Please Help me choose a Regime

[barcafan]

Hey what's up guys, i am another unfortunate early sufferer of male pattern baldness.

Backround info:

Age - 18
Height - 5'11
Weight - 160

Brother still Norwood 1.5-2 @ 24 with good hair

Daddy was probably a Norwood 6 @ 25 ,his brother is like a Norwood 5 right now at 50, his dad is also bald not sure since when though

Mother's dad died at 65 around norwood 4 i'd say, so not too bad. Her brother is like a norwood 3.5 @ 40. She has good hair.
I am probably around a norwood 2 - 2.5 BUT i have Serious side thinning and some temple reccesion.

Started loosing hair from sides / temples / a little from back of head @ 16 as shown:

The blue represents the thinning, it's not as patchy as shown in the picture BUT the sides (Area above sideburns) have definite thinning, as well as the temples (Not as much as sides) and the back of my head (the corners that are just a bit above the neck).

Now keep in mind i live in canada and i dont really have much money to burn. I can get propecia and 5% minoxidil for free since i get reimbursed for any costs incurred by prescription medicine.

I am currenlty using 2% minoxidil 2x a day which i will trash for some 5% minoxidil 2x a day.

I am VERY scared about using propecia because people's side effect stories frankly scare the SH*T out of me!. I am still 18 and probably growing (If not externally then internally) and i really dont want to mess anything up before i am fully developed.


Would it be safe to use .5 MG of propecia instead of the full 1 mg dose? Any other suggestions for treatment? I'll post pics ASAP but this crap is really killing me because i am so damn concerned about my hair that i cant go out without it looking as good as it can, i feel like a damn woman (LOL).

Please feel free to ask ANY questions if need be. Thanks in advance guys!

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Update : Pictures
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http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/3663/hairlineflashyr9.jpg - Hair line

http://img275.imageshack.us/img275/130/hairlinetopflashrl3.jpg - Hair line Top

http://img275.imageshack.us/img275/5982/leftsideflashpx0.jpg - Left side

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/8360/rightsideflashbf6.jpg - Right side

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/7868/righttempleflashll4.jpg - Right temple (bad)

http://img275.imageshack.us/img275/1723/topflashoq7.jpg - Top of Head

http://img275.imageshack.us/img275/8165/topnoflashti4.jpg - Top front NO FLASH





Basically As you can see, My right temple is DESTROYED. I dont think the top of my head is thinning (Yet) it just has a thin appearance because i wear pretty tight headphones for extended periods of time.

 

[Johnny24601]

re:

First of all finasteride use has been documented to be "safe" at 1 mg. Typically even those who do get sides, they either go away quickly and in all cases subside after stopping use of the drug.
I cannot comment on growth issues with finasteride use.
I would suggest using 5% minoxidil and finasteride.

 

[Guest]

Not to be too blunt but it sounds like you have awful genetics. Do you have any direct relatives who aren't suffering from some solid male pattern baldness? NW4 in the 60s is not awful but it's not fantastic either.

If you were losing hair at 16 it looks like you are headed right for NW6 land.

 

[barcafan]

Well maybe my grandfather was a 3, still had like a widows peak and a thin crown.

Those are the members of my family that i know have genetic hair loss, not sure about others. Like i said, my bro isnt showing any signs and he's 5 1/2 years older than me....

And also all the bald/thinning members of my family always had pretty fine hair, mine quite coarse in comparison. And almost all of them started hairloss on the vertex or crown, unlike me.

If i could grow back hair to like a Norwood 1.5 and keep it that way for 5-10 years, hell id be happy.

Update : Added some pictures.

 

[Sean68]

hi mate i cant really comment on the implications of using finasteride at such
a young age either, i started when i was 23 and had no sides but id be
reluctant to use it at your age too and if it really worries you then there are other options like topical antiandrogens. theres a lot of them available
and many people use purely topical regimens if you have a look through these boards. id certainly stick with the minoxidil as its been the most helpful thing in my regimen. i can see how receeding early would be a real bummer but if its any consolation you do look like you can pull the look off.

