Re: ...
Informer said:
I find it quite perplexing , How The moddy, finds it necessary to jump into the fray, or even insert his opinion at all in these matters
The reason why involve myself is because there are thousands of lurkers who read here, and 99% of them don't fully understand the difference between Pygeum and Propecia yet. I've said this to you before. This site serves the general public, not the tiny minority who enjoy experimentation. I am all for experimentation. You posted inflammatory posts that we were out to harm people by correcting statements that SP works for hair loss. We don't base "what works" on people's anonymous posts. We base it on the data, and the data I've seen says it doesn't work. You still have the right to use it.
The problem we have here is that you think my motives are bad. How could anyone on this planet ever develop a "motive" to squelch herbal enthusiasts? I am an avid herbal enthusiast. I use several for my own personal health. I just know that hair loss is a....
(1) highly emotional
(2) depressing
(3) expensive condition to have.
My motive is to lead people down the straight and narrow so that their chances of reversing those three things are optimized. It's as simple as that. You think im out to harm people.... when in fact its the very opposite. A newbie seeing "SP works" can be risky. Why? Because I see no data supporting it, and they may use SP instead of Propecia... and have no results. At least with Propecia I know they stand a great chance of results, and results is all i care about.
Now, im aware that there is a huge gray area. Some people may not respond to Propecia or Rogaine. Some people may respond better with "extra" treatments added. I know this. That's why I suggest using experimental treatments after trying proven ones, or in conjunction with them.
HairlossTalk isn't like Hairsite, where we allow things to run rampant. If opinions ran rampant with no reality checks, nobody would know what the hell to believe and everyone would be confused. That's how hairsite is. There HAS to be some sort of guiding direction with hair loss treatments because confusion is the biggest problem. There is a guideline: Clinical Data. It's not all up for grabs like you seem to think.
The most significant factor in making this website for me was all the bullshit I saw on the web. I saw guys saying that everything from scalp massage to topical urine, *might* work for hair loss. I was confused, and I wanted someone to tell me plain and simple "What really works?". Once I found out, I wanted to help others by giving them a no-nonsense website with a scientific stance. We already have sites like hairsite, why do we need another?
Part of running a site dedicated to facts means getting involved when people post misinformation. Why? Because, for every 1 guy who says something completely false, there are 1,000 newbies get wrongly indoctrinated. Your logic says we should allow people to claim that Fabao 101 works, without commenting that Fabao is not considered a legit product, and "here's why". That is my job, to do that. That is why I made this site.
Bob Marley said it perfectly:
After years of reading Hairsite, you'll hopefully figure out that propcecia, minoxidil, nizoral are an important foundation for effectively treating hair loss.
After 15 minutes of reading HairlossTalk, you'll know how to effectively treat your hair loss.
Pretend you're a new hair loss sufferer, and go to the hairsite home page. Where is that guide to help you learn the basics about hair loss? If that need isnt being addressed by a site, then its failing as a support site, in my opinion.
informer said:
Certainly this is your website, but i find it quite odd the participation level you choose to adhere to and the influence you attempt to assert on the subjects of natural supplements.
This isnt hairsite where the ownership isn't involved at all, except to constantly ban people, which, by the way, happens nonstop over there. Don't lose your perspective and think that David doesn't do this himself. He bans people that say things he doesn't like, constantly. You are the second guy I have banned in 4 months. David has banned more people this month than I have banned in the last year.
The downsides of newbies getting misdirected by an unnatural focus on experimental treatments is much bigger, in my opinion, than with herbs in general. I've seen people try to kill themselves when one of hairsites "cutting edge" treatments didnt work. I've watched things play out for 5 years now, and consistently Ive been thankful that we've taken the direction we've taken because it has resulted in happy, mentally stable users who are consistently seeing results, and have photos to prove it, unlike anyone on the "cutting edge" treatments.
Thats the other thing I don't think you realize. We DO encourage use of experimental products, but only as supplementation to clinically proven ones. How can you think our motives are bad with this? Its obvious why we use this logic. To help people. Optimize their chances of results. Our stance is, use the clinically proven products first, and after a year, if you're not seeing the results you want, consider experimenting. Seems fair, logical, and happy joy joy to me. Everyones happy, even herbal experimental enthusiasts, no?
Why do I get involved (again) ? Maybe because I care more. Because I want my users to be critical of unverifiable claims. I want my users to know the difference between "right and wrong" or "potentially helpful and no evidence it will help" without having to ask me. I want them to know how to think scientifically. I want to educate them. The 10 doctors on our newsletter list have the same desire, and all our articles this year are going to be focused on teaching people how to think more critically. I really want to help.
It is human nature to "try what you've just heard". So I inject my two cents and like a "loving father" try to say "remember guys, only use these things as an adjunct to treatments we know will work". How could you possibly think im doing that out of ill will? I want to help.
Informer said:
You , on the other hand, find it necessary to assert your loud opinion whenever any poster posts aboutu a treatment you disagree with, as if him posting his opinion about that treatment is a personal challenge to you. I find that odd.
My enthusiasm is on behalf of the 90% of lurkers who don't know enough about the clinical data to make their own intelligent decision as to whether or not to listen to you. These people don't sit on hair loss forums all day like you do. They aren't informed enough to know that there is no data supporting saw palmetto, so I inject those facts into the discussion. Why would you get mad that I am informing them of the facts? If I was lying to them, I could see reason to take issue with me. But im Not. You in fact are not giving them the whole story, or pointing out that you are an anomoly. You just say "It Works" and they read it, and believe it.
informer said:
according to you, the poster could be making up fake nicks, and trolling many boards.
You do make fake nicks and troll the forums. Ive watched your QWEST hostname make multiple names. By the way, how is Albequerque this time of year? Unless you think HairlossTalk has tons of SP enthusiasts using QWEST and living in New Mexico.... it was you each time.
Informer said:
Pygeum, Nettles, Green Tea Extract, taken in combination, i will stack up side by side against propecia any day.
Define "stack up against"? How exactly are you going to establish which works better? This again brings me back to my main point. You can't make these claims because you have absolutely nothing other than 1 mans subjective opinion to base it on. Even I don't base the effectiveness of Propecia on my own personal experience. I had a hellish time with propecia and was rought with hypersensitive side effects. You don't see me ranting and raving that "Propecia causes major side effects!" on the forums. Why? Because I like to think im intelligent, and im aware there are hundreds of thousand of people using it with zero side effects. How is my opinion going to help anyone other than to scare them? Think "Big Picture". You aren't the center of the universe. Neither am I.
I am happy that you feel you're getting results. Unfortunately nobody can verify your claims. How many guys have posted here that they've grown hair and the pictures show absolutely nothing. Take mister "Hair Dots" for example. He thinks he's growin hair too. Ive learned to stop listening to people's opinions and focus on the available data.
Your original thread outlining what you think gave you results was left, untouched, and uncorrected by us. Remember? Two people even said "Good for you!" in response. It was *you* who then went thread to thread bitching about how HairlossTalk has ulterior motives, is out to bash herbal enthusiasts, and squelch your voice. We respected you. You didn't respect us.
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