Newly Discovered Factor in Androgenetic Alopecia. The Cure is Near?

zombiehair

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Not sure what to make of this new discovery or how it fits in with dht or pgd2 theorys.would like to hear any thoughts also.

I have another link here with a table of natural cox-2 inhibitors and their Inhibitor Activity Measure .
Might be of interset to some.

http://www.itmonline.org/arts/lox.htm
 

squeegee

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L'oreal LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
 

lobsterlobster

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So should I not invest any hope in this product? Apparently a large amount of the funding for the hair multiplication project going on now is funded by L'oreal, and this Dr. Bernard guy is pretty respectable (at least that's what my memory tells me). Unfortunately, I'm one of those unlucky guys who gets sides from both finasteride and minoxidil. I kind of need a new product, ha
 

lobsterlobster

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I used the 5% for two weeks, everything was great, but then I suddenly noticed wrinkles under my eyes (especially when I smile). And it looks a little darker, too. My eyes also felt sore, like I've been watching tv for hours. Not too noticeable at this point, but I don't want it to get worse. My rationale: might as well quit now before my hair isn't too dependent on it.

BUT I want to keep using it, as I don't have many more options, other than the spironolactone I just ordered online. Should I cut down to just once a day? Or should I switch over to 2% twice a day?
 

hellouser

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I used the 5% for two weeks, everything was great, but then I suddenly noticed wrinkles under my eyes (especially when I smile). And it looks a little darker, too. My eyes also felt sore, like I've been watching tv for hours. Not too noticeable at this point, but I don't want it to get worse. My rationale: might as well quit now before my hair isn't too dependent on it.

BUT I want to keep using it, as I don't have many more options, other than the spironolactone I just ordered online. Should I cut down to just once a day? Or should I switch over to 2% twice a day?

I don't think minoxidil is making your eyes tired or wrinkles.
 

Quadzilla99

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An enzyme called cyclo-oxegenase-2 (COX-2) converts the omega-6 fatty acid, arachidonic acid (AA) to PGD2. If that conversion can be stopped or reduced anywhere along the chain it will stop or reduce the effects of PGD2 on the hair follicles. Constituents of the foodstuffs I mentioned can stop or reduce how much AA is converted to PGD2 or they can reduce the effectiveness or production of COX-2.

The active ingredients in those foodstuffs that could inhibit the production of this prostaglandin are quercetin in tea and various compounds in ginger.

I mentioned aspirin too but this is the drug form of salicylic acid. Salicylic acid is found in many plants (and we also manufacture it in our bodies). Salicylic acid, the stuff found in plants, can be toxic if too much is absorbed through the skin. And, as the form used to test inhibition of COX in vitro is aspirin or sodium salicylate, I'm not sure if salicylic acid from plants such as meadowsweet or willow bark would be safe or even if it would work.

You might be tempted to dissolve an aspirin tablet in water and then apply that to your skin but you'll also be rubbing in all the fillers and caking agents that are used to make tablets. Aspirin toxicity could also be a problem. And some people would get skin reactions. I think it would be better to use tea or ginger. But ginger can also cause skin rashes in some people. If you decide to use these substances you should test some on a small area of skin first where a rash won't be noticeable, such as an arm. No doubt, there will even be some people who would develop a rash after applying tea to their skin, so you must decide if the potential risks are worth it.

Why doesn't he mention that there are salicylic acid shampoos? (neutrogena T-sal or better yet Neutrogena T-gel greasy (also contains PO) would they work to inhbit pgd2?
 

zombiehair

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for suppressing cox-2
It might be good to add some thyme oil to your shampoo of choice
or to minoxidil liquid .

Im not saying anyone should do this .
everyone should read up on the things they think might help based on the info we have now and make their own choices.

hope people might update thread and post results if they try any of the possible treatments discussed in this thread.

good luck all
 
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zombiehair

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here is something that got my interest while reading some studies.
Not sure what to make of it.
might be of interest to those who like to read studies.
the active ingredient of castor oil is Ricinoleic acid.
Ricinoleic acid connects to Both EP 3* and EP4 prostaglandin receptors.I beleive these are downstream of cox.
not sure if this would be usefull or not although ive read claims of castor oil being good for hair growth.
here are the links if anyone wants to take a look. any insight and thoughts would be welcome.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/21/castor-oils-health-benefits-ricinoleic-acid_n_1534787.html
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC199422/
 

Quadzilla99

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here is something that got my interest while reading some studies.
Not sure what to make of it.
might be of interest to those who like to read studies.
the active ingredient of castor oil is Ricinoleic acid.
Ricinoleic acid connects to Both EP 3* and EP4 prostaglandin receptors.I beleive these are downstream of cox.
not sure if this would be usefull or not although ive read claims of castor oil being good for hair growth.
here are the links if anyone wants to take a look. any insight and thoughts would be welcome.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/21/castor-oils-health-benefits-ricinoleic-acid_n_1534787.html
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC199422/

Interdasting.

