PFS: your current protocols for recovery

[Prop]

I like to know what are your personal protocols to counteract persistent sides from finasteride.

in very synthetic way, just for a fast outlook

1) integrators (doses and for how long)
2) drugs (doses and for how long)
3) diet
4) results (stable-fluctuating)

 

[Joe-1991]

So far I have tried:

. Proviron for a week
. Pregnenolone for 2 weeks
. High dose zinc
. Super dose vitamin D

I will soon be trying:

. Armour thyroid
. Pregnenolone
. High dose zinc

 

[Mens Rea]

So far I have tried:

. Proviron for a week
. Pregnenolone for 2 weeks
. High dose zinc
. Super dose vitamin D

I will soon be trying:

. Armour thyroid
. Pregnenolone
. High dose zinc

Don't go too high. Toxicity. Also it depletes your copper levels too much.

You just using the life-flo preg?

 

[Joe-1991]

Yep, life flo, can't say it has done much at all.

 

[Mens Rea]

It's so weak, that's why. The guys on ATM are using 10% transdermals. 10 times stronger and probably better absorption.

Propecia et al....have a look at this:

http://ejaculatoryanhedonia.com/index.p ... opic=241.0

Royal Jelly.


Looks bloody interesting!!


http://www.ergo-log.com/royaljelly.html

 

[Prop]

Propecia et al....have a look at this:

Royal Jelly

mmm, i tried ten days box but i didn't notice impro, maybe 'll try again
for longer time

actually i'm on "hi dose" pollen

i like also honey ... :whistle:

gosh, i'm tranforming in a big bee :woot:

 

[Prop]

Recently
for 3 months

broccoli treatment first month (45 days)

Vit E: 1500 UI daily first month
i dropped the dose to 800 2nd month

Vit D 800 UI daily first month

quercetin 600 mg daily last 2 months
--------------------------------------------
after that
for 1 month

Bromelain 100mg (2 pills daily for 1 month)

L arginyne 4 g (2 vial daily for 1 month)

pollen (2 spoons daily 1 month)
----------------------------------------------

in the past lot of antiobio (mainly cipro) and zinc

i can say that in these last 6 months i had noticeable improvements, but far
from total real recovery.

Analysing my simptoms, ther's one that bother me since my crash
a sovrapubic sense of pressure that makes the area less sensible.

i had a transrectal echo, results soon, but the echographer immediately said to me that prostate looks good sauf some little calcifications that are "normal"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Two raw hypothesis on fina damages

1)bowel inflamation
i read that there r possible relation with inflamation on the prostate area caused by contiguity
Anyone had a bowel investigation?

2) cavernal nerve damage
Dr traish theorized this possibility
anyone knows how to detect it? what tests?
Evoked potentials?


there's a protein that could heal it (don't mind the name of that protein :whistle: )

http://www.news-medical.net/news/201006 ... earch.aspx

 

[Prop]

So far I have tried:


. Super dose vitamin D

you noticed some improvement with D vit?

why armour thyroid ?

 

[Ende]

I'm using testosterone. I've been on TRT for a year now - without a doctors supervision, but with regular blood tests after the norwegian board of health supervision forced my GP to give me a blood test whenever I need them. I'm working on the testosterone/estrogen ratio, and my symptoms have been fluctuating according to changes in treatment. I've had problems stabilizing the condition. I'm in more or less control of my libido now, but I'm still suffering from ED - most likely due to atrophied penile muscles, so I'm doing kegel exercises regularly.

Other essential tools I've been using are Arimidex, Andractim and Dostinex.
I'm currently using Anavar once a day as well, to get more results from kegel exercises. This steroid is hepatotoxic, so I'll only use it for another month - a total of 2 months.

My estrogen level is currently a little low in relation to the androgen levels, and I'm waiting for it to raise. I've just reduced my TRT dose from 100 mg Telogen Effluvium once a week to approximately 35 mg Telogen Effluvium twice a week - to reduce the androgen levels a bit, and obtain more stable blood levels. According to my calculations, 35 mg Telogen Effluvium twice a week, should give me a testosterone level of around 25 nmol/l before the next injection. That's a good value.

 

[Wuffer]

I saw this post on Dr. Crislers forum. Have you guys read this, and what you do you think? A lot of what this guy is saying makes sense to me. I believe he posted this on propeciahelp as well, but I can't find the thread. I'm making the font small because it's such a long post!



Well, i am not going to get into much details because its too difficult to persuade ppl that have jumped on the wrong bandwagon and keep loosing track after using finasteride.

The problem is that we tended to associate finasteride related mess solely and mostly with hormonal issues, which has been proven very wrong in the end at least for me and many others who have found this Doctor.

