negative results

[BDSander]

I have been on propeica for over 6 months. When I originally got on propecia my hairline wasnt in that bad of shape, however since I got on it my hair has been constantly shedding. I went to the doctors today and had him take a look at my hair and he told me that the top of my hair looks good, however that my hair line is receding. I have had a pretty negative effect with propecia. I am going to continue to use it for a year, so I can see what the results will be. My question is has anyone on the forum had a bad experience with propecia and then switched to another method and seen results.

 

[vipergts]

Yes there are many who have had negative results...myself, JDW, Nick just to name a few. I used the drug for 11 months (original Merck brand Propecia) and lost 50 percent of my density. During this time I shed like there was no tomorrow and experienced no regrowth at all. I also experienced loss of libido and testicular pain.

As soon as I stopped Propecia the first thing I noticed was my scalp felt 100 times better. The tension, pain and irritation in my scalp disappeared and I now lose very few hair each day. I think people like us are a minority, but this also goes to show that Propecia can accelerate hairloss in some. My personal theory is that some how I was too sensitive to the testosterone spike finasteride created or maybe I expereinced some kind of allergic reaction to finasteride.Guess I will never know. 99 percent of the people who respond will ask you to "hang on" for a year or "ride it out". These are your typical propecia nuthuggers and are beyond reproach. I beg to differ (just read my old posts). If you have waited 6 months already with no success then just go off the drug for a month and see what happens...I wish I had done that sooner.

 

[BDSander]

Thanks for the feedback. I havent experienced any side effects, but I am going to get off it for a month and see what happens. I think anything will be better then the current state my hair is in. I will keep you posted on the results.

 

[Johnny24601]

I am not trying to dispute people's opinions here but this is total heresy. Without proper photos from before and after you took propecia then nothing can be concluded. Not to mention the fact that it is talked about frggin constantly on this website that you must wait a MINIMUM of one year before concluding ANYTHING. It's all just so irresponsible and immature for people to come on here advising people without proper evidence and without indicating the pitfalls of their point of view and/or experience. It takes as much as 18 months to really see stabilization with finasteride and yet we have people stopping at 11 months and saying it didn't work for them. If you are not going to be patient and are going to freak out after each days hairline analysis, then you should not choose finasteride as a treatment option, it's that simple. I can appreciate an individual's anxiety after 6 months or even 10 months of not seeing what they perceive as "results", but again if you did your proper due diligence then you would come to realize that this treatment option takes time and can be a roller coaster ride.
The scientific connection between alpha-5 and hairloss is well established and it is highly unlikely, IMO, that finasteride could make hairloss worse, it just makes no sense. Many people take a step back before taking a step forward and remember the goal should never be regrowth but maintenance. It is highly likely that follicles, because of their long growth cycles, may need time to readjust to life without DHT. Of course, it is also possible that some people may have negative effects from finasteride but it does not make any sense medically and all too often people report taking a step back before taking a step forward as that is precisely what occurred with me. I have yet to see any study that concludes a potential harmful effect with finasteride (as far as hairloss is concerned).

 

[Hans Gruber]

I am not trying to dispute people's opinions here but this is total heresy. Without proper photos from before and after you took propecia then nothing can be concluded. Not to mention the fact that it is talked about frggin constantly on this website that you must wait a MINIMUM of one year before concluding ANYTHING. It's all just so irresponsible and immature for people to come on here advising people without proper evidence and without indicating the pitfalls of their point of view and/or experience. It takes as much as 18 months to really see stabilization with finasteride and yet we have people stopping at 11 months and saying it didn't work for them. If you are not going to be patient and are going to freak out after each days hairline analysis, then you should not choose finasteride as a treatment option, it's that simple. I can appreciate an individual's anxiety after 6 months or even 10 months of not seeing what they perceive as "results", but again if you did your proper due diligence then you would come to realize that this treatment option takes time and can be a roller coaster ride.
The scientific connection between alpha-5 and hairloss is well established and it is highly unlikely, IMO, that finasteride could make hairloss worse, it just makes no sense. Many people take a step back before taking a step forward and remember the goal should never be regrowth but maintenance. It is highly likely that follicles, because of their long growth cycles, may need time to readjust to life without DHT. Of course, it is also possible that some people may have negative effects from finasteride but it does not make any sense medically and all too often people report taking a step back before taking a step forward as that is precisely what occurred with me. I have yet to see any study that concludes a potential harmful effect with finasteride (as far as hairloss is concerned).