It tastes horrible and smells awful by itself. I can't imagine consuming/using it either way. But I do see products that contain it on the market after googling around:

http://www.walgreens.com/store/c/ho...reatment-with-mink-oil/ID=prod4021949-product

http://www.herbspro.com/shop/xq/asp/pid.62931/qx/productDetail.htm

I assume if its part of a mixture they might be able to mask the smell and those capsules would be the only way I could take it every day orally.
 

squeegee

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Funny guys! Castor oil is use as an hair grow booster just like Miconazole Nitrate in the female hair growth forums.. look it up!!! Cox is the damn problem! period.
 

2020

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Funny guys! Castor oil is use as an hair grow booster just like Miconazole Nitrate in the female hair growth forums.. look it up!!! Cox is the damn problem! period.

yes castor oil definitely does something. It's being praised in women hair forums.

How do you block COX-2 then? I'm thinking any treatment that deals with seborrheic dermatitis, will probably have some strong cox blocking abilities?
 

zombiehair

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I know castor oil is supposed to be good for hair (topical dont eat it) thats why i looked into it to try and find its possible mode of action with regards to prostaglandins.
what got my interest was that it blocks Both EP3 and EP4 prostaglandin receptors.
thought it might be of interest to some also.
anyway to block cox-2 thyme oil could be the way to go.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/01/100113122306.htm
cheers
 

Quadzilla99

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strong cox blocking abilities?

lulz



Well, aspirin is a strong inhibitor of Cox2 and salicylic acid is basically the active form of aspirin. The thing is you only want to block the formation of pgd2 the other prostanglandins are healthy afaik so castor oil seems like a smart choice. From what I can tell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COX-2#Function) completely stymying cox2 would affect the other prostaglandins which are beneficial for hair growth (?)

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Interview with Dr Cotsarelis posted on some other forum I found interesting



By Abby Van Voorhees, MD, June 01, 2012

In this month’s Acta Eruditorum column, Physician Editor Abby S. Van Voorhees, MD, talks with George Cotsarelis, MD, about his recent Science Translational Medicine article, “Prostaglandin D2 Inhibits Hair Growth and Is Elevated in Bald Scalp of Men with Androgenetic Alopecia.â€


Dr. Van Voorhees: What have we known about androgenetic alopecia (Androgenetic Alopecia) up until your most recent findings?

Dr. Cotsarelis: We know a lot about Androgenetic Alopecia from studies a long time ago, in the ’50s, by Dr. James Hamilton. He was the first one to coin the term androgenetic alopecia. He noticed that men who had been castrated before puberty never went bald, and realized that baldness was androgen-dependent. He did some experiments where he gave men who had been castrated testosterone; the ones who had a family history of baldness started to go bald, so that was how he identified the genetic component. He originally called it androchronogenetic alopecia because you needed androgens, time, and genetics. We’ve known it’s androgen-dependent since then.

Next we learned more from studies by Imperato-McGinley, who studied families in the Dominican Republic who were pseudo-hermaphrodites — they were born looking like girls, with female genitals, and then at puberty they virilized, developing musculature, lower voices, and hair, and would actually develop a penis and could be fertile if they had their undescended testes surgically corrected. They were found to have a deficiency of type-2 5- reductase, the enzyme that converts testosterone into dihydrotestosterone. This was when we understood the importance of dihydrotestosterone in the process. Of course that’s what finasteride blocks; Merck developed that drug based on those studies.

Dr. Van Voorhees: What is the mechanism that accounts for the miniaturization of hair?

Dr. Cotsarelis: We know that inhibiting the testosterone pathway slows down the miniaturization of the follicle. Jaworsky, Kligman, and Murphy had a paper 20 years ago showing that half the time there is also inflammation around the hair follicle, which led to some thought that maybe inflammatory cells including mast cells were contributing to hair loss. Studies and case reports of transgender operations where men become women and receive high doses of estrogen show that a scalp that was almost completely bald can have, after castration and high estrogen supplementation, a tremendous amount of hair growth.

