My "theory" of baldness.................in a nutshell

michael barry

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For any of you who may be newbies wondering about baldness-------------you inherit a variant of the androgen receptor gene that can express itself more or less strongly depending on genetic chance. If it expresses itself strongly with CAG-repeates, the hair outside your wreaths androgen receptor's are much more adept at uptaking male hormone, especially dihydrotestosterone. Having alot of DHT in the scalp tissue (bald men have been shown to have more DHT in their scalps, but not in the blood, indicating that the alpha five reductase enzymes in the root sheaths of each and ever hair follicle on your head are probably more active than a guy with all his hair) has been shown to be able to invigorate androgen receptors even MORE. One too much androgen is uptaken..............eventually something happens to the hair follicle and a different set of genetic instructions are obeyed within it. The dermal papilla starts cranking out way too much DKK_1, which leads to the cell death of the keratincoyetes in the root sheath........................these dead cells in turn hanging around the infidulum is probably why the immune system begins attacking the hair follicle and TGF beta and excessive collagenous deposition is downstream from it. That is probably "baldness", as the immune system is going to try to eliminate dead cells and anything around the area is going to be effected by all the infllammatory subtstances the immune system will use. Baldness looks like organ rejection microscopically. Its been shown that wreath area hairs can succumb to testosterone and DHT if experiments give enough of them to the hairs.......................so I dont believe their is some magic difference in the hair's basic characteristics but a difference in the amount of DHT the hair can make via its alpha five reductase enzyme in their root sheaths and a big difference in how well the hairs androgen receptors work and how chemcially stable they are. In a way male baldness is probably because you have too-well-working-androgen-receptors and too-well-working-alpha-five-reductase-enzymes in your hair. You are "too manly" in a place you dont want to be.



Obviously, "my theory" places the blame at DKK-1's doorstep, but its all because of too-well working androgen receptors and too well working alpha five reductase enzymes. I honestly think if you could get Brad Pitts hair to uptake the amount of androgen our follicles uptake...............he'd be going bald too, by the same mechanisms we are for the most part dependent on the intesitity of his immune systems response. Its known that the variant of the androgen receptor gene is located on the x-chromosome and comes from your mother, but the other genes in baldness are autologous (or are thought to be) and aren't parent specific. Too many androgens duing fetal development may play a role. We will know if someone ever does a study on digit ratios and baldness in a large population. Im guessing at least a small correlation will be found myself.
 

phish

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i personally feel the same way. Whats a young man with a full head nowadays got to take to just mantain hair. would his best best be topical spironolactone with finasteride and nizoral. Or what other anti androgen do we have, that will mantain hair. I think minoxidil is a waste onf people trying to mantain, so maybe reviogen and propecia best bets of mantaining?
 

Matt27

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If all of that is true then AndroScience should be a winner. Hopefully it's on the market in 2 years.
 

harold

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I dont think minoxidil is a waste even if you just want to maintain. It may not protect against the underlying causes of baldness but it also protects hair follicles against apoptosis and generally shifts things in favour of growing hair. Yeah as a topical it can be a bit of a hassle but even if you just want to keep every hair on your head and are not afraid/unable/unwilling to use internal antiandrogens/5-alpha red inhibitors you arent guaranteed that they will maintain for you. Using minoxidil you will (almosst certainly) have more on your head by the time something better comes round.
I suspect nizoral may be a better weapon than it is given credit for by, at least potentially but that may be for another thread.
hh
 

