Panicked: Severe Knotting In A Spot / Think The Hair Has Looped Thru The Lace.

[cottonReville]

As some of you know two of my pieces from Lord Hair, a company from which I doubt I'll buy again, went to hell owing to the same issue.

Well, it's happened again, in a small spot.

I want to address the problem without ruining the entire piece this time.

I think the problem stems from my, while asleep, tearing the toupee off my head. I wake up and the think is on the floor. (I hate sleeping with these things.)

Upon looking at the piece before re-attaching last night (with the same tape), nothing appeared out of place; but, this morning, I had a severely tangled spot. I couldn't detangle it, despite great effort to do so.

The ends of the hairs in question are not tangled; it's like I have a dreadlock @ the very base of the unit. If I touch the spot, it feels raised.

I'm not going to remove the unit at this point, as I have things to do today which I want hair for.

How do I proceed? I'm not sure if the hair has looped through the lace or if adhesive from the tape has seeped up into the hair. Either way, I'm unhappy.

From now on, I'll be ordering PU perimeter pieces....

What do I do?

 

[new2this]

I have UTS so I’m not sure about adhesive soaking through, but if it really is a tangle: my salon recommends pumping frizz ease directly into the knot, and then using the edge of a fine tooth comb to pick the knot off the base. Once it’s freed up, you can comb it out (I use a wide tooth for this step because my hair is curly but for straighter hair I think a regular comb would be fine)

if it’s the adhesive, I think you could soak it in C22. That’s what I did when I had some adhesive in the hair. Surprisingly, it didn’t wreak havoc. Once I combed everything out I was able to restore it until my next wash/condition — which I am now, a week later, still dealing with the aftermaths.

 

[Noah]

Hi CottonReville

The only solution I can suggest is the one I mentioned earlier: take the hairpiece off, apply neat conditioner to the tangle and work it in between your finger and thumb. As you work it in, try to loosen the tangle. Then take a comb, start working at the edge of the tangle, and start very gently brushing at the hairs in the tangle, combing them out. Continue to work in conditioner and comb out the edges, until the whole tangle is dispersed. While you are doing this, try to hold the tangled hair between the tangle and the base, so that when you are combing you are not pulling on the base.

But the more important point is this: no fine lace (or skin) hairpiece is going to be able to withstand the way you are treating your piece - ripping it off in the middle of the night without loosening the adhesives while you are lying in bed half-asleep and then dumping it on the floor with the adhesives still on it. These pieces are delicate, and need to be treated with respect. If it's uncomfortable for you to wear your toupee at night, use low-tac tape and take it off before bed and put it on a polystyrene wighead. Or if you want the freedom to rip your hair off during the night, then get a more robust unit - a monofilament base with a poly rim would be OK, but then you have to understand that you are not going to get the same level of undetectability in the result.

Noah

 

[cottonReville]

@Noah I rip them off in my sleep. I don't intend to; on the whole I take very good care of them.

I called my brother's wig lady & discussed the issue with her. I don't know if adhesive went into the hair, or the hair looped into the base, or what.

She says it happens all the time, severe tangling & matting, and suggested I remove the unit from my head & removed the tape after saturating the base with alcohol.

That big knot had a piece of my base crimped.

I tried, before calling her, rubbing conditioner into the dreadlock and untangling for an hour to no avail.

That's when I called her; she speaks with confidence and has tremendous experience but her suggestion did nothing but cause the unit to lose hair and develop new, small-but-tight tangles in new spots: Her suggestion was to wash the unit in a bowl w shampoo and water, working the knot out that way. Didn't work, as I noted, only making matters worse.

She did mention many of her customers remove their pieces - whatever the base - at night & reapply in the morning - like @Laconian does.

That was how I intended to carry on when I first got into wearing wigs, but I got worried nightly removal would be too taxing on the lace.

Now I think sleeping is the worst.

I believe in all three of these cases I was sweating profusely and ripped the system off my head. I don't recall what level of harshness I did that with, but in not one of the cases was the base badly crimped/shriveled/malformed until I wet the unit.

What do you personally think is the reason for the extreme tangling? On this unit, for sure, I had dryness and tangling enough that it was bothering me, before this severe knot formed.

I'm so pissed right now. I think the piece is salvageable but after hours of working with it tonight, I'm done for the night..