oh hes good,you should heed this advice,i was going to say the same thing but he did it so eloquently that im just going to concur with that he said

 

[vipergts]

Propecia fanclub right on cue :hump:

I do agree completly with the pictures part though. But remember everyone's experience is different and saying that Propecia just CANNOT accelerate hairloss is wrong.

I am not trying to dispute people's opinions here but this is total heresy. Without proper photos from before and after you took propecia then nothing can be concluded. Not to mention the fact that it is talked about frggin constantly on this website that you must wait a MINIMUM of one year before concluding ANYTHING. It's all just so irresponsible and immature for people to come on here advising people without proper evidence and without indicating the pitfalls of their point of view and/or experience. It takes as much as 18 months to really see stabilization with finasteride and yet we have people stopping at 11 months and saying it didn't work for them. If you are not going to be patient and are going to freak out after each days hairline analysis, then you should not choose finasteride as a treatment option, it's that simple. I can appreciate an individual's anxiety after 6 months or even 10 months of not seeing what they perceive as "results", but again if you did your proper due diligence then you would come to realize that this treatment option takes time and can be a roller coaster ride.
The scientific connection between alpha-5 and hairloss is well established and it is highly unlikely, IMO, that finasteride could make hairloss worse, it just makes no sense. Many people take a step back before taking a step forward and remember the goal should never be regrowth but maintenance. It is highly likely that follicles, because of their long growth cycles, may need time to readjust to life without DHT. Of course, it is also possible that some people may have negative effects from finasteride but it does not make any sense medically and all too often people report taking a step back before taking a step forward as that is precisely what occurred with me. I have yet to see any study that concludes a potential harmful effect with finasteride (as far as hairloss is concerned).

 

[Johnny24601]

Propecia fanclub right on cue :hump:

I do agree completly with the pictures part though. But remember everyone's experience is different and saying that Propecia just CANNOT accelerate hairloss is wrong.

How'd I know that would be your response. So you have no photos, no scientific evidence and have made your conclusions based on only 11 months of use (when it is clear that a MINIMUM of one year is required) but you think it is responsible for you to advise others?
Despite you ignorant comments, I am not some sort of finasteride apologist. I think it is without question one of the better hairloss solutions for men but I don't think it will do much of anything for regrowth and simply slows down the balding process. I question long term effects from the drug and welcome intelligent scientific based discussions (which is exactly what the reported goal of this website).
If you were informed, in your original post you would have added the fact that you have no before and after photos to confirm your opinions of your progress, that there is no scientific evidence that finasteride will ultimately make a male lose hair, that many many men report that it take's as much as 18 months before they see any degree of stabilization and that many en take a step back before taking a step forward. You did not do this......
To the original poster, everyone has different degrees of hairloss and finasteride certainly is not a solution for everyone as it comes with risk and effectiveness varies. Most of all it is a very long term treatment process. Many men report taking a step back before taking a step forward. The key is to have photographical evidence of your progress (or lack there off) and to not make snap shot evaluations based on memory, wait at least 12 months (most likely more) and then make a choice whether you think this drug is a good option for you.

