Please explain how shedding is a sign propecia is working.
- Thread starter mgdpublic
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mgdpublic said:
There are a number of theories on this. Check out http://www.minoxidil for one of them.
I guess the question might also be, why is it important. It seems that some people shed after starting propecia and some don't. There does not seem to be any signficance to this as far as I can make out.
Good luck.
HairlossTalk
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Re: Please explain how shedding is a sign propecia is workin
In the more complicated form, this type of effect is the result of a synchronization of the follicle cycles that seems to be commonly seen with DHT inhibiting treatments. Hair can be shocked into growth with stimulants like steroid injections for alopecia areata patients, or agitating agents applied to the skin, etc... so hair is by nature very sensitive to agitation and it can go dormant or come out of dormancy with the right triggers.
Shedding is not hair loss. Its just considered a new beginning where all those hairs in the process of miniaturization (or a larger number of them) are free'd from the effects of DHT. The follicles response is to go dormant and start new. Dormancy lasts about 2-5 months, and at around the 6 month mark cycles back into growth.
:smoke: :smoke: :smoke: :smoke:
In the form of a romper room bill cosby with crayons way of describing it, the scared little hair is fighting for its life as the big bad DHT monster grips it around the neck trying to choke the life out of it! Then superhero finasteride comes along and punches DHT in the face, and throws it out of the follicle area. The poor little hair is so distraught that it FAINTS!!! and falls out. Later on that hair begins to grow again, only to find no big bad DHT monster around ... and it grows in healthier and happier and longer and thicker than before.
:hairy: :hairy: :hairy: :hairy:
HairLossTalk.com
In the simple form the logic is, Propecia is a hair loss treatment, and if you're seeing any effects from it, you're probably "responding" to it.mgdpublic said:
In the more complicated form, this type of effect is the result of a synchronization of the follicle cycles that seems to be commonly seen with DHT inhibiting treatments. Hair can be shocked into growth with stimulants like steroid injections for alopecia areata patients, or agitating agents applied to the skin, etc... so hair is by nature very sensitive to agitation and it can go dormant or come out of dormancy with the right triggers.
Shedding is not hair loss. Its just considered a new beginning where all those hairs in the process of miniaturization (or a larger number of them) are free'd from the effects of DHT. The follicles response is to go dormant and start new. Dormancy lasts about 2-5 months, and at around the 6 month mark cycles back into growth.
:smoke: :smoke: :smoke: :smoke:
In the form of a romper room bill cosby with crayons way of describing it, the scared little hair is fighting for its life as the big bad DHT monster grips it around the neck trying to choke the life out of it! Then superhero finasteride comes along and punches DHT in the face, and throws it out of the follicle area. The poor little hair is so distraught that it FAINTS!!! and falls out. Later on that hair begins to grow again, only to find no big bad DHT monster around ... and it grows in healthier and happier and longer and thicker than before.
:hairy: :hairy: :hairy: :hairy:
HairLossTalk.com
Grantspots
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Re: Please explain how shedding is a sign propecia is workin
Another metaphoric example which happened to me last week. Grabbed a lizzard by the tail (me=DHT) (tail=hair follicle) tail fell off in my hand and lizzard scampered away, only to eventually grow another, stronger one.
jerry grant
Another metaphoric example which happened to me last week. Grabbed a lizzard by the tail (me=DHT) (tail=hair follicle) tail fell off in my hand and lizzard scampered away, only to eventually grow another, stronger one.
jerry grant
bombscience
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Re: Please explain how shedding is a sign propecia is workin
This is actually one of the best posts ever. You just cleared up a whole issue I have with the concept of dormancy.
HairlossTalk said:
This is actually one of the best posts ever. You just cleared up a whole issue I have with the concept of dormancy.
HairLossTalk.com
HairLossTalk.com, thanks for the explanation!! I've been wondering how long hair is dormant after shedding. The one question that still isn't being answered is how come I'm shedding soo many thick healthy terminal hairs? It seems like these would be the ones not affected by DHT and wouldn't shed. Any Info?
Thanks,
Joe
HairLossTalk.com, thanks for the explanation!! I've been wondering how long hair is dormant after shedding. The one question that still isn't being answered is how come I'm shedding soo many thick healthy terminal hairs? It seems like these would be the ones not affected by DHT and wouldn't shed. Any Info?
Thanks,
Joe
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All hairs shed, Joe, even healthy ones, with or without treatment.
Besides I am guessing that some of the smaller ones go unnoticed and/or make it down the drain rather than collecting.
Besides I am guessing that some of the smaller ones go unnoticed and/or make it down the drain rather than collecting.
Hey
All hair does go through cycles, but I don't understand why thick healthy terminal hairs would have a synchronizing shed do to a much lower DHT level caused by taking Finestride (ie. a finestride induced shed). It seems that a finestride induced shed would only affect the hairs that are at some point in the miniturization process.
That's what's not adding up. HairLossTalk.com can you help us out?
All hair does go through cycles, but I don't understand why thick healthy terminal hairs would have a synchronizing shed do to a much lower DHT level caused by taking Finestride (ie. a finestride induced shed). It seems that a finestride induced shed would only affect the hairs that are at some point in the miniturization process.
That's what's not adding up. HairLossTalk.com can you help us out?