tino

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michael barry said:
For any of you who may be newbies wondering about baldness-------------you inherit a variant of the androgen receptor gene that can express itself more or less strongly depending on genetic chance. If it expresses itself strongly with CAG-repeates, the hair outside your wreaths androgen receptor's are much more adept at uptaking male hormone, especially dihydrotestosterone. Having alot of DHT in the scalp tissue (bald men have been shown to have more DHT in their scalps, but not in the blood, indicating that the alpha five reductase enzymes in the root sheaths of each and ever hair follicle on your head are probably more active than a guy with all his hair) has been shown to be able to invigorate androgen receptors even MORE. One too much androgen is uptaken..............eventually something happens to the hair follicle and a different set of genetic instructions are obeyed within it. The dermal papilla starts cranking out way too much DKK_1, which leads to the cell death of the keratincoyetes in the root sheath........................these dead cells in turn hanging around the infidulum is probably why the immune system begins attacking the hair follicle and TGF beta and excessive collagenous deposition is downstream from it. That is probably "baldness", as the immune system is going to try to eliminate dead cells and anything around the area is going to be effected by all the infllammatory subtstances the immune system will use. Baldness looks like organ rejection microscopically. Its been shown that wreath area hairs can succumb to testosterone and DHT if experiments give enough of them to the hairs.......................so I dont believe their is some magic difference in the hair's basic characteristics but a difference in the amount of DHT the hair can make via its alpha five reductase enzyme in their root sheaths and a big difference in how well the hairs androgen receptors work and how chemcially stable they are. In a way male baldness is probably because you have too-well-working-androgen-receptors and too-well-working-alpha-five-reductase-enzymes in your hair. You are "too manly" in a place you dont want to be.



Obviously, "my theory" places the blame at DKK-1's doorstep, but its all because of too-well working androgen receptors and too well working alpha five reductase enzymes. I honestly think if you could get Brad Pitts hair to uptake the amount of androgen our follicles uptake...............he'd be going bald too, by the same mechanisms we are for the most part dependent on the intesitity of his immune systems response. Its known that the variant of the androgen receptor gene is located on the x-chromosome and comes from your mother, but the other genes in baldness are autologous (or are thought to be) and aren't parent specific. Too many androgens duing fetal development may play a role. We will know if someone ever does a study on digit ratios and baldness in a large population. Im guessing at least a small correlation will be found myself.


........................these dead cells in turn hanging around the infidulum is probably why the immune system begins attacking the hair follicle and TGF beta and excessive collagenous deposition is downstream from it. That is probably "baldness", as the immune system is going to try to eliminate dead cells and anything around the area is going to be effected by all the infllammatory subtstances the immune system will use. Baldness looks like organ rejection microscopically.


This hypothesis,somehow works against the role of other genes involved in male pattern baldness.The idea of the immune attack ist ok....but i think this happens due androgenes because of failure of expression from other genes.The question is....does every men with short CAG repeats develop male pattern baldness?There are no investigations which can answer this.There are only investigations which show that men who have already male pattern baldness,have a CAG-Repeat mutation.


Tino
 

Armando Jose

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Yes, Michael, you are a very clever guy and your theory can be real, but, there is a problem:

The Pattern, what about it? when a person inherit a special variant of androgen receptor, is normal that all hairs inherit the same condition? Or not?

Armando
 

michael barry

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Info on male pattern baldness-area and occipital scalp DIFFERENCES:

Increased androgen binding capacity in sebaceous glands in scalp of male-pattern baldness.Sawaya ME, Honig LS, Hsia SL.
Department of Dermatology and Cutaneous Surgery, University of Miami School of Medicine, Florida 33101.

Sebaceous glands were isolated by manual dissection under a microscope from surgical specimens of scalp skin with male pattern baldness and skin specimens of hairy and bald scalp obtained at autopsy. The 800 X g pellet (nuclear fraction) and the 164,000 X g supernatant fraction (cytosol) of homogenates of the sebaceous glands were used for measurements of androgen binding characteristics, using dextran-coated charcoal and sucrose gradient methods. Scatchard plots showed high affinity binding for [3H]dihydrotestosterone (DHT) and [3H]methyltrienolone (R1881). Nuclei prepared from bald scalp contained greater total androgen binding capacity than nuclei of hairy scalp, although Kd values of type I binding were similar (0.68 vs 0.56 nM, respectively). On sucrose gradient, the binding protein from cytosol was found in the 7 to 8S density range. Androgen binding by cytosol of sebaceous glands of hairy scalp had Kd of 1.89 +/- .79 and 2.05 +/- .56 nM for DHT and R1881, respectively, and Bmax of 18.7 +/- 4.4 and 20.0 +/- 4.6 fmol/mg protein for DHT and R1881, respectively. Cytosol from sebaceous glands of bald scalp had Kd values approximately half those of hairy scalp, and Bmax values 50%-100% higher. The bound 3H labeled DHT and R1881 could be partially displaced by testosterone (40-50%), moxestrol (28-32%), promegestone (19-26%), and delta 4-androstenedione (6-12%), but not by dehydroepiandrosterone. These data demonstrate the presence of specific androgen binding protein in sebaceous glands, and that sebaceous glands of bald scalp have greater binding affinity and capacity for androgens than those in hairy scalp. This difference may explain the greater androgenic response in androgenic alopecia.

