Off finasteride & Looking for Alternatives -- spironolactone? Revivogen? Avodart? Need knowledge

[Donny J]

I've been off finasteride for about 7 weeks now (was on it for 3.5 years and am now sick of mental side effects) and I need to get on alternative treatments asap. I've done a decent amount of reading, but I'm still fairly clueless on some of the finer points of alternatives. Here's what I know and what I'm looking to find out:

spironolactone (aka Spironolactone, right?):
-Is this always applied topically?
-my understanding is that this prevents DHT from binding to the follicles, as opposed to DHT from being created (what propecia does)
-are there any potential side effects?
-how is the effectiveness?
-and ultimately, where can/should I purchase this? and how much is it?
-I've read about differences in 2% and 5%, but am not really sure what I should be going for
-is the smell really that bad?

Ru58841:
-i don't know much about this, but considering that you need to mix/make it yourself, i think i want to stay away from it. sounds dangerous.

Dutasteride/dutasteride/avodart:
-this blocks both 5 AR receptors, as opposed to just the one on propecia, so i'll likely experience just as bad if not worse sides

Revivogen:
-is the best place to purchase simply revivogen.com?
-again, are there any sides?
-and how effective is it?

Laser combs:
-do these actually work?

Saw Palmetto & Zinc:
-i can probably research these a bit easier, but is there anyone who swears by these as helping with hairloss?



which of these are highest recommended when not using finasteride?
I've also been doing (and plan to continue using) nizoral 2%, nioxin, biotin, & rogaine (2xs daily)


thanks!

 

[Mikazz]

First of all, use minoxidil 5% one ou two times a day.

Then I would recommand oral and topical saw palmetto for optimal anti-dht results. For topical saw palmetto, open your capsule to obtain the oils. You can mix 2-3 capsule with 1ml of minoxidil 5% 2-3 times a week. Keep it on your scalp while you are sleeping.

You can add a ketoconazole cream or shampoo 2% 2-3 times a week. You must let the shampoo (or cream) on your wet scalp for at least 1 hour for optimal results (if you can handle it).

Vitamins will definitively helps. Especially the vitamin D3/k2 combo, and biotin.

I have seen positive results with this, since I stopped finasteride.

However, finasteride is the best weapon against hairloss. I don't even know if there is an alternative outside of the risky Ru58841 and dutaseride. Some people reports no sides with dutasteride while having sides with finasteride.

 

[Donny J]

First of all, use minoxidil 5% one ou two times a day.

Then I would recommand oral and topical saw palmetto for optimal anti-dht results. For topical saw palmetto, open your capsule to obtain the oils. You can mix 2-3 capsule with 1ml of minoxidil 5% 2-3 times a week. Keep it on your scalp while you are sleeping.

You can add a ketoconazole cream or shampoo 2% 2-3 times a week. You must let the shampoo (or cream) on your wet scalp for at least 1 hour for optimal results (if you can handle it).

Vitamins will definitively helps. Especially the vitamin D3/k2 combo, and biotin.

I have seen positive results with this, since I stopped finasteride.

However, finasteride is the best weapon against hairloss. I don't even know if there is an alternative outside of the risky Ru58841 and dutaseride. Some people reports no sides with dutasteride while having sides with finasteride.

thanks for the reply -- i mentioned at the bottom that i do currently use rogaine (twice a day), nizoral (ketocanazole) shampoo, and biotin. I do also take fish oil w/ D3 each day, but i wasn't aware that that was useful for hairloss (?).

i'll try out saw palmetto. but if considering using revivogen and/or spironolactone, then would a topical saw palmetto actually do anything that those couldn't? what's typical/recommended oral dosage/frequency?

 

[JZA70]

I've been off finasteride for about 7 weeks now (was on it for 3.5 years and am now sick of mental side effects)

Come on home brother.

Sadly, there isn't much more you can do if you can't tolerate 5AR inhibitors. I jumped off them for the same reason as you.

Everything on your list besides Avodart (which you should stay far away from) is pretty much useless.

CB and RU are the next best things but without proper vehicles don't expect much if anything from them.

 

[cthulhu2.0]

I've been off finasteride for about 7 weeks now (was on it for 3.5 years and am now sick of mental side effects) and I need to get on alternative treatments asap. I've done a decent amount of reading, but I'm still fairly clueless on some of the finer points of alternatives. Here's what I know and what I'm looking to find out:

spironolactone (aka Spironolactone, right?):
-Is this always applied topically?
-my understanding is that this prevents DHT from binding to the follicles, as opposed to DHT from being created (what propecia does)
-are there any potential side effects?
-how is the effectiveness?
-and ultimately, where can/should I purchase this? and how much is it?
-I've read about differences in 2% and 5%, but am not really sure what I should be going for
-is the smell really that bad?