 

[barcafan]

Thanks for the reply; Yeah i am quite reluctant to use internal treatments, maybe i'll just pick up a subscription and save it or something...

can you reccomend any topical Anti androgen treatments? (Besides nizoral as i will probably pick up a few bottles). I read about making home made 5% azelaic acid mixed with minoxidil and its quite potent (anti androgen on scalp only). Can anyone comment on that?

 

[Guest]

dont count on the mythical amazing (OMG DR LEE IS THE BESTEST) azelaic acid doing anything for you. you will most likely continue to lose hair if the only thing you are on is minoxidil with azelaic acid.

 

[barcafan]

How do you know that Azelic acid is completely useless? Have you tried it yourself or are you just speculating based on other peoples complaints or testemonials?.I am not going to take propecia. I am positive that there has to be topical agents that have anti DHT properties that are significant enough to help with male pattern baldness and i thought that azelaic acid was one of them.

 

[The Gardener]

I don't know about the Azelaic Acid, but I have a minoxidil only regimen and I have solid results.

 

[Guest]

How do you know that Azelic acid is completely useless? Have you tried it yourself or are you just speculating based on other peoples complaints or testemonials?.I am not going to take propecia. I am positive that there has to be topical agents that have anti DHT properties that are significant enough to help with male pattern baldness and i thought that azelaic acid was one of them.

there's no studies backing it up. if you want to use snake oil because you are too scared to take the internals then that is your prerogative. but please don't come back complaining about being bald. use a proven treatment if you want to keep your hair. if you want to use the snake oil in conjunction with propecia or whatever then that's fine, but if you go it along with the snake oil then you're asking for trouble.

 

[barcafan]

First of all, stop saying snake oil, its annoying. (Actually you're wrong, there are studies on the benefical factors of AA). Second, you dont know that its snake oil, your only basis is that its an 'unproven' treatment ('Unproven' treatments seem quite stigmatized in the western world it seems) . You shouldnt be so quick to dismiss an 'unproven' treatment, after all what is 'proven'? Its when a company spends thousands or millions of dollars to get an FDA approval with a product that they can pattend to make $$.

If Azaelic acid were completely useless, then why would doctors such as Dr. Nasser Razack, Dr. Proctor, Dr. Lee (The latter of which are quite renowned for their hairloss treatment programs) be including it in their treatments? You're getting results on dutasteride and that's fine, but i think you're a little too overzealous in your posts. You call me scared for taking internals and you're right, i am scared and my reason for that isn't unfounded.

You on the other hand ARE taking internals (One in particular that is reccomended for BPH, mind you), but at what price? You say you havent been having sides for 3+ months but you still dont know what's going to happen to you in 5 or 10 years from taking these drugs. I also take offense to your condescending manner in implying that you're 100% right and im 100%wrong.

Dont take me the wrong way i don't have anything against you but from what i see, the same doesn't hold true for you for some reason.


Anyway i think i will focus my energy on treating my hairloss and, contrary to what you beleive, i wont be a complainer if i go bald.

I'll fine tune a regimen WITHOUT internals and post progress.

More suggestions are appreaciated.

 

[Guest]

what dr proctor treatment includes azelaic acid?

show me one study that proves hair benefits from AA.

all i said was that i hope we dont hear complaints from you down the road about losing your hair when you refused to get on proven steps. dutasteride is irrelevant. propecia is fda approved for hair loss. dutasteride is a stronger 5 ar inhibitor than finasteride, but i'm not talking about dutasteride.

being scared to take an fda approved drug for the reason that you're on this board is quite ridiculous.

 

[barcafan]

Oops i must have misread, dr.proctor doesnt use it in his treatment options, im pretty sure dr Lee alludes to a study on his website but his website seems like its down for me.

The point im trying to make is not specific to azaelic acid but to any 'unproven' treatment that one is thinking of using. If a treatment is unproven it doesnt mean it will not work for sure!!! i will try to be living testemony to that (i hope).

And also, wasnt Theres some FDA approved drug that merck produduced that had extremely adverse cardiovascular ramifications? I Believe it was bioxx or vioxx or something like that. And im quite sure that drug was considered 'safe' as well.

 

[Guest]

oh yes vioxx. well i could point to avacor as proof that azelaic acid doesnt work either. both snake oils right? no ill point to the fact that you cant come up with a study that proves it. i asked for one, where is it?