 

[cottonReville]

Ok, the unit is dry now, and, as I scrutinize it, I can tell very obviously that tangling above the base is causing the trouble.

Why I have so much tangling is the question.

My first lace unit, purchased at a salon, I abused like hell and it's still in fine shape. I just don't wear it as it's far too short for my present haircut.

The hair in it just doesn't tangle in any serious way, whereas my Lord's 30mm (body wave) it's been a nightmare.

 

[Noah]

I really don't know, Cotton. This is a new situation for me. The most likely explanations I can think of are:

- glue is leaking through the lace mesh and getting onto the hair. This could be because (1) you are attaching the piece before the glue is dry, or (2) you are leaving the piece on too long and the glue is deteriorating, mixing with your skin oils, and becoming gungy.

- the hairpiece is defective in that unprocessed hair with intact cuticle has been used, and the cuticle on different hairs facing opposite directions are causing tangling. It is hard to believe that a well-known manufacturer would make that sort of elementary mistake, but actually that sounds closest to what you are describing. If that is the problem, then all you can do is get new units from a different supplier.

For what it's worth, I don't agree with your brother's stylist. Severe tangling shouldn't be common.

If you are going to take your piece off every night for bed, you do have to be gentle with it to avoid stretching the mesh, which would cause wrinkles. But it is doable if you are careful. You have to release the adhesive fully with alcohol before you pull the hairline off. It helps if you order systems which have a poly or thinskin rim around the back and sides, and you detach from the back first, pulling the hairline off last.

Noah

 

[cottonReville]

I really don't know, Cotton. This is a new situation for me. The most likely explanations I can think of are:

- glue is leaking through the lace mesh and getting onto the hair. This could be because (1) you are attaching the piece before the glue is dry, or (2) you are leaving the piece on too long and the glue is deteriorating, mixing with your skin oils, and becoming gungy.

- the hairpiece is defective in that unprocessed hair with intact cuticle has been used, and the cuticle on different hairs facing opposite directions are causing tangling. It is hard to believe that a well-known manufacturer would make that sort of elementary mistake, but actually that sounds closest to what you are describing. If that is the problem, then all you can do is get new units from a different supplier.

For what it's worth, I don't agree with your brother's stylist. Severe tangling shouldn't be common.

If you are going to take your piece off every night for bed, you do have to be gentle with it to avoid stretching the mesh, which would cause wrinkles. But it is doable if you are careful. You have to release the adhesive fully with alcohol before you pull the hairline off. It helps if you order systems which have a poly or thinskin rim around the back and sides, and you detach from the back first, pulling the hairline off last.

Noah

I've never used glue, but tape exclusively.

I've never worn a piece long enough that the tape has turned into glue/mess.

I was wondering if maybe my sweat, mixed with the tape, with seeping up, but the tangles remain and are totally unsticky.

This is my third piece by Lord, and the tangling issue is a serious one even before first removal of the piece.

I've two other pieces whose hair doesn't tangle in any bizarre way.

 

[Noah]

Tape adhesive can get gungy, as well as glue. But as you say, you don't seem to be wearing your system long enough for that to happen.

It seems like the cuticle problem is the most likely. If so, the piece is not salvageable in the medium term. It will keep tangling.

 

[cottonReville]

As soon as that factory silicone is gone, the hair in the piece begins tangling in a very unforgivable way.

 

[Leduc]

a monofilament base with a poly rim would be OK, but then you have to understand that you are not going to get an undetectable result.

Noah,
I am not liking the sound of that, my anxiety level just jumped to high. I am only 6 weeks away from my first hair piece, a monofilament base with PU rim and some lace at the hairline (I think it's actually 1/2 inch rather than the 1/4 I said earlier in another thread). Is the detectability issue with mono bases at the hairline and only when there is no lace attached? Or is it the entire piece that has issues with detectability. In the event that things don't work out with the unit I have ordered, could you please recommend something more suitable and undetectable. I would like to make a more informed decision next time around. One of my concerns has been with adhesive glues which are used with the skin bases, I have a sensitive scalp and worry about allergic reactions. I would like to use the tapes for everywhere but the hairline.

 

[Noah]

Hi Leduc - sorry, I didn't mean to cause you alarm. I have amended my earlier comment, which was a bit too broad.