Ru58841:
-i don't know much about this, but considering that you need to mix/make it yourself, i think i want to stay away from it. sounds dangerous.

Dutasteride/dutasteride/avodart:
-this blocks both 5 AR receptors, as opposed to just the one on propecia, so i'll likely experience just as bad if not worse sides

Revivogen:
-is the best place to purchase simply revivogen.com?
-again, are there any sides?
-and how effective is it?

Laser combs:
-do these actually work?

Saw Palmetto & Zinc:
-i can probably research these a bit easier, but is there anyone who swears by these as helping with hairloss?



which of these are highest recommended when not using finasteride?
I've also been doing (and plan to continue using) nizoral 2%, nioxin, biotin, & rogaine (2xs daily)


thanks!

I wouldn't be considering Avodart(dutasteride) if you are experiencing sides on finasteride, since your side effects WILL BE elevated by switching to dutasteride. The only logical choice would be to get on the other two treatments that are part of the big 3(ketoconazole aka nizoral and minoxidil).

 

[xRedStaRx]

I would try finasteride 1mg every 3 days, or 0.5mg every other day.

It's extremely effective at protecting hair even at low doses, and you will not get side effects on an intermittent dosing schedule like that most likely.

 

[kpat]

I've been off finasteride for about 7 weeks now (was on it for 3.5 years and am now sick of mental side effects) and I need to get on alternative treatments asap. I've done a decent amount of reading, but I'm still fairly clueless on some of the finer points of alternatives. Here's what I know and what I'm looking to find out:

spironolactone (aka Spironolactone, right?):
-Is this always applied topically?
-my understanding is that this prevents DHT from binding to the follicles, as opposed to DHT from being created (what propecia does)
-are there any potential side effects?
-how is the effectiveness?
-and ultimately, where can/should I purchase this? and how much is it?
-I've read about differences in 2% and 5%, but am not really sure what I should be going for
-is the smell really that bad?

Ru58841:
-i don't know much about this, but considering that you need to mix/make it yourself, i think i want to stay away from it. sounds dangerous.

Dutasteride/dutasteride/avodart:
-this blocks both 5 AR receptors, as opposed to just the one on propecia, so i'll likely experience just as bad if not worse sides

Revivogen:
-is the best place to purchase simply revivogen.com?
-again, are there any sides?
-and how effective is it?

Laser combs:
-do these actually work?

Saw Palmetto & Zinc:
-i can probably research these a bit easier, but is there anyone who swears by these as helping with hairloss?



which of these are highest recommended when not using finasteride?
I've also been doing (and plan to continue using) nizoral 2%, nioxin, biotin, & rogaine (2xs daily)


thanks!

If you don't mind explaining, what mental side effects did you experience? Have you noticed a difference now that you've been off the drug?

 

[Donny J]

If you don't mind explaining, what mental side effects did you experience? Have you noticed a difference now that you've been off the drug?

this is my full story:

3 1/2 years ago, i began taking finasteride -- 5/8mg daily. just after 3 weeks of my initial intake, i began to experience debilitating brain fog. i got off of the drug, and after 2-3 days, the brain fog diminished. i stayed off for a week and decided to test it out again to verify that there wasn't some sort of outside source, and that my brain fog was, in fact, due to the finasteride. 3 weeks passed, and then bam, once again, i experienced the exact same thing until i was off the drug for 2-3 days. still not convinced, i gave it one more go, with the same results, not occurring until 3 weeks consistently on the drug.


i came to the conclusion that there was some sort of "build-up", where every day, my body would only "absorb" (for lack of a better term) a certain amount of the drug, and over time, the build-up became too much, and caused this brain fog as a result of there potentially being too much in my system. either that, or my body didn't like the effects of the drug being in my system for greater than 3 weeks at a time. either way, i decided to alter my frequency: 3 weeks on, 1 week off. this worked well and my side effects didn't rear their head. for simplicity sake (not wanting to count 3 weeks every month), i later altered my frequency again to take the drug mon-fri, and then not take it on sat-sun. this worked well and I was, for the most part, side-effect-free for ~2 years.