PMID: 2909628 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Post reply



ON GENETICS AND male pattern baldness:


Its known that the variant of the androgen receptor gene is located on the
> x-chromosome and comes from your mother, but the other genes in baldness

An ectodysplasin gene (which is located on the X chromosome, near the AR gene) has now been linked to male pattern baldness. The ectodysplasin signalling system has already been shown to be important in hair biology...do a search on Pubmed for more details. You'll be hearing about this study in the lay media pretty soon, I'm sure:

J Invest Dermatol. 2008 Apr 3 [Epub ahead of print]

EDA2R Is Associated with Androgenetic Alopecia.

Prodi DA, Pirastu N, Maninchedda G, Sassu A, Picciau A, Palmas MA, Mossa A, Persico I, Adamo M, Angius A, Pirastu M.

1Shardna Life Sciences, Pula, Italy.

Androgenetic alopecia (Androgenetic Alopecia) is a common heritable polygenic disorder whose genetics is not fully understood, even though it seems to be X-linked. We carried out an epidemiological survey for Androgenetic Alopecia on 9,000 people from 8 isolated villages of a secluded region of Sardinia (Ogliastra), and identified a large cohort of affected individuals. We genotyped 200 cases and 200 controls (mean kinship 0.001) with the 500k chip array and conducted case-control association analysis on the X chromosome. We identified Xq11-q12 as strongly associated with Androgenetic Alopecia. In particular, we found that rs1352015 located 8 kb from the EDA2R gene showed the best result (P=7.77e(-7)). This region also contains the AR gene, hence we tested both genes in 492 cases and 492 controls. We found that the non-synonymous SNP rs1385699 on EDA2R gave the best result (P=3.9e(-19)) whereas rs6152 on the AR gene is less significant (P=4.17e(-12)). Further statistical analysis carried out by conditioning each gene to the presence of the other showed that the association with EDA2R is independent while the association with AR seems to be the result of linkage disequilibrium. These results give insight into the pathways involved in Androgenetic Alopecia etiology.

Journal of Investigative Dermatology advance online publication, 3 April 2008;

doi:10.1038/jid.2008.60.

PMID: 18385763 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]






On the Hippocratic wreath and male pattern baldness:
Article

Min Zhang 1, Anna Brancaccio 2, Lorin Weiner 1, Caterina Ectodysplasin regulates pattern formation in the mammalian hair coat Missero 2, Janice L. Brissette 1 *
1Cutaneous Biology Research Center, Massachusetts General Hospital and Harvard Medical School, Charlestown, Massachusetts, USA
2Telethon Institute of Genetics and Medicine (TIGEM), Naples, Italy

email: Janice L. Brissette (janice.brissette@cbrc2.mgh.harvard.edu)

*Correspondence to Janice L. Brissette, Cutaneous Biology Research Center, Massachusetts General Hospital-East, Bldg. 149, 13th St., Charlestown, MA 02129

Funded by:
National Institutes of Health
Cutaneous Biology Research Center through the Massachusetts General Hospital/Shiseido Co. Ltd. Agreement
Italian Telethon Foundation
TIGEM with funding from Regione Campania