If you have a lace front, as you do, you should be able to get a result which is undetectable to the sight. But a mono base is a lot coarser than a lace or skin base (hence its robustness), so it will be more detectable to the feel, and a PU rim will make it more so. Also, if someone is looking down on top of your head, the mono mesh may be visible, particularly if there is a crown or parting.

If you are already partnered and your partner knows that you wear a piece, the fact that it is detectable by touch may not be a concern for you - it is pretty rare for other people to get into your hair. The visibility of the mesh from above may be an issue if you have a desk job where people are standing over you while you are seated. It can also be an issue in airplanes, where someone is staring at the back of your head for 2 hours. If you are sensitive about anyone noticing, you may just have to wear a hat on those occasions.

Basically, robustness and undetectability are inversely proportional to one another: the most undetectable systems are the most fragile, and the most hardwearing systems are the most detectable. It is a matter of finding a balance. If you don't plan to have a style where your (artificial) hairline is permanently on view, a all-French lace base might suit you, as a good balance between undetectability and robustness. If you are not too sensitive about detectability by feel, you could also order a poly or thinskin horseshoe rim for the piece, which is a good surface for applying tape to.

Noah

 

[Leduc]

Hi Leduc - sorry, I didn't mean to cause you alarm. I have amended my earlier comment, which was a bit too broad.

If you have a lace front, as you do, you should be able to get a result which is undetectable to the sight. But a mono base is a lot coarser than a lace or skin base (hence its robustness), so it will be more detectable to the feel, and a PU rim will make it more so. Also, if someone is looking down on top of your head, the mono mesh may be visible, particularly if there is a crown or parting.

If you are already partnered and your partner knows that you wear a piece, the fact that it is detectable by touch may not be a concern for you - it is pretty rare for other people to get into your hair. The visibility of the mesh from above may be an issue if you have a desk job where people are standing over you while you are seated. It can also be an issue in airplanes, where someone is staring at the back of your head for 2 hours. If you are sensitive about anyone noticing, you may just have to wear a hat on those occasions.

Basically, robustness and undetectability are inversely proportional to one another: the most undetectable systems are the most fragile, and the most hardwearing systems are the most detectable. It is a matter of finding a balance. If you don't plan to have a style where your (artificial) hairline is permanently on view, a all-French lace base might suit you, as a good balance between undetectability and robustness. If you are not too sensitive about detectability by feel, you could also order a poly or thinskin horseshoe rim for the piece, which is a good surface for applying tape to.

Noah

Hi Noah,
Thanks for the reassuring words. Another worry I have is the light density I ordered, it may be age appropriate but it may not work with the mono base. I will see how it works out in 6 weeks, either way I will look into the French lace for my second order. I don't know if it's common practice to experience all these doubts or if I'm just being overly paranoid, I suppose it's all part of the learning curve. I am very happy to have found this forum, it has proven to be a great resource.
Best Regards,
Leduc

 

[cottonReville]

@Leduc: My younger brother has been wearing hair longer than I, and always reported to me his systems are "lace."

He's also always reported taking the piece off whenever he wants without its becoming compromised.

Given the fact that he can't even shave his face without nicking himself 10 times, I wondered how he - not good with his hands, someone who's not delicate in any way - could be toupee'ing with such ease.

Well, upon talking to his stylist, who does all his wig work, from attachment to cleaning to removal, I learned he, in fact does not wear lace at all.

He's been wearing fine-welded mono w/ PU perimeter all along.

@Noah's standard for detectability is exceptionally high. In the past 2 yrs. my brother's been wearing no1's noticed & I always found his pieces be very convincing.

And standard French lace doesn't look undetectable either - unless certain measures are taken.

First of all, the hairline has to be graduated, with bleached knots. Beyond that, glue - rather than tape - needs to be applied to hairline.

I want something comfortable that makes me look good. I don't expose my hairline in any overt way. My hair looks incredibly realistic & nice, but it's not "undetectable" by Noah's Standards. My french lace hairline - whose density is medium-light (100-110%) - does not look realistic. The relative thickness of the base, coupled with the tape beneath it, renders a hairline that stands too tall on my forehead, if that makes sense.

What's more, because I don't order expensive pieces, I don't have a graduated hairline - which I think is the biggest deal-breaker when it comes to visual detectability.

I buy stock pieces, and the company from which I buy, doesn't offer a French w/ PU perimeter option, which I would have tried by now.

