PLEASE HELP!!! Need plan of attack! PICS INSIDE!!
- Thread starter seadooo21
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G
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That's a good hypothesis, but wouldn't you also concur it's probably time to make the switch to dutasteride?!
So what's the plan Seadooo?!
So what's the plan Seadooo?!
SkipTracer
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When purchasing software for the computer I tend to avoid running out to get newly released versions. They usually contain bugs, and as such I prefer to use a tried and true version until the new version finally sheds the bugs and has been proven.
Methinks the same strategy applies when shopping for anti-androgens.
Methinks the same strategy applies when shopping for anti-androgens.
klink
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I'd add minoxidil (foam), I've been using Propecia for five years and it's never really helped the top that much. With 6 months, you should see some results.
I don't think any of us plan on taking/using 2-3-4 things, but when it comes to the possibility of growing hair back, I find that I am willing to try stuff.
I've been using the foam for a few weeks, it's not bad.
I'm doing the big 3 (nizoral 3xweek, minoxidil 2xday, propecia1mg/day) + msm multivitamin.
I don't think any of us plan on taking/using 2-3-4 things, but when it comes to the possibility of growing hair back, I find that I am willing to try stuff.
I've been using the foam for a few weeks, it's not bad.
I'm doing the big 3 (nizoral 3xweek, minoxidil 2xday, propecia1mg/day) + msm multivitamin.
WorldofWarcraft
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SkipTracer said:When purchasing software for the computer I tend to avoid running out to get newly released versions. They usually contain bugs, and as such I prefer to use a tried and true version until the new version finally sheds the bugs and has been proven.
Methinks the same strategy applies when shopping for anti-androgens.
That is a craptastic analogy. Drugs and software have nothing to do with eachother. Dutastride is what it is. It can't be tweaked like software or it would no longer be dutastride once it is changed.
People on this forums suffer from low levels of intelligence, and cannot read a simple scientific report that clearly shows dutasride blocking more DHT than finastride. There is no mystery behind this. There is no suprises or unkowns. It's simply a fact.
dietcola
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WorldofWarcraft said:SkipTracer said:When purchasing software for the computer I tend to avoid running out to get newly released versions. They usually contain bugs, and as such I prefer to use a tried and true version until the new version finally sheds the bugs and has been proven.
Methinks the same strategy applies when shopping for anti-androgens.
That is a craptastic analogy. Drugs and software have nothing to do with eachother. Dutastride is what it is. It can't be tweaked like software or it would no longer be dutastride once it is changed.
People on this forums suffer from low levels of intelligence, and cannot read a simple scientific report that clearly shows dutasride blocking more DHT than finastride. There is no mystery behind this. There is no suprises or unkowns. It's simply a fact.
an analogy doesn't have to be made of two things that are related. that's why it's called an analogy, not a comparison. so it looks like you're the idiot.
his software analogy made perfect sense. dutas doesn't have the amount of research and success backing it that finasteride does, and compared to finasteride there are very few ppl taking it for hair loss. just because YOU are in love with it, doesn't mean the rest of us are.
G
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techprof said:
Why do you believe that the foam is a better delivery method and that the Spectral DNC nanosomes are crap?
H/B
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WorldofWarcraft said:SkipTracer said:When purchasing software for the computer I tend to avoid running out to get newly released versions. They usually contain bugs, and as such I prefer to use a tried and true version until the new version finally sheds the bugs and has been proven.
Methinks the same strategy applies when shopping for anti-androgens.
That is a craptastic analogy. Drugs and software have nothing to do with eachother. Dutastride is what it is. It can't be tweaked like software or it would no longer be dutastride once it is changed.
People on this forums suffer from low levels of intelligence, and cannot read a simple scientific report that clearly shows dutasride blocking more DHT than finastride. There is no mystery behind this. There is no suprises or unkowns. It's simply a fact.
does not mean its going to grow him anymore hair.
The dose which out performed proscar for hair counts was 2.5 mg of dutasteride, which nobody here even uses.
G
Guest
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H/B said:WorldofWarcraft said:SkipTracer said:When purchasing software for the computer I tend to avoid running out to get newly released versions. They usually contain bugs, and as such I prefer to use a tried and true version until the new version finally sheds the bugs and has been proven.
Methinks the same strategy applies when shopping for anti-androgens.
That is a craptastic analogy. Drugs and software have nothing to do with eachother. Dutastride is what it is. It can't be tweaked like software or it would no longer be dutastride once it is changed.