Keywords
Eda • tabby • ectodermal dysplasia • ED1 • Edar


Abstract
Summary: develoIn mammalian skin, hair follicles develop at regular intervals and with site-specific morphologies. This process generates distinct patterns of hair, but the mechanisms that establish these patterns remain largely unknown. Here we present evidence of follicular patterning by ectodysplasin-A1 (Eda-A1), a signaling protein necessary for the proper development of hair and other appendages. In transgenic mice, Eda-A1 was targeted to the epithelial compartment of the ping skin. At periodic locations, multiple hair follicles were induced side by side, without any interfollicular space. These follicles grew into the dermis as a fusion and subsequently branched to create discrete stalks and hair bulbs. Thus, at sites where interfollicular skin normally forms, hair follicles developed instead. This result shows that Eda-A1 can regulate basic developmental decisions, as cells were switched from interfollicular to follicular fates. Given these effects, it is likely that Eda-A1 is among the key regulators of pattern formation in the skin. genesis 37:30-37, 2003. © 2003 Wiley-Liss, Inc.

Me again............perhaps this 'Ectodermal-A1' gene is the one that makes the decisions as your head skin grows up over your head in fetal development and determines where your most androgen-sensitive hair will be (the shape of your hippocratic wreath), or where your best working androgen-receptors will be (Im basing this on a study I saw that showed androgen receptors in sebaceous glands in male pattern baldness subjects were much better at uptaking androgens that receptors from sweat glands from occipital scalp). A working "guess" is forming anyway in my mind about it. Here is another study showing that ectodysplasin 'gene' and the development of the sweat glands (Do you remember how Stephen Foote used to go on about how bald areas of scalp are better at sweating than hairy areas of scalp? Maybe this is a reason why--



--other than the sweat glands in bald scalp receptor-sites probably have more available testosterone around due to the tiny vellus hairs not having as many androgen receptors available to uptake androgen in a competing sense physically:
[Relationship of ectodysplasin gene signaling with development and regeneration of sweat glands][Article in Chinese]


Zhou G, Li H, Fu X.
Key Research Laboratory of the Wound Repair, the 304th Clinical Department, General Hospital of PLA, Beijing, 100037, P.R. China.

OBJECTIVE: To investigate the expression of ectodysplasin (EDA) gene signaling and its relationship with the development and regeneration of sweat glands. METHODS: The articles concerned in the latest years were extensively reviewed. RESULTS: EDA gene is an important signaling pathway associated with the developmental procedure of sweat glands in early fetal stage. Abnormality or depletion of function in sweat glands partially owed to the defect of EDA gene. CONCLUSION: EDA signaling has its biological significance in inducing development and morphogenesis of sweat glands and in maintaining physiological function of skin. It could be a new approach to repair or regenerate the sweat glands for clinical therapy by regulating the expression of EDA gene.

PMID: 16752854 [PubMed - in process]




ON GENES AND DERMAL TISSUES:


http://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/gene=eda

(maybe this gene set being active in a particular way along with a particular variant of the AR-gene are what is necessary for male pattern baldness-to be inherited. I wonder if they can "block" what is necessary in pregnant mothers someday----not that this will help us)

Reviewed August 2006
What is the official name of the EDA gene?
The official name of this gene is “ectodysplasin A.â€￾

EDA is the gene's official symbol. The EDA gene is also known by other names, listed below.

What is the normal function of the EDA gene?
The EDA gene provides instructions for making a protein called ectodysplasin A. This protein is part of a signaling pathway that plays an important role in development before birth. Specifically, it is critical for interactions between two embryonic cell layers called the ectoderm and the mesoderm. In the early embryo, these cell layers form the basis for many of the body's organs and tissues. Ectoderm-mesoderm interactions are essential for the formation of several structures that arise from the ectoderm, including the skin, hair, nails, teeth, and sweat glands.

The EDA gene provides instructions for producing many slightly different versions of ectodysplasin A. One version, ectodysplasin A1, interacts with a protein called the ectodysplasin A receptor (produced from the EDAR gene). On the cell surface, ectodysplasin A1 attaches to this receptor like a key in a lock. When these two proteins are connected, they trigger a series of chemical signals that affect cell activities such as division, growth, and maturation. Before birth, this signaling pathway controls the formation of ectodermal structures such as hair follicles, sweat glands, and teeth.