 

[evildude]

I am not trying to dispute people's opinions here but this is total heresy. Without proper photos from before and after you took propecia then nothing can be concluded. Not to mention the fact that it is talked about frggin constantly on this website that you must wait a MINIMUM of one year before concluding ANYTHING. It's all just so irresponsible and immature for people to come on here advising people without proper evidence and without indicating the pitfalls of their point of view and/or experience. It takes as much as 18 months to really see stabilization with finasteride and yet we have people stopping at 11 months and saying it didn't work for them. If you are not going to be patient and are going to freak out after each days hairline analysis, then you should not choose finasteride as a treatment option, it's that simple. I can appreciate an individual's anxiety after 6 months or even 10 months of not seeing what they perceive as "results", but again if you did your proper due diligence then you would come to realize that this treatment option takes time and can be a roller coaster ride.
The scientific connection between alpha-5 and hairloss is well established and it is highly unlikely, IMO, that finasteride could make hairloss worse, it just makes no sense. Many people take a step back before taking a step forward and remember the goal should never be regrowth but maintenance. It is highly likely that follicles, because of their long growth cycles, may need time to readjust to life without DHT. Of course, it is also possible that some people may have negative effects from finasteride but it does not make any sense medically and all too often people report taking a step back before taking a step forward as that is precisely what occurred with me. I have yet to see any study that concludes a potential harmful effect with finasteride (as far as hairloss is concerned).

so now it's 18 months? :whistle:

anyway, upregulation of androgen receptors, maybe combined with increased testosterone, could lead to further hairloss in a small minority of finasteride users. this is something even doctors such as dr.proctor have suggested.

 

[Johnny24601]

"it take as much as 18 months"
Don't take my words out of context you ***. The fact is that chances that finasteride will increase hairloss is ridiculously small. The more likely scenario is simply that the patients balding rate is severe and increasing and finasteride can't keep up.
Deciding not to use finasteride because of effectiveness is irrational. The drug will at a minimum slow down the rate of hairloss. However, side effects, IMO, are real and the drug can be costly. Not to mention there is no long term data on the drug, those are REAL reasons for deciding not to use the drug.
Back to the original discussion, this website is dedicated to scientific and evidence driven discussions. Mr. Evildude has sidetracked this goal and provided advice based simply on his opinions. He makes things worse by taking my words out of context, which simply pisses me off....

 

[evildude]

studies do show that finasteride causes an upregulation of androgen receptors and testosterone levels. this could in some lead to accelerated balding due to hyperandrogenicity.though, probably accompanied with other symptoms such as oily skin, increased libido, acne etc.

so this idea that finasteride absolutely and conclusively can not "cause" hairloss is not really true. it can.

 

[SoThatsLife]

studies do show that finasteride causes an upregulation of androgen receptors and testosterone levels. this could in some lead to accelerated balding due to hyperandrogenicity.though, probably accompanied with other symptoms such as oily skin, increased libido, acne etc.

so this idea that finasteride absolutely and conclusively can not "cause" hairloss is not really true. it can.

So you get a slightly more bald and a little quicker than you would the normal way..okey, I know it sucks..But I would rather try something and then if didn't work I would at least know that I did what I could and thats that.

Either way sometime in life you got to face your baldness..Maybe now, maybe in 10 years

 

[JonnyBgood]

There's no harm in asking a doctor, I'd say. Even though you're supposed to wait 18 months, should it not have worked you will have wasted a good amount of time on one pill....

 

[evildude]

studies do show that finasteride causes an upregulation of androgen receptors and testosterone levels. this could in some lead to accelerated balding due to hyperandrogenicity.though, probably accompanied with other symptoms such as oily skin, increased libido, acne etc.

so this idea that finasteride absolutely and conclusively can not "cause" hairloss is not really true. it can.

So you get a slightly more bald and a little quicker than you would the normal way..okey, I know it sucks..But I would rather try something and then if didn't work I would at least know that I did what I could and thats that.

Either way sometime in life you got to face your baldness..Maybe now, maybe in 10 years

oh, don't get me wrong. i agree with that. the number of people who experience this is apparantly very, very small, but it can happen. however, if it does, other symptoms are usually present.