People on this forums suffer from low levels of intelligence, and cannot read a simple scientific report that clearly shows dutasride blocking more DHT than finastride. There is no mystery behind this. There is no suprises or unkowns. It's simply a fact.
does not mean its going to grow him anymore hair.
The dose which out performed proscar was 2.5 mg of dutasteride, which nobody here even uses.
Uh no, H/B. 0.5 mg of dutasteride outperformed 5 mg of Proscar as well. 2.5 mg of dutasteride did outperform 0.5 mg of dutasteride of course, but 0.1 mg of dutasteride a day(dutasteride every 5 days) was equivalent to 5 mg of Proscar.
I know the graph doesn't show exact numbers but if I'm not mistaken, 5 mg of Proscar a day regrew 72 hairs in the monitored area and 0.1 mg of dutasteride grew about the same amount if not the exact same, 0.5 mg of dutasteride regrew 98 hairs in the monitored area, and 2.5 mg of dutasteride regrew about 112 hairs. Those numbers may be off by a hair or two but they're pretty close to the exact numbers.
H/B
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Nice graph btw, very nifty
From the actual avodart clincal trial that was abandoned by galaxo
Expert panel assessment of global photographs
The 3-member panel assessed paired photographs of baseline versus 12 and 24 weeks of treatment in both the vertex (Table II) and frontal (Table III) regions. Their assessments were given numeric values from −3 (greatly decreased compared with baseline) to +3 (greatly increased compared with baseline), in order to permit statistical analysis. In the vertex photographs, dutasteride (0.1, 0.5, and 2.5 mg) and finasteride showed significantly greater improvement than placebo (P < .001) at both 12 and 24 weeks (Fig 2, A). Dutasteride 0.5 mg showed a significantly greater improvement than finasteride at 24 weeks (P = .026), whereas dutasteride 2.5 mg showed significantly greater improvements than finasteride at both 12 and 24 weeks (P < .001). At 24 weeks, the mean expert panel score was −0.04, 0.19, 0.47, 0.84 and 1.01 points for placebo, 0.05-, 0.1-, 0.5-, and 2.5-mg dutasteride groups, respectively, and 0.62 points for finasteride (Fig 2, A). The percentages of patients judged to have improved hair growth (slightly to greatly increased) at 24 weeks in the vertex photographs were 2%, 15%, 39%, 63%, and 78% for placebo, 0.05-, 0.1-, 0.5 and 2.5-mg dutasteride groups, respectively, and 57% for finasteride (Table II). The panel assessments of the vertex photographs correlated with changes in hair counts assessed by macrophotography (r = 0.41, P < .001).
Also....
Subjects' assessment
In general, the 0.1-, 0.5-, and 2.5-mg dutasteride groups and the finasteride group provided numerically higher self-assessment scores than the placebo group for each parameter on the self-assessment questionnaire at 12 and 24 weeks. Only the 2.5-mg dutasteride and the finasteride groups at 24 weeks were consistently significantly greater than the placebo group for all parameters on the questionnaire (P < .05) (Table IV).
Table IV.
Percentage of men with improvement in scalp hair after 24 weeks according to answers to a self-assessment questionnaire
Dutasteride (mg)
Placebo 0.05 0.1 0.5 2.5 Finasteride (5.0 mg)
Size of vertex spot 31 58 57 52 69 61
Hair loss on top of scalp 29 55 52 40 63 51
Bitemporal recession 16 28 27 18 31 39
Hair shedding 47 67 63 56 74 64
Hair quality 36 47 47 45 60 57
Overall satisfaction 42 58 57 56 72 61
Overall the finasteride user were more satisfied than the .5 dutasteride users, though marginally :shock:
Table IV.
Percentage of men with improvement in scalp hair after 24 weeks according to answers to a self-assessment questionnaire
Dutasteride (mg)
Placebo 0.05 0.1 0.5 2.5 Finasteride (5.0 mg)
Size of vertex spot 31 58 57 52 69 61
Hair loss on top of scalp 29 55 52 40 63 51
Bitemporal recession 16 28 27 18 31 39
Hair shedding 47 67 63 56 74 64
Hair quality 36 47 47 45 60 57
Overall satisfaction 42 58 57 56 72 61
me thinks there is a very good reason why they decided to scrap the idea of marketing dutasteride for hairloss
the studyhttp://www.forhair.com/hairtransplant/about1099.html
dutasteride is much more powerful, but the outcome is underwhelming compared to finasteride.
point is, it is unjustified to suggest he moves on to dutasteride.