How are changes in the EDA gene related to health conditions?
hypohidrotic ectodermal dysplasia - caused by mutations in the EDA gene
More than 80 different mutations in the EDA gene have been identified in people with hypohidrotic ectodermal dysplasia. These mutations cause the X-linked form of the disorder, which accounts for 95 percent of all cases of hypohidrotic ectodermal dysplasia. (X-linked disorders are caused by mutations in genes on the X chromosome, one of the two sex chromosomes.)

Some mutations in the EDA gene change single DNA building blocks (base pairs), whereas other mutations insert or delete genetic material in the gene. These changes lead to the production of a nonfunctional version of the ectodysplasin A protein. This abnormal protein cannot trigger chemical signals needed for normal interactions between the ectoderm and the mesoderm. Without these signals, hair follicles, teeth, sweat glands, and other ectodermal structures do not form properly, leading to the characteristic features of hypohidrotic ectodermal dysplasia.

Where is the EDA gene located?
Cytogenetic Location: Xq12-q13.1

Molecular Location on the X chromosome: base pairs 68,752,635 to 69,176,046
 

bornthisway

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DKK-1 is also used by immune cells and upregulated by BMP-4.
DKK-1 is also heavily upregulated by UV irradiation, DNA damage, and other genotoxic stimuli.
Inhibition of DKK-1 may cause some cells to enter a proliferative state. Since DKK-1 regulates the WNT pathway, the absence of DKK-1 may potentially hinder proper cell development, including cell apoptosis, such that cells may not die similar to what we see in cancer - the cell growth is no longer regulated. Though, it was shown even relatively low levels of DKK-1 expression is sufficient to induce cell death and inhibit tumor growth (in mice). When DKK-1 is over expressed, it prevents dendrite cell growth leading to failure in immune response - dendritic cells present antigen to other immune cells to mount a response.
So, too much DKK-1 or too little DKK-1 expression can be deleterious. Assuming the overexpression of DKK-1 is enough to interrupt proper immune response (if this is an underlying cause of Androgenetic Alopecia), we still need to understand how much DKK-1 can be safely inhibited and for what periods, as well as how to achieve this.
More importantly, understanding the mechanisms behind prolonged DKK-1 overexpression (or upregulation of any of the many negative growth factors) seems key to developing a more targeted and safer solution (which may be a very long ways away).
 

Armando Jose

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michael barry said:
Info on male pattern baldness-area and occipital scalp DIFFERENCES:

Increased androgen binding capacity in sebaceous glands in scalp of male-pattern baldness.Sawaya ME, Honig LS, Hsia SL.
Department of Dermatology and Cutaneous Surgery, University of Miami School of Medicine, Florida 33101.

Sebaceous glands were isolated by manual dissection under a microscope from surgical specimens of scalp skin with male pattern baldness and skin specimens of hairy and bald scalp obtained at autopsy.

Yeah, I know this study but I would like to know what will ocurr with the result in healthy persons, not in afected people with common baldness. Till then, I am convinced that in healthy persons don´t have these differences in androgen binding capacity.

Armando
 

michael barry

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Till then, I am convinced that in healthy persons don´t have these differences in androgen binding capacity.

Armando


Of course they dont, thats the point androgenic uptake in people with male pattern baldness is much greater than people without it
 