Increasingly, though, I'm becoming curious about mono pieces!

 

[Leduc]

@cottonReville,
I hope I have the same level of success as your brother. As I also lack dexterity I plan to have most of the servicing done at the salon, at least until I get it all figured out and gain confidence to DIY. In terms of a graduated hairline, I ordered a light density piece with a narrow strip of lace at the hairline so I'm not sure how much graduating can be achieved with that. I now think my density coupled with the grey hair color will pose the biggest detectability problems for me, I never even considered the mono shine issue until reading this forum weeks after placing the order. I don't think the density and hair color will be able to conceal the shine of the base.
I will post my results in a few weeks, good or bad, and give you my opinion on the mono base.

 

[cottonReville]

@cottonReville,
I hope I have the same level of success as your brother. As I also lack dexterity I plan to have most of the servicing done at the salon, at least until I get it all figured out and gain confidence to DIY. In terms of a graduated hairline, I ordered a light density piece with a narrow strip of lace at the hairline so I'm not sure how much graduating can be achieved with that. I now think my density coupled with the grey hair color will pose the biggest detectability problems for me, I never even considered the mono shine issue until reading this forum weeks after placing the order. I don't think the density and hair color will be able to conceal the shine of the base.
I will post my results in a few weeks, good or bad, and give you my opinion on the mono base.

I saw the post regarding a mono piece purchased on Amazon or eBay comprising a shiny base.

I know next-to-nothing about mono pieces but there are different types of the base type and maybe they don't all shine?

I haven't seen my brother since I started wearing hair pieces in July.

I will say I was stunned by how good his hair looked once he began wearing, and never noticed anything unnatural.

He'll be visiting from LA within the next few days and you can rest assured I'll be scrutinizing the sh*t out of his piece !

 

[Leduc]

I saw the post regarding a mono piece purchased on Amazon or eBay comprising a shiny base.

I know next-to-nothing about mono pieces but there are different types of the base type and maybe they don't all shine?

I haven't seen my brother since I started wearing hair pieces in July.

I will say I was stunned by how good his hair looked once he began wearing, and never noticed anything unnatural.

He'll be visiting from LA within the next few days and you can rest assured I'll be scrutinizing the sh*t out of his piece !

Let us know after you've had a chance to scrutinize you brothers hair piece. Hopefully your opinion will remain unchanged. As for myself, I find this 3 month wait for the custom piece to be a real pain, it's given me too much time to develop concerns about my order. But I remain hopeful.

 

[cottonReville]

I made the mistake, over ten years ago, of getting a custom toupee from HAIR CLUB FOR MEN for 2,500$ because I wanted to have a different hairline.

I asked if I could get a piece just for the front, and they said no, that I'd have to get larger piece & shave my head.

They matched my hair against different shades, did that primitive saran wrap over the head template nonsense, and maybe cut(?) a piece of my hair to find the right texture.

The thing is, I'd gone in wearing a hat or bandana and my hair, curly, had been flattened. I explained that to the woman conducting this business, but she said it was fine.

Several weeks later, this piece of sh*t came in & I had it attached. It absolutely did not match my bio hair's texture. I also remember the bond job they did was so poor I was able to immediately slide the piece around my head. After a day or two, I went back demanding a refund, acutely aware that I'd been ripped off & given suboptimal service.

I don't recall exactly how things ended up. I fought aggressively w them for a refund. Ultimately, they said they'd give me 50% back, but I'm pretty sure I pressed further & got a better return.

Either way, I realized at that time that these hair pieces/toupees are VERY PRIMITIVE, simple wigs & that I'd definitely get one from a better source when I really needed one.

I remember finding Hair Direct online & researching a little...

Ultimately, I wish I'd started wearing hair earlier than I chose to, but I still made a very clean transition.

The other lesson I learned is that stock pieces are a very good option. I had curly, unmanageable hair, which only looked good once in my life: When my hairline was still intact & I'd slick it back w heavy pomade. Still, straight/slightly wavy hair is much more agreeable to me; and these medium-light density stock pieces I've been getting since July are in every way better than my bio hair.

I keep my sides and back short enough that they don't curl & the hair from the toupee does the rest of the work. I wish I'd jumped into this earlier.

II.

I beg your pardon for the long rambling; I guess my ultimate pt. is stock pieces are very good!