starting april/may of last year, i began to develop what i can only describe as a very strange reaction to lights, which ends up manifesting into headaches. the initial feelings of this were different than the brain fog I had experienced in the past, but equally as debilitating, and often manifested into a similar "brain fog"-esque feeling. I took note that this symptom was occurring towards the very end of the work day, where my stress/anxiety levels were highest.


i decided at that time to get off of finasteride, suspecting something may be related (I still don't know this for sure). after 6 weeks off the drug, i didn't feel any better, but i was scared that going any longer would result in me drastically losing my hair. so, i got back on it.
this light-sensitivity, however, continued, and it only got worse -- after 1-2 months, i found myself waking up and immediately experiencing the feeling (it was no longer strictly occurring at the end of the work day, or during high-stress situations). during this time, i also experienced my first-ever migraine (which lasted 8 days).


i had been to a couple doctors (my pcp, a neurologist, chiropractor, and an eye doctor). i got a CT scan, and had several other tests done, and it was determined that this was just likely stress-related. my girlfriend had a prescription for xanax at the time, and i decided to test it out. the effects were immediately fantastic, with my symptoms completely going away. i reported this to my pcp, who then prescribed me the .25mg of xanax, to be taken 2-3 times daily as needed.


from there, my symptoms were manageable, but even 5-6 months after being initially prescribed the xanax, i noticed that if i didn't take the drug as scheduled, the feelings would immediately come back.


...which brings me to 2-3 months ago, where I had several experiences of 2-3 days in a row, where i felt like i was in "a haze" (still not full "brain fog", but somewhere in-between). I decided that i had enough of it, and I wanted to be off the drug for longer than last time, to see if all of my symptoms would go away.


in short, i know this:
-if i don't control (more than 3 weeks in a row) my intake of finasteride, i get brain fog
-i've started getting instances of having several days in a row where i feel i'm in a complete haze.
-the light sensitivity, manifesting into headaches and brain-fog-esque, i'm still not sure if it's from the finasteride, but i'd like to find out.


basically, i won't know for certain that this is from the finasteride unless i try being off of it for at least a few months..

- - - Updated - - -

I would try finasteride 1mg every 3 days, or 0.5mg every other day.

It's extremely effective at protecting hair even at low doses, and you will not get side effects on an intermittent dosing schedule like that most likely.

i would consider that, but not until i get me feeling back to 100%.

 

[JZA70]

i would consider that, but not until i get me feeling back to 100%.

Your body clearly doesn't like the drug. It would be selfish to keep taking it even at a lower dose.

0.25mg inhibits nearly the same levels of DHT as 5mg.

 

[Donny J]

Your body clearly doesn't like the drug. It would be selfish to keep taking it even at a lower dose.

0.25mg inhibits nearly the same levels of DHT as 5mg.

yehp. been reading about that -- that (.25mg) is all i would really consider doing at this point. it is strange that after 2 years of having it under control, i started to experience these different sides. which is why i want to see if these other sides (which haven't really been reported by others) subside first.

 

[JZA70]

Who knows. Some people don't develop noticeable sides until they're a few years in.

Just dump the drug. It's not worth the risk of developing long term or permanent side effects.

http://area1255.blogspot.ca/2013/06/exclusive-what-how-of-dht.html

 

[xRedStaRx]

I agree, you are not tolerating the drug properly. I'd suggest you give it one last go using interminent dosing or low doses.

Try 0.2mg ED, 0.5 EOD, and 0.625 E3D. See what works best for you.

 

[Rudolphus]

You're obviously one of the unlucky few whose body simply cannot handle systemic DHT inhibition.

Unfortunately, that puts you in a tough situation, because until CB-03-01 eventually comes out, your chances of winning the battle in the long-term against hair loss without using finasteride or dutasteride are very slim. Reducing your finasteride dosage to 0.25mg will make little difference in terms of reducing side effects, because 0.25mg inhibits almost the same amount of DHT as 1mg, and it is precisely the DHT inhibition that is the cause of side effects. Going on dutasteride will only make your side effects MUCH worse.

Until CB-03-01 is available (which is most likely at least six years away), I recommend you look into using RU. In my opinion, RU is by a long way the next best treatment currently available after finasteride or dutasteride. Everything else that's out there (Nizoral and minoxidil included) is in my opinion going to help very little with male pattern baldness, especially in the long term.

 

[Donny J]

You're obviously one of the unlucky few whose body simply cannot handle systemic DHT inhibition.