michael barry

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DKK-1 is also used by immune cells and upregulated by BMP-4.
DKK-1 is also heavily upregulated by UV irradiation, DNA damage, and other genotoxic stimuli.
Inhibition of DKK-1 may cause some cells to enter a proliferative state. Since DKK-1 regulates the WNT pathway, the absence of DKK-1 may potentially hinder proper cell development, including cell apoptosis, such that cells may not die similar to what we see in cancer - the cell growth is no longer regulated. Though, it was shown even relatively low levels of DKK-1 expression is sufficient to induce cell death and inhibit tumor growth (in mice). When DKK-1 is over expressed, it prevents dendrite cell growth leading to failure in immune response - dendritic cells present antigen to other immune cells to mount a response.
So, too much DKK-1 or too little DKK-1 expression can be deleterious. Assuming the overexpression of DKK-1 is enough to interrupt proper immune response (if this is an underlying cause of Androgenetic Alopecia), we still need to understand how much DKK-1 can be safely inhibited and for what periods, as well as how to achieve this.
More importantly, understanding the mechanisms behind prolonged DKK-1 overexpression (or upregulation of any of the many negative growth factors) seems key to developing a more targeted and safer solution (which may be a very long ways away).



If this is the case............................we are back to inhibiting alpha five and inhibiting the androgen receptor and applying a stimulant and hoping for the best (what I do now).
 

bornthisway

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Here were some of the articles I had read, forgot to post the sources.

The Wnt antagonist Dickkopf-1 is regulated by Bmp signaling and c-Jun and modulates programmed cell death
http://www.nature.com/emboj/journal/v21 ... 4314a.html

Human Dkk-1, a gene encoding a Wnt antagonist, responds to DNA damage and its overexpression sensitizes brain tumor cells to apoptosis following alkylation damage of DNA
http://www.nature.com/onc/journal/v21/n ... 5138a.html

Context-Dependent Activation or Inhibition of Wnt-?-Catenin Signaling by Kremen
http://stke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/ ... s;1/8/pe10

Induction of Dickkopf-1, a Negative Modulator of the Wnt Pathway, Is Associated with Neuronal Degeneration in Alzheimer's Brain
http://www.jneurosci.org/cgi/content/full/24/26/6021

Dickkopf-1 Activates Cell Death in Melanoma Cells
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articl ... id=1810964

-------------------

Regarding topical lithium to regulate DKK-1:

Immortal Hair had posted a patent which inspired his lithium topical:
http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/abstract/102/48/17406

The following are all opinions of Immortal Hair as to how he derived his topical.

Topical Lithium Orotate & DMSO + caffeine
DMSO is a co-factor with Lithium Orotate, as Lithium downregulates glycogen synthase kinase-3beta (GSK-3b). GSK-3b inhibits the activity of the Wnt pathway. Lithium suppresses GSK-3b, allowing an increase in Wnt signaling via DSMO. Moreover, GSK-3b upregulates the apoptoic protein Bcl-2, while Lithium reduces Bcl-2 and upregulates Bax, sparing cells and reducing sebum.

Lrp5-independent activation of Wnt signaling by lithium chloride increases bone formation and bone mass in mice
http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/abstract/102/48/17406

Further, a highly negative modulator of the Wnt pathway and hair follicle health, Dickkopf-1 is suppressed by Lithium. Dickkopf-1 which is initially signalled by DHT, sends an apoptoic cascade (programmed cell death) to hair follicles.

Per 8 oz. bottle of non-SLS shampoo, I use the following:
1 & 1/2 teaspoons to 2 teaspoons of crushed Lithium pills (or powder)

1 tsp of DMSO liquid (99%) Note: If you have sensitive skin use a 50 to 70% solution.

1/2 tsp to 2 tsp of Caffeine (depending upon sensitivity). Leave on for 30 seconds, then rinse. The caffeine will absorb very quickly, there is no need to leave it on longer than 30-seconds.

According to page 79 of the following study, topical caffeine significantly inhibits DHT. In the study concentrations of caffeine between 0.001% & 0.005% were used. My suggestion is to use 1/2 to 2 teaspoons (depending upon sensitivity) of powered caffeine per 8 oz container of shampoo. Or to add 10 grams per 8 oz. of water and use a spray-on applicator. Leave on for 30 seconds, then rinse. The caffeine will absorb very quickly, there is no need to leave it on longer than 30-second

http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB/pr ... =92842.pdf


I believe some users at Regrowth inspired by Immortal Hair were using lithium topically, I don't know how effective it was but it seems there were many debates over it's efficacy and safety (potential risk for cancer), but the concentrations being used topically are much smaller than what was seen to cause cell proliferation in mice (1% of their diet).