I'll just post one of Bryan's great responses to the question "Why do so many people not believe that azelaic acid can inhibit DHT?"

Probably because of the following two facts which I've discussed several times:

1) The complete lack of any POSITIVE in vivo evidence. I don't know of a single experiment ever done with living animals (either humans or laboratory animals) where topical azelaic acid was proved directly to reduce DHT, or even had any effects that could be reasonably interpreted as possibly being a sign of reduced DHT.

2) The existence of some NEGATIVE in vivo evidence, which could be interpreted as evidence against the idea that DHT was being reduced. Those are studies in both humans and laboratory animals in which topical azelaic acid had no effect on the production of sebum (citations available, on request). The reduction of sebum would be an expected result, if DHT were really being reduced.

Such a consistent picture (the lack of POSITIVE evidence, and the existence of some NEGATIVE evidence) is quite damning for azelaic acid, in my opinion.

Bryan

now of course you are right that just because it's unproven doesn't mean that it is impossible for it to work. but why on earth would you risk your hair to try out some unproven treatments when you could use the proven ones?

there are plenty of people on here and other sites who tried worthless treatments, some containing azelaic acid, before getting on the proven drugs. most of them say that they wish they had started the proven treatments earlier because they would have more hair.

 

[barcafan]

I dont know maybe im in the wrong place...I dont seem to be caring enough about my hairloss to "Risk" using propecia to maintain my hair. I might give it a shot when im 21 but my doctor advised against it (im 18) so i guess we'll just see where other treatments lead me for the time being.

 

[Guest]

barcafan this website revolves around proven treatments like propecia, avodart, minoxidil, nizoral, etc. which is not to say that you aren't welcome here, because you are, but don't expect to find many people sympathetic to your postings.

there are a lot of baldy naturalist forums where i'm sure you can also find plenty of people who you can talk with who were also scared to take propecia. uncoincidentally, many are bald.

 

[barcafan]

alright guess we'll just see what happens, oh and i'll make a promise to myself as of this moment to not cry over being bald in the case that i do lose all my hair from not taking propecia.

 

[Luther007]

I started taking finasteride when I was 19 and I swear to God I started growing tits. So I quit and just used Xandrox (Dr. Lee) and Nizoral. I maintained my hair (NW2) pretty good for a couple of years and then started finasteride again when I was 21. Didn't notice the lumps under my nipples anymore so I've stayed on it since (will be 23 next month). Also switched from Xandrox to generic Minoxidil 5% since I don't think there's much of a difference. So far so good!

 

[Kreskin2007]

barcafan this website revolves around proven treatments like propecia, avodart, minoxidil, nizoral, etc. which is not to say that you aren't welcome here, because you are, but don't expect to find many people sympathetic to your postings.

there are a lot of baldy naturalist forums where i'm sure you can also find plenty of people who you can talk with who were also scared to take propecia. uncoincidentally, many are bald.

i just found this website after using avacor for a long period of time and being totally happy with the results. however, i am confused by a lot of your statements. you keep stressing "proven" treatments like minoxidil. Well, using simple logic:

minoxidil is a proven treatment for hair
avacor is a product that contains minoxidil
therefore, isnt avacor a proven treatment for hair?

also, in regards to your argument in these forums that you would be better off purchasing the individual ingredients yourself - sure, you could do that. but i for one have NO IDEA in what amounts these ingredients are healthy for me. for me, products like avacor save me a ton of stress. for example, i know that I can purchase all the components of a computer and build the damn thing myself for a cheaper price than by calling Dell and purchasing a new, already built and configured desktop. But, in purchasing the seperate pieces of the computer, there is a risk i take that I will screw something up and break/cost myself even more money than I would have in buying directly from Dell.

Products like Avacor and Dell computers save people time and effort. If minoxidil works, there is no reason for you to be saying that Avacor doesnt because the two are basically the same thing.

 

[Guest]

kreskin, don't be ridiculous.

avacor costs like 5 times as much as plain minoxidil and isn't any more effective. that's why it's a scam. we also don't know if the effect of the minoxidil in avacor is blunted by the other sh*t they put in it.

A 12 month supply of avacor is like 500 bucks. You can get a year's supply of generic rogaine for like 80 at a local store. you can get a year's supply of new Rogaine foam for 150.