ANother thing that could be happening is that you are just noticing the big ones because they stand out and, although they are in the midst of their own, natural shed, you fear they may be falling out as a result of the drug.. In all actuality, you would not really know if a hair is in the miniaturization process anyway since it would be a function of the past thickness of the hair and not just the current thickness. Basically, just because the hair in follice A is bigger than follicle B doesn't mean that follicle A hair is not getting thinner, just that it is thicker than follicle B's hair, which may be further along in the miniaturization process.
i hope that shedding thick hairs is normal. 85% of the hairs i shed are big
heres my situation:
started finasteride about 7 months ago.
about 2 months ago, hair started falling out much much faster, a very noticeable difference.
Most of you would assume that it is a shed im going through, but what makes me worry is this: My twin brother started losing hair 2 years ago, and he was losing it by the handfuls. I am just starting to grow a bit of facial hair on my chin, at the same time hair is falling out faster.
Basically, what i believe is happening to me is either a real good thing, or a real bad thing, and bad things usually are the way it goes with me.
heres my situation:
started finasteride about 7 months ago.
about 2 months ago, hair started falling out much much faster, a very noticeable difference.
Most of you would assume that it is a shed im going through, but what makes me worry is this: My twin brother started losing hair 2 years ago, and he was losing it by the handfuls. I am just starting to grow a bit of facial hair on my chin, at the same time hair is falling out faster.
Basically, what i believe is happening to me is either a real good thing, or a real bad thing, and bad things usually are the way it goes with me.
HairlossTalk
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Re: Hey
The first hairs you see thinning and dying on the hairline at, say, age 25 very possibly actually started the miniaturization process way back when you were guzzling beer and scoring with chicks in college at age 20.
In short, a DHT afflicted hair can look healthy for a long long time before the naked eye identifies it as one. Its still slowly losing its girth and length and pigmentation.
HairLossTalk.com
Sure, the answer to this one is easy. It takes many many years and many many growth and dormancy cycles for strong long hairs to become thin weak hairs. They're still technically "DHT afflicted follicles" though.joe_mama said:
The first hairs you see thinning and dying on the hairline at, say, age 25 very possibly actually started the miniaturization process way back when you were guzzling beer and scoring with chicks in college at age 20.
In short, a DHT afflicted hair can look healthy for a long long time before the naked eye identifies it as one. Its still slowly losing its girth and length and pigmentation.
HairLossTalk.com
getting_impatient!!!
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Only read the last couple posts......
So, when a good looking hair falls out it doesn't mean Propecia isn't working. Actually that it could be either natural fallout or Propecia working?
So what about after a little over a year I am still seeing strong/good looking hairs fall out? Are there many cycles we will go through? It seems like the past month and a half I have noticed more fallout than usual. I notice more in the drain or on my hands after shampooing.
I stopped using Rogaine at the beginning like you said I should and wait out the Propecia coupled with Nizoral. I feel maintained until recent. But I can see my scalp (or at least I feel like I can) a lot easier as of late. Should I start looking into a regrowth stimulant again?
So, when a good looking hair falls out it doesn't mean Propecia isn't working. Actually that it could be either natural fallout or Propecia working?
So what about after a little over a year I am still seeing strong/good looking hairs fall out? Are there many cycles we will go through? It seems like the past month and a half I have noticed more fallout than usual. I notice more in the drain or on my hands after shampooing.
I stopped using Rogaine at the beginning like you said I should and wait out the Propecia coupled with Nizoral. I feel maintained until recent. But I can see my scalp (or at least I feel like I can) a lot easier as of late. Should I start looking into a regrowth stimulant again?
HairlossTalk
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Re: Only read the last couple posts......
HairLossTalk.com
It means its most likely that those good looking hairs were beginning to be afflicted by DHT anyways.getting_impatient!!! said:
All hairs cycle into dormancy. Shedding is singled out because its a larger number of hairs entering dormancy at one time. Ever since you were born you lost strong good looking hairs. Its a law of nature that all hairs grow and fall out, go dormant, and cycle back into growth again, DHT afflicted or not.getting_impatient said:
Not until you've given Propecia and Nizoral at least 8 months to a year to work. Ride out the sheds, we've all been thru 'em.getting_impatient said:
HairLossTalk.com
HairlossTalk
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zak84 said:
Not really, its fairly easy to determine.
If you just started a treatment like Rogaine or Propecia that have a reputation for causing shedding during the first 4 months, and you've noticed a significantly larger # of hairs in the drain, on your pillow, and in the bathroom floor, then you can put 2 and 2 together and realize you're shedding.
Dormancy that occurs from normal hair cycles doesn't happen in mass amounts, usually.
HairLossTalk.com
My 2 cents:
I have a lot of friends who have been on finasteride for 4+ years and some of them (not all of them) still encounter sheds -- usually at 6 or 12 month intervals. These people are the ones that I think (from a visual standpoint) are responding best to the drug.
I had a huge shed in the summer of '02 (at exactly my 24 month mark).
D.
I have a lot of friends who have been on finasteride for 4+ years and some of them (not all of them) still encounter sheds -- usually at 6 or 12 month intervals. These people are the ones that I think (from a visual standpoint) are responding best to the drug.
I had a huge shed in the summer of '02 (at exactly my 24 month mark).
D.
Hey
Drinkrum, do your friends ever post here? Can you tell us a little about their progress, side-effects, thorughts....yada, yada. There aren't that many people here that have been on finestride for years and it would be great to hear more info.
Thanks,
Joe
Drinkrum, do your friends ever post here? Can you tell us a little about their progress, side-effects, thorughts....yada, yada. There aren't that many people here that have been on finestride for years and it would be great to hear more info.
Thanks,
Joe