Research seems pretty divided on lithium treatment but it seems those receiving chronic lithium treatment have not reported an increased incidence for cancer.

Lrp5-independent activation of Wnt signaling by lithium chloride increases bone formation and bone mass in mice
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articl ... id=1297659

"Several other issues must be considered before contemplating the use of lithium as a bone anabolic agent in humans. For example, it is essential to determine whether alterations associated with lithium therapy might be cancer predisposing. Transcriptional activation of Wnt1 expression in mice causes mammary tumors (48), and loss-of-function mutations in the ?-catenin stabilizer APC predispose to malignant colon cancer in humans (49). Short-term lithium therapy (60 days) in mice with a cancer predisposing Apc mutations did not cause an increased rate of tumor formation, but did cause a modest increase in tumor size (25). Importantly, increased rates of cancer have not been reported in patients receiving chronic lithium therapy (50). A second theoretical consideration is whether deposition of lithium ions in bone matrix could have detrimental effects on the material properties of bone. Our results indicate that lithium may be useful in increasing bone mass in humans. Although its greatest efficacy may be in patients with mutant LRP5 receptors, it may also be effective for other forms of osteopenia and osteoporosis. It was also recently demonstrated that inhibition of Wnt signaling was associated with lytic bone lesions in patients with multiple myeloma (51, 52), and it is reasonable to anticipate that lithium therapy might also be beneficial for myeloma related bone disease. Well powered prospective studies of bone metabolism in humans receiving lithium therapy for bipolar illness should help address this possibility."

Just like those in the finasteride study (5mg) that developed prostate cancer had a small increased risk for high-malignancy cancer, there are potential drawbacks with all types of treatment. We need to understand how much a small concentration of lithium inhibits DKK-1 and if there are any negative systemic effects from long term usage for hair maintenance -- as well as it's efficacy.

Lithium gluconate could be an alternative but it has too short of a study period and again we don't know if it will have growth effects.

Lithium gluconate in the treatment of seborrhoeic dermatitis: a multicenter, randomised, double-blind study versus placebo

http://www.jle.com/fr/revues/medecine/e ... article.md

"This study shows that lithium gluconate ointment is an effective and safe therapy for seborrhoeic dermatitis, with 29.1% of complete remission after 8 weeks of treatment and a global score including partial remission of 90%. To our knowledge, this is the second [7] published study taking into account the complete remission of erythema and desquamation. This point appears of interest, because it allows us to appreciate the real efficiency of the molecule and to answer the hopes of the patient which are not a partial remission.

The tolerance of the product was good, stretching and pruritus which were the most frequent adverse events were mainly mild to moderate. No cutaneous side effects as reported with the use of systemic lithium in psychiatric disorders were noted: mainly papulo squamous changes, induction of psoriasisform lesions, acne or pustulous lesions. The exact mechanism of action of lithium gluconate in seborrhoeic dermatitis still remains unknown. Interestingly, it appears different from systemic lithium which has been shown in psychiatric patients [8] to increase the production of inflammatory cytokines (TNF* and IL6). Indeed, with the topical application of lithium, an anti-inflammatory effect is noted. Some hypotheses can be put foward. It could act by inhibiting Malasezzia furfur which colonizes the cutaneous lesions. Indeed, in vitro [9, 10] it has been shown that lithium salt could inhibit the proliferation of Malassezia furfur at concentrations similar to those used in seborrhoeic dermatitis. This inhibiting effect on Malassezia furfur would be mainly related to an inhibition by lithium salts of the production of free fatty acids necessary to the growth of Malassezia furfur [11]. However, in this study, the percentage of positive samplings remains similar both before and after treatment in both the lithium group and in the placebo group. Lithium gluconate could also act by an anti-inflammatory activity by inhibiting the production of arachidonic acid [12] which is the first step inducing the production of leucotrienes and prostaglandines. In vitro [13, 14], it has been shown that lithium salts inhibited the production of prostaglandins E1, E2 and thromboxane B2. Concerning the increase of lithium serum after 1 month of treatment in our study, remaining stable after 2 months of treatment, it indicates that 8% lithium gluconate ointment is able to go through the skin, however the increase to 4.4 µg/l remains very far from the toxic level which is 9000 µg/l and finally remains very low compared with patients treated by systemic lithium. "
Also:
"Conclusions Lithium was 22% more effective than ketoconazole in giving complete remission of seborrhoeic dermatitis, with comparable safety"
http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/ab ... alCode=bjd
 