The overall feeling is that the follicles can be thought of as being in three states. Either they’re terminal, and they’re large, or they’re miniaturized, and they’re small, and the hair they’re creating is microscopic, or they’re in between, called indeterminate. It’s thought that follicles reach a point where they’re producing a hair so small that at that point the chance of reversing that follicle is small. There seems to be a point of no return with respect to androgen removal; even if you castrate someone who’s bald he won’t regrow all his hair. If you give him estrogen, too, he might.

Dr. Van Voorhees: Do resting stem cells remain in Androgenetic Alopecia? Do current medications used to treat Androgenetic Alopecia help us understand this process? What did this research demonstrate about the mechanism of Androgenetic Alopecia?

Dr. Cotsarelis: About a year ago Luis Garza, MD, did another study in my lab and looked at the stem cells in balding scalps of men undergoing transplants. He got tissue from the donor site and the recipient site and he actually quantitated the number of hair follicle stem cells using flow cytometry, a very accurate cutting-edge technique for quantitating the number of stem cells. And he showed that the percentage of stem cells was very similar in both areas. So the stem cells were still there even in the balding scalp where the follicles were miniaturizing.

However, he did find a population of cells that was markedly diminished in the balding scalp, and those resembled progenitor cells, the immediate progeny of stem cells. At that point we thought there must be either a lack of an activator of the stem cells preventing them from proliferating and doing their job and making hair, or maybe an inhibitor present. Using microarrays of bald and non-bald scalp in the same people, we looked at all 30,000 genes to see whether their expression levels were increased or decreased in the bald scalp. One of the genes that was markedly elevated in the bald scalp was PTGDS, prostaglandin D2 synthase.

We collaborated with Garret FitzGerald, MD, who’s an expert in prostaglandins and has done a lot of work with the COX-2 inhibitor he’s the one who actually showed that the COX-2 inhibitors have dangerous side effects. We gave him tissue from balding and non-bald scalp and he looked at the levels of PGD2 with mass spectrometry and showed that the PGD2 levels were quite high in the bald scalp. That was still just a correlation showing that there were higher levels of the genes and the lipid products in the bald scalp — we didn’t really know functionally whether that meant anything.

So then Luis worked with mouse models to assess the function of PGD2. Luis applied the PGD2 and another breakdown product, PGJ2, topically to the back of a mouse and he showed that hair growth slowed. Next, we collaborated with another group that was good at growing human hair follicles in culture. They showed that PGD2 in the culture media slowed down hair growth. So now we had functional evidence that prostaglandins played a role in hair growth. Luis also looked in the mouse, which has a better-defined hair cycle than humans because all of the hairs tend to be in the same stage whereas humans have mixtures of hair follicles in different stages of growth. In that model we showed that PGD2 started to go up during the end of the growing phase and was highest at catagen, the stage of regression. That, again, was good correlative evidence that PGD2 was inhibiting hair growth and even in a spontaneous hair cycle played a role in controlling hair growth.

There was a mouse that was made in the ’90s by Sue Fisher, who studies skin cancer; it’s a transgenic mouse that makes the COX-2 enzyme in the skin, so you drive COX-2 gene expression with keratin K14 promoters. It’s up higher in the pathway so if you overexpress COX-2 you get increases in PGD2 and also PGE2. E2 and F2 are actually known to promote hair growth — bimatoprost (Latisse) is an F2 analog. We looked at levels of D2 in that mouse, which develops alopecia, and they were sky high. E2 was also higher than the control but D2 levels were much higher. What’s amazing is if you looked at that mouse’s skin histologically the hair follicles were miniaturized and the sebaceous glands were enlarged, just like in androgenetic alopecia.

Finally, in genetic experiments done in collaboration with FitzGerald, we applied D2 to mice that lacked two different receptors that D2 binds to. The DP-1 knockout mouse had suppressed hair growth. The DP-2 (or GPR44) knockout mouse did not have inhibited hair growth.

Dr. Van Voorhees: Does this research open up possible avenues for treatment approaches that have not yet been considered? Are there currently drugs under development which might be utilized?