 

[Johnny24601]

An increase in T is largely due to the fact that T is being blocked from being converted into DHT so resting T levels increase. however, the DHT blockage from finasteride more then makes up for the potential negative effects (in regards to additional hairloss) from the increased T levels.
Again, based on the current scientific knowledge on hairloss and actual study results, the probability that finasteride can increase hairloss is so ridiculously small that IMO it can all but be ignored and is a waste of time compared to things like side effects and costs. In fact I have seen no clinical results to support the hypothesis that finasteride can increase hairloss. In fact I will maintain that for those who do not see results with finasteride, meaning a minimum of maintenance or drastic slowdown in rate of hairloss, simply have follicles that are too sensitive to DHT. Those who take finasteride and conclude that the drug was ineffective may have actually had results but they could not be seen because of the aggressive nature of their hairloss. Meaning, if it wasn't for finasteride these individuals would actually have been slick bald instead of say a Norwood-4. All we have is scientific data that has made the strong case that DHT sensitivity and hairloss are clearly related and also numerous studies which conclude the effectiveness of finasteride.
Now again, I am not finasteride apologist as I think sides are real and long term effects are not known, but as for effectiveness.....it is far and away the best tool for a men to battle hairloss.

 

[pproctor]

As with other "antiandrogens", finasteride (Proscar) causes "reflex hyperandrogenicity". Typically, this expresses itself as a roughly 15% increase in testosterone levels plus (in animal studies) as much as a doubling of tissue androgen receptors. Normally, this is benign and may even help minimize such antiandrogenic side-effects as libido decrease.

However, in a few persons, reflex hyperandrogenicity overshoots and causes paradoxical hyperandrogenic side-effects such as libido increase, acne flares, and increased skin oiliness. If memory serves, a patient or two with these symptoms were seen in the clinical trials.

Does finasteride-induced reflex hyperandrogenicity also exacerbate the balding process? Perhaps. However, type-2 5-AR inhibitors such as finasteride preferentially "protect" the hair follicle. So, it is doubtful exacerbation of the balding process would occur in persons who do not also exibit such other hyperandrogenic symptoms, though this cannot be totally ruled out.

Peter H Proctor, PhD,MD
http://www.doctorproctor.com

 

[abcdefg]

No one can say what propecia will do to anyone. No one can say for certain what dht does exactly and its relationships to every other hormone and molecular pathway all over any amount of time. That being said it could have negative effects on someone and anyone that says thats not true is full of crap.
On the other hand without pictures bad to one person is good to another. Blood tests, pictures. why not do both if your gonna take something for your hair? how do you even know it did anything?

 

[Guest]

how come you guys never have any picture proof? my my my, what a coincidence. it's only teh people who aren't trashing the drug who post pictures

pa-thetic.

 

[RaginDemon]

finasteride won't speed up your balding, it might not help, but it won't speed it up. This is the basic of hair loss info.

 

[ghg]

Yes there are many who have had negative results...myself, JDW, Nick just to name a few. I used the drug for 11 months (original Merck brand Propecia) and lost 50 percent of my density. During this time I shed like there was no tomorrow and experienced no regrowth at all. I also experienced loss of libido and testicular pain.

As soon as I stopped Propecia the first thing I noticed was my scalp felt 100 times better. The tension, pain and irritation in my scalp disappeared and I now lose very few hair each day. I think people like us are a minority, but this also goes to show that Propecia can accelerate hairloss in some. My personal theory is that some how I was too sensitive to the testosterone spike finasteride created or maybe I expereinced some kind of allergic reaction to finasteride.Guess I will never know. 99 percent of the people who respond will ask you to "hang on" for a year or "ride it out". These are your typical propecia nuthuggers and are beyond reproach. I beg to differ (just read my old posts). If you have waited 6 months already with no success then just go off the drug for a month and see what happens...I wish I had done that sooner.

Yo viper, how soon did the scalp pain cease after you stopped finasteride? I'm thinking about quitting since I don't like the sides. I'd love to keep my hair but finasteride doesn't seem to be doing much anyway...

And yes, I've posted a lot of pictures in the past of both my hair and the gyno finasteride caused.

 

[cal]

Finasteride's effect on male pattern baldness is overwhelmingly positive in terms of the sheer numbers. But that doesn't mean that it's incapable of screwing up hair in a small percentage. Poeple's systems just don't all react the same to powerful drugs like this. There are good reasons that stuff like finasteride is not sold OTC.