michael barry

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According to page 79 of the following study, topical caffeine significantly inhibits DHT. In the study concentrations of caffeine between 0.001% & 0.005% were used. My suggestion is to use 1/2 to 2 teaspoons (depending upon sensitivity) of powered caffeine per 8 oz container of shampoo. Or to add 10 grams per 8 oz. of water and use a spray-on applicator. Leave on for 30 seconds, then rinse. The caffeine will absorb very quickly, there is no need to leave it on longer than 30-second

http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB/pr ... =92842.pdf


That study says that in ex vivo cultures (whole hair follicles in test tubes outside the body), caffeine negated the suppressive effect of TESTOSTERONE (not DHT). It didn't say anything about inhibiting alpha five reductase from converting T to DHT, and it wasn't tested against pure DHT, but the less-intensley-binding-testosterone (DHT has a four to five times slower dissassociation rate from the androgen receptor). Caffeine hasn't ever been shown to be an alpha five reductase inhibitor. I dont know by what mechanism it increased hairgrowth over controls, and maybe it does something downstream topically (hell, maybe it counteracts DKK-1), but your wording of "inhibits DHT" makes me think of an anti-androgen, and we have no evidence of that (believe me, Ive looked). That being said maybe it is a way to stop baldness....I wish they'd do a study and see if it did over a year or two, but none seem forthcoming.



Topical Lithium Orotate & DMSO + caffeine
DMSO is a co-factor with Lithium Orotate, as Lithium downregulates glycogen synthase kinase-3beta (GSK-3b). GSK-3b inhibits the activity of the Wnt pathway. Lithium suppresses GSK-3b, allowing an increase in Wnt signaling via DSMO. Moreover, GSK-3b upregulates the apoptoic protein Bcl-2, while Lithium reduces Bcl-2 and upregulates Bax, sparing cells and reducing sebum

Do you now think it safe to promote wnt in vivo? Both these substances will up wnt (did you know that green tea suppresses wnt? that always worried me), and lithium will suppress DKK-1. Do you now think its safe to suppress DKK-1? In my previous post I suggested that it would be interesting to test a DKK-1 inhibitor to see if further baldness was stopped and if inflammation was stopped, but you seemed to indicate that would be unsafe.




I kinda have formulated an idea in my mind about baldness. If the first inflammation is seen at the infidulum, we have to find out what is happening there that is causing the immune system to attack this area. It would seem to be one of two things (to me anyway). Either DNA damage is manifesting itself here downstream of capases................or apoptic dead cells are dying here or have gotten to here about the time the immune system recognizes them and begins to call in the cavalary to attack the follicle. TGF beta is upstream of capases, and DKK-1 causes apoptosis in keratinocytes. I need to check and see if TGF-beta causes apoptosis of any hair follicle cell directly.......................


I can think of a shampoo regimiine with a anti-androgen and a growth stimulant right off the top of my head.........Tricomin shampoo. It has peppermint oil and tricomin peptides in it. I know peppermint oil is an effective anti-androgen for a fact, it reduced the living hell out of my beard hair on my chin to the extent that my chin looked lopsided. Its supposed to be left in for three to five minutes accordind to the bottle. Tricomin spray is basically the same thing with menthol and peptides.
There are two regrowth photos on this page, http://www.tricomin.com/pages/why.html with tricomin. You have to move your cursor over the picture of the second set of photos to come up. They were at six months. Im big on photos of regrowth in humans being as they are the only real proof we have. Along with