From the actual avodart clincal trial that was abandoned by galaxo
Expert panel assessment of global photographs
The 3-member panel assessed paired photographs of baseline versus 12 and 24 weeks of treatment in both the vertex (Table II) and frontal (Table III) regions. Their assessments were given numeric values from −3 (greatly decreased compared with baseline) to +3 (greatly increased compared with baseline), in order to permit statistical analysis. In the vertex photographs, dutasteride (0.1, 0.5, and 2.5 mg) and finasteride showed significantly greater improvement than placebo (P < .001) at both 12 and 24 weeks (Fig 2, A). Dutasteride 0.5 mg showed a significantly greater improvement than finasteride at 24 weeks (P = .026), whereas dutasteride 2.5 mg showed significantly greater improvements than finasteride at both 12 and 24 weeks (P < .001). At 24 weeks, the mean expert panel score was −0.04, 0.19, 0.47, 0.84 and 1.01 points for placebo, 0.05-, 0.1-, 0.5-, and 2.5-mg dutasteride groups, respectively, and 0.62 points for finasteride (Fig 2, A). The percentages of patients judged to have improved hair growth (slightly to greatly increased) at 24 weeks in the vertex photographs were 2%, 15%, 39%, 63%, and 78% for placebo, 0.05-, 0.1-, 0.5 and 2.5-mg dutasteride groups, respectively, and 57% for finasteride (Table II). The panel assessments of the vertex photographs correlated with changes in hair counts assessed by macrophotography (r = 0.41, P < .001).
Also....
Subjects' assessment
In general, the 0.1-, 0.5-, and 2.5-mg dutasteride groups and the finasteride group provided numerically higher self-assessment scores than the placebo group for each parameter on the self-assessment questionnaire at 12 and 24 weeks. Only the 2.5-mg dutasteride and the finasteride groups at 24 weeks were consistently significantly greater than the placebo group for all parameters on the questionnaire (P < .05) (Table IV).
Table IV.
Percentage of men with improvement in scalp hair after 24 weeks according to answers to a self-assessment questionnaire
Dutasteride (mg)
Placebo 0.05 0.1 0.5 2.5 Finasteride (5.0 mg)
Size of vertex spot 31 58 57 52 69 61
Hair loss on top of scalp 29 55 52 40 63 51
Bitemporal recession 16 28 27 18 31 39
Hair shedding 47 67 63 56 74 64
Hair quality 36 47 47 45 60 57
Overall satisfaction 42 58 57 56 72 61
Overall the finasteride user were more satisfied than the .5 dutasteride users, though marginally :shock:
Table IV.
Percentage of men with improvement in scalp hair after 24 weeks according to answers to a self-assessment questionnaire
Dutasteride (mg)
Placebo 0.05 0.1 0.5 2.5 Finasteride (5.0 mg)
Size of vertex spot 31 58 57 52 69 61
Hair loss on top of scalp 29 55 52 40 63 51
Bitemporal recession 16 28 27 18 31 39
Hair shedding 47 67 63 56 74 64
Hair quality 36 47 47 45 60 57
Overall satisfaction 42 58 57 56 72 61
me thinks there is a very good reason why they decided to scrap the idea of marketing dutasteride for hairloss
the studyhttp://www.forhair.com/hairtransplant/about1099.html
dutasteride is much more powerful, but the outcome is underwhelming compared to finasteride.
point is, it is unjustified to suggest he moves on to dutasteride.
G
Guest
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not my point, h/b. you claimed that finasteride outperformed 0.5 mg dutasteride and you are wrong. satisfaction numbers mean nothing. hair count is what is important and 0.5 mg dutasteride regrew more hair than 5 mg finasteride.
randomwalk
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I'm not sure if results after 12 or 24 weeks really show the benefits of dutasteride since it takes around 5 months or so until you reach steady state, wich if I understood that right is the point when maximum dht reduction is reached. so if it takes 5 month to reach that point and you look at results after 12 and 24 weeks you have not reached steady state or only reached it for a couple of weeks, so I guess if they looked at results after maybe 48 weeks the benefits of dutasteride over finasteride would have been more impressive.
G
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Guest
H/B said:
well you were still wrong and then tried to cop out twice lol. it's not very underwhelming. these drugs have always been more about maintenance than regrowth and dutasteride provides superior maintenance.
G
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Guest
Go for dutasteride and use rogaine foam!