I'm fortunate insofar as the woman whom I've been getting my haircut for the longest time is adept enough at her craft that she can easily do a cut in for me.

 

[Leduc]

I made the mistake, over ten years ago, of getting a custom toupee from HAIR CLUB FOR MEN for 2,500$ because I wanted to have a different hairline.

I asked if I could get a piece just for the front, and they said no, that I'd have to get larger piece & shave my head.

They matched my hair against different shades, did that primitive saran wrap over the head template nonsense, and maybe cut(?) a piece of my hair to find the right texture.

The thing is, I'd gone in wearing a hat or bandana and my hair, curly, had been flattened. I explained that to the woman conducting this business, but she said it was fine.

Several weeks later, this piece of sh*t came in & I had it attached. It absolutely did not match my bio hair's texture. I also remember the bond job they did was so poor I was able to immediately slide the piece around my head. After a day or two, I went back demanding a refund, acutely aware that I'd been ripped off & given suboptimal service.

I don't recall exactly how things ended up. I fought aggressively w them for a refund. Ultimately, they said they'd give me 50% back, but I'm pretty sure I pressed further & got a better return.

Either way, I realized at that time that these hair pieces/toupees are VERY PRIMITIVE, simple wigs & that I'd definitely get one from a better source when I really needed one.

I remember finding Hair Direct online & researching a little...

Ultimately, I wish I'd started wearing hair earlier than I chose to, but I still made a very clean transition.

The other lesson I learned is that stock pieces are a very good option. I had curly, unmanageable hair, which only looked good once in my life: When my hairline was still intact & I'd slick it back w heavy pomade. Still, straight/slightly wavy hair is much more agreeable to me; and these medium-light density stock pieces I've been getting since July are in every way better than my bio hair.

I keep my sides and back short enough that they don't curl & the hair from the toupee does the rest of the work. I wish I'd jumped into this earlier.

II.

I beg your pardon for the long rambling; I guess my ultimate pt. is stock pieces are very good!

I'm fortunate insofar as the woman whom I've been getting my haircut for the longest time is adept enough at her craft that she can easily do a cut in for me.

Wow, it took you 10 years to have another go at it after the bad experience with Hair Club. My reaction would have been the same. There is an entire website dedicated to Hair Club complaints which is why I opted for a small salon, she specializes in wigs but also does hair pieces for men, I just hope she has enough experience to do this right. Of course when I asked she told me that she has several male clients, but who knows, I may be the first and only one. Apparently the stylist she uses for cut-ins also wears so that was a positive for me. Honestly though I don't have much hope now that I've spent time on this forum, given my hair color and the base material and density I have on order. If I do end up going the DIY route I'm sure I will have loads of questions. BTW, were you able to resolve the tangling issue?

 

[cottonReville]

Wow, it took you 10 years to have another go at it after the bad experience with Hair Club. My reaction would have been the same. There is an entire website dedicated to Hair Club complaints which is why I opted for a small salon, she specializes in wigs but also does hair pieces for men, I just hope she has enough experience to do this right. Of course when I asked she told me that she has several male clients, but who knows, I may be the first and only one. Apparently the stylist she uses for cut-ins also wears so that was a positive for me. Honestly though I don't have much hope now that I've spent time on this forum, given my hair color and the base material and density I have on order. If I do end up going the DIY route I'm sure I will have loads of questions. BTW, were you able to resolve the tangling issue?

No, it's that it took me a decade to get over it! I didn't really feel the need to get one. I said to myself I'd get one in the future if I needed one & began not exposing my hairline by way of a new hairstyle.

These passed two years, my hair began to really show signs of thinning at the temples, so I started wearing hats, bandanas, etc.

I entered a relationship w an unusually attractive girl & noticed, within 2 weeks, that I was terrified of losing her to another guy. I was experiencing a level of insecurity I hadn't felt in previous relationships, and I knew most of it was rooted in my hair loss. We broke up after a year, whereupon, I got my first piece from the exact same type of shop you describe. I googled hair pieces, wigs, etc. in the area & made some calls. The woman I dealt w sold me a stock piece for 400 USD & charged 100 for cut in, attachment, etc.

When I saw how easy the whole thing seemed, I got online & started ordering pieces that way.

On the topic of the tangling, no - I haven't resolved it. I'm just wearing it w that stupid knot in the back. Haven't had the time to address it.