Dr. Cotsarelis: This work suggested that D2 was working through the GPR44 receptor to inhibit hair growth. It turns out that there are compounds under development by a number of companies to inhibit this receptor. They are being developed for asthma and allergic rhinitis. PGD2 causes bronchoconstriction — when you inhibit its receptor you relax smooth muscle so it helps with lung disorders. No one is developing a topical formulation, but we think if you did, it would be a potential treatment for alopecia.

Dr. Van Voorhees: Do you expect female pattern hair loss to have the same pathologic mechanism?

Dr. Cotsarelis: The only evidence we have is that when you take hair follicles from women, put them in the culture medium, and add D2, it inhibits their hair growth as well. But we haven’t studied women with female pattern hair loss to see if D2 is elevated there as well. The problem is that women who get hair transplants don’t have the donor scalp removed like men do; the grafts go in between existing hair follicles. The role of PGD2 in female pattern hair loss is an important question to address.

Dr. Van Voorhees: Should this allow for reversal of previously lost hairs or do you expect that it will only play a role in retaining hairs that have not yet miniaturized?

Dr. Cotsarelis: We don’t know. Like anything you’d have to test a large number of people to see how they respond. We don’t know if people who are already completely bald will regrow hair. We do know that the stem cells are present in men who are balding so if this is indeed the inhibitor preventing stem cells from making progenitor cells, there’s a possibility this would help there as well.

Dr. Van Voorhees: Why do you think there’s that threshold where miniaturization becomes non-reversible?

Dr. Cotsarelis: That’s an interesting question. There might be other genes downstream of testosterone playing a role. We already know that if you inhibit testosterone that hair doesn’t revert once it’s completely miniaturized. The fate of the hair follicle is determined very early on during development; there’s patterning, that’s why you have follicles responding to androgens on the top of the scalp and in the beard area in completely different ways. Androgen receptors are set up very early in development; I think the more we understand about that patterning the more we’ll likely be able to figure out what’s going on with hair loss.

http://www.aad.org/dermatology-worl...-blocking-pgd2-prevent-androgenetic-alopecia-
 

2020

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"In that model we showed that PGD2 started to go up during the end of the growing phase and was highest at catagen, the stage of regression. "

interesting.... so is it possible that elevated PGD2 IS THE RESULT of follicles being in telogen phase? No one can explain why EVEN AFTER castration, those excessive PGD2 levels dont't go away. Maybe the stem cell is missing most of the progenitor cells, so it tells the follicle to go into telogen phase by producing PGD2 in that area. HOW ELSE WOULD YOU EXPLAIN IT?
 

squeegee

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After castration your Cox levels are going down ......this is why. Prostaglandins are products of COX. Higher Cox= unprugulated prostagladins. finasteride works for a reason:)


Androgen Control of Cyclooxygenase Expression in the Rat Epididymis
http://www.biolreprod.org/content/63/3/775.full.pdf

In conclusion, this work has provided evidence that
COX-1 and COX-2, which are the key enzymes in the synthesis
of prostaglandins, are controlled by testicular androgens.
COX-1 mediates the stimulation of epididymal anion
(and hence fluid) secretion by neurohumoral factors, whereas
the role of COX-2, which is constitutively expressed in
the epididymis, remains unknown. Androgen regulates the
formation of the epididymal microenvironment through
regulation of COX-1.

Effect of castration on prostaglandin-mediated changes in membrane potential and prostaglandin synthesis in guinea-pig seminal vesicle tissue.
Levine N, Gerritsen ME, Carbonaro C, Tarlin N.
Abstract

Arachidonic acid stimulated an increase in transmural electrical potential difference (p.d.) in guinea-pig seminal vesicle tissue in vitro. Pretreatment with indomethacin abolished this response. Indomethacin pretreatment did not prevent the p.d. from increasing in response to theophylline. Changes in p.d. in response to arachidonic acid were greatly attenuated, and the response to theophylline was abolished in seminal vesicle tissue taken from castrated guinea-pigs. Seminal vesicles, aorta and ileum taken from castrated guinea-pigs synthesized and released more prostaglandins than did those from control animals. It is concluded that the effects of arachidonic acid on p.d. are mediated by its metabolism to prostaglandins; the inability of seminal vesicles from castrated animals to respond to arachidonic acid is not a result of a decrease in prostaglandin production, but is more likely a result of other degenerative changes attendant upon castration; and androgens appear to have some regulatory function on prostaglandin synthesis in a variety of tissues.
 
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