even after prolonged storage. Moreover, the liquid was able to form a matte, non-sticky and elastic film, which could strongly adhere to the scalp surface.​

Easy indeed, the above is from the patent of Polichem.

Where did you get your method from? Nano formulations are hype for low MW compounds that readily pass the stratum corneum.

The study makes no sense. I can apply 0.1ml of RU-58841 and 0.1ml of minoxidil too and off course systemic absorption will be lower LOL!!!

And I bet my WHOLE scalp will benefit from that. Yeah sure, nonsense study.

 

[Pavi]

Easy indeed, the above is from the patent of Polichem.

Where did you get your method from? Nano formulations are hype for low MW compounds that readily pass the stratum corneum.

The study makes no sense. I can apply 0.1ml of RU-58841 and 0.1ml of minoxidil too and off course systemic absorption will be lower LOL!!!

And I bet my WHOLE scalp will benefit from that. Yeah sure, nonsense study.

There has to be some benefit or the product wouldn't be in phase III

 

[Swoop]

There has to be some benefit or the product wouldn't be in phase III

They didn't look at hair counts in phase 2 mate at all; http://www.controlled-trials.com/ISRCTN19708972.

They just looked at the pharmacodynamics and pharmacokinetics of the solution with total N=32 over a very short period of time (7 days of application).

4 cohorts of N=6 for 4 different dosages with the SAME concentration 0.25%. Within each of those cohorts N=2 functioned extra as placebo (total 4x N=8).

It's a very weak study overall especially when you don't know the details.

The study will run from March 2014 until May 2014.

The study was very short too. Don't confuse this with normal clinical trials.