I am in a group of ppl that have ended up to being treated by a specialist andrologist/urologist who just came back to Greece from France.

For many years i thought my problems were directly related to my bad hormonal ratios and low 5-ar II activity. I used up varying amounts of Testosterone, dihydrotestosterone, anti-estrogens, SERMS, HcG injections, vitamins, herbs you name it.

Well guess what,
Finasteride was just the trigger. I examined my genital system with trans-rectal ultrasound and saw an enormous amount of inflammation in my spermatic vesicles, prostate and surrounding ejaculatory ducts.
I searched the cause of this inflammation checked my prostatic fluids in a specialized lab and it proved to be very high activity of intracellular staphylococcus aureus combined with chlamydia and other pathogens which play a much smaller role in the whole genital system mess.

What did finasteride do to me (and to many others which are being currently treated by this doctor). Well, in simple words it signaled the initiation of spreading of the minimal or slowly growing inflammation outside of a previously localized inflammed area.

That is in simple english, i was in the initial stages of prostatitis which would show up after twenty to thirty years and finasteride triggered a cascade of reactions that grew this out of the previously controlled box.

So ppl who are carrying prostatic/genital infections that are in their very early stages and don't show symptoms all they get from finasteride is an expanding/blowing up of their symptoms which would manifest in many years or decades to come if they didn't use the drug.

I iniitally blamed my hormones (low adrenal, low testosterone, low dht outuput) for my post-finasteride mess, well now it turns out that all this accounts to a very very very low extend or is completely irrelevant.

Simple treatment 4 years ago that i didn't pay any attention to. I took hydrocortisone and ciproxin and in two days my penis was back to its normal length and erections were perfect. I let this fact pass by back then thinking that it was a fluke and it couldn't be so easy to treat!!

Today when i say my inflammation in my prostate and genitals i couldn't believe that all them years i was harboring an ongoing pathogenic state with several potentially harmful microbes and making it more and more potent by using hormones and vitamins.

This andrologist has given finasteride to more than 3000 patients in his medical experience. He stated clearly that the ones that came back to him with problems are the ones that had pathogenic microbes in their prostate and surrounding area and didn't know it.

Symptoms that his patients with prolonged prostatitis problems have (both users of finasteride and non-users) and have been treated

* numbness of penis
* decrease in size of testicles
* disconnection of brain-genital organs
* decrease in erectile strength, size of penis
* inability to hold an erection
* no morning erections
* pain in perineum
* decrease in libido and no more sexual fantasies
* inability to get visually stimulated
* depression
* fatigue
* alcohol increasing symptoms/deteriorating libido
etc etc etc etc

do some of them ring a bell?

he told me that within a few weeks/months (depending on pathogens) of treating prostatitis and rest of genital inflammation all those symptoms will be gone, and i have talked to more than twenty of his patients that have recovered completely, and i mean COMPLETELY

Unfortunately i have come in way too late, i let my testicles atrophy all those years thinking it was some hormonal issue messing me up!!!
but still there is some chance. Because i have used up dozens of hormones, prohormones, vitamins and all sorts of other crap that was useless ( i went to sweden, belgium, spain and to some of the best hormonal specialists to get nothing out of it and to end up being diagnosed as having severe inflammation in my genital track)

All types of chronic prostatitis (post finasteride) is caused by bacteria, gram negative and positive and in some cases atypical. These bacteria get trapped into creating biofilms inside the prostate and slowly calcifications develop, the prostate capsule becomes very strong and there is a complete inability of antibiotics to pass through and treat. YOu need to break down the inflammatory loci and the calcifications with pressure. I initially felt great pain, literally a freaking feeling of dying when pressure was applied but now my prostate is much more soft and the inflammation is going down. I will post my ultrasounds to see by your self when im done.

The treatment consists of

*strong pressure massages to break done prostatic calcifications and free up intracellular pathogens from their created biofilms
*double or triple antibiotic therapy for several weeks (that changes if need) whilst the massages are taking place
*diet/refrain from all sorts of crap that increase the inflammatory markers

special concern for people affected with enterococci and staphyloccoci aureus. These groups of patients are the hardest to treat because of inherent resistance of those gram-pos bacteria to older quinolones (other drugs are not even close to helpful in treating them pathogens). Doctor is running a research program nowadays with volunteers who want to test new mixtures of quinolone and mycin drugs.