Unfortunately, that puts you in a tough situation, because until CB-03-01 eventually comes out, your chances of winning the battle in the long-term against hair loss without using finasteride or dutasteride are very slim. Reducing your finasteride dosage to 0.25mg will make little difference in terms of reducing side effects, because 0.25mg inhibits almost the same amount of DHT as 1mg, and it is precisely the DHT inhibition that is the cause of side effects. Going on dutasteride will only make your side effects MUCH worse.

Until CB-03-01 is available (which is most likely at least six years away), I recommend you look into using RU. In my opinion, RU is by a long way the next best treatment currently available after finasteride or dutasteride. Everything else that's out there (Nizoral and minoxidil included) is in my opinion going to help very little with male pattern baldness, especially in the long term.

this is the first i'm hearing about "CB-03-01". i can do some more research myself, but any quick breakdown on how it will/might/hopefully works would be great.

you're right -- this does put me in a tough situation. I'm reading more about RU as we speak, but i'm still extremely skeptical about something that never made it to market or finished clinical trials -- what happened to the trials? why did it disappear?

to further speak on RU, from the reading i've done thus far, it sounds like it doesn't inhibit DHT production, but basically just protects your hair follicles from being affected by the DHT (i.e., it blocks the DHT from harming the hair). Knowing this, this would eliminate side-effects, yeah?
Also knowing this, it sounds like this is close in comparison to what spironolactone and Revivogen claim to do and are both widely available on the market.

So, i see this right now:
-i could learn to cook my own formula of RU, using chemicals which I have no idea what the hell they actually are, and use myself in place of a lab rat to conduct human trials on myself
-or i could try using some approved topicals

basically: i'm scared to play chemist and test an unapproved/untested agent on myself, but may be willing to try it out if the claims are true and there's reputable sources to acquire such elements (or to acquire a pre-cooked set)???

 

[JZA70]

You're obviously one of the unlucky few whose body simply cannot handle systemic DHT inhibition.

Yeah... only 2% of people get sides, right ? :shakehead:

 

[xRedStaRx]

Yeah... only 2% of people get sides, right ? :shakehead:

More than that, but only 2% usually have them strong enough to discontinue.

 

[Donny J]

dude... these mental side effects are more consistent and obtrusive than when i was on the drug... been having mental sides for around 3 weeks straight now, with only a couple of days of it letting up. i just went to get labs (thyroid, testosterone, dht, estrogen, etc.) done today to see if my levels are normal. starting to contemplate whether i should start a small dose of the drug again, but i think deep down that that's not a great decision, as i should let my body to normalize on it's own..

side note: i ended up purchasing spironolactone last night. i figure it's better than nothing, and i've read about a few people who swear by it.

 

[JHCL1990]

dude... these mental side effects are more consistent and obtrusive than when i was on the drug... been having mental sides for around 3 weeks straight now, with only a couple of days of it letting up. i just went to get labs (thyroid, testosterone, dht, estrogen, etc.) done today to see if my levels are normal. starting to contemplate whether i should start a small dose of the drug again, but i think deep down that that's not a great decision, as i should let my body to normalize on it's own..

side note: i ended up purchasing spironolactone last night. i figure it's better than nothing, and i've read about a few people who swear by it.

Hahaha I know how you feel! I've never taken finasteride, but I already have these "mental side effects" that are being discussed. I frequently have "brain fog," forget sh!t, am tired/lazy/lethargic, have changes in mood (happy, sad, angry, annoyed/frustrated, etc.), suffer from insomnia, etc. The only thing different is my libido is sky high almost all the time.

 

[Donny J]

Hahaha I know how you feel! I've never taken finasteride, but I already have these "mental side effects" that are being discussed. I frequently have "brain fog," forget sh!t, am tired/lazy/lethargic, have changes in mood (happy, sad, angry, annoyed/frustrated, etc.), suffer from insomnia, etc. The only thing different is my libido is sky high almost all the time.

your sides and my sides are clearly not the same thing then... you might want to see a physician if you're experiencing these things. that being said, being tired/lazy/lethargic, or forgetting ****, isn't "brain fog". that's called being in a slump or having "off-days", or being depressed. no offense, but i think that this is a prime example of why when people on finasteride say that they are experiencing "brain fog", we're not always taken seriously, because you get other folks who correlate it to what you're experiencing, rather than what we are experiencing (a complete, debilitating mental haze, where nothing feels like real life, etc.).

 

[HustlingBaldly]

the best place to buy revivogen is at www.luxurybarber.com

always buy from them along with my regenepure products.