Unfortunately all sort of hormonal treatments will fail in post-finasteride patients because of the simple fact that the inflammatory areas have damaged the portions of the prostate and the rest of the genital system that serve as areas of T to dht conversion, and all sorts of inflammatory markers are sky-rocketing inside and around your genital area so basically treating with hormones only makes situation worse. Cortisol and other anti-inflammatories could help a bit but it is very difficult for it to reach to the inner layers of the prostatic stroma so it will still not alleviate any of the damage if it is not combined with powerful antibiotics and pressure massages.

Whether you have or you don't have any prostatic symptoms (i had almost none- all mine where sexual related) find a Doctor or a hospital that can perform trans-rectal ultrasound ASAP. Even a slight increase in your prostate size from 12-13 cc to say 15 is capable of keeping your sex life at bay and damaging your genitals and HPA slowly but steadily. I have talked and seen ultrasound of young ppl 20 to 25 years old that had marginal prostatic inflammation - just a few loci here and there- and their penis was numb dead, they couldn't get an erection NO MATTER WHAT, their brain was dead sexually. Don't ask me how this is possible it just IS, unfortunately, and in 95% of the patients it is treatable. In the rest it is harder because of mutating pathogens like staph, corynebacteria and enterorococci but these will soon be completely treatable too.

I will come back to write some more when i m done with my treatment as i am awaiting a new drug to come from japan to treat resistant staph infections.

Regards, G

 

[Mens Rea]

Yep, my endo is lining a prostate MRI up for me.

 

[Ende]

My symptoms have improved with hormonal treatment. I've had some very good days since january!! However, I think I have some issues with my prostate. I've had problems since I was a little child. I have to urinate very often, and it's traces of blood in my urine, which none of the doctors understand where's coming from. I think the prostate is the only part that hasn't been checked! - so this can't be ruled out in my case, although I repeat - hormonal treatment has improved my symptoms greatly. It takes time to balance the system.

 

[Mens Rea]

My symptoms have improved with hormonal treatment. I've had some very good days since january!! However, I think I have some issues with my prostate. I've had problems since I was a little child. I have to urinate very often, and it's traces of blood in my urine, which none of the doctors understand where's coming from. I think the prostate is the only part that hasn't been checked! - so this can't be ruled out in my case, although I repeat - hormonal treatment has improved my symptoms greatly. It takes time to balance the system.

This is no fluke.

It's a hormoanl imbalance (thanks to finasteride) that can cause these problems. The body can in many cases correct itself when these imbalances are redressed.

 

[Wuffer]

Chronic prostatitis could cause hormonal problems as well though, couldn't it? This could explain why hormonal supplements would relieve the symptoms, but only during use, and why the problems return when TRT is stopped.

Keep us all updated on how that MRI goes, Mens Rea. A deep tissue prostate massage sounds painful though, but it would be just fantastic if what this guy was saying is true and it could be treated.

Extremely personal question: have you felt your prostate before and after finasteride, and do you notice any difference? You would think you could probably feel these calcifications with your finger, and any pressure would cause some real pain.

 

[Prop]

i'm the one that believe in a prostatocentric approach to PFS

For genital sides,
in my opinion the finasteride induced cell apoptosis is mainly involved in numbness/lack of orgasm.
Also a pudendal nerve damage is possible as Dott Traish stated
(if i remember well)

Bus as we know, not all people bodies can react in the same way to finasteride

 

[Prop]

Propecia et al....have a look at this:


Royal Jelly.


Looks bloody interesting!!


http://www.ergo-log.com/royaljelly.html

mens, now i'll try pure and fresh jelly from a beekeeper

i hope will be better in effetcts than the market jelly i tried before

but god, it's damn expensive

 

[Mens Rea]

Propecia et al....have a look at this:


Royal Jelly.


Looks bloody interesting!!


http://www.ergo-log.com/royaljelly.html

mens, now i'll try pure and fresh jelly from a beekeeper

i hope will be better in effetcts than the market jelly i tried before

but god, it's damn expensive

Yeah very expensive.

It's serious stuff though. Wish i was fully healthy, i reckon a normal (optimal) person taking some of the natural stuff i've been dabbling with would feel like a Lord after taking stuff like this.

Mine should be here today, will report any findings. Preg and T3 is coming coming though nothing else is really helping.

 

[Prop]

hey, i have seen that "prostate approach" is going to be a trend on PH
what do u think?

two schools of thought
the hormon way and the prostate way unk:

 

[Rawtashk]

Careful with that Royal Jelly stuff.

"Royal jelly may cause allergic reactions in humans ranging from hives, asthma, to even fatal anaphylaxis."

 

[Prop]

Careful with that Royal Jelly stuff.

"Royal jelly may cause allergic reactions in humans ranging from hives, asthma, to even fatal anaphylaxis."

i guess hormons are more dangerous, natural stuff is mainly safe except u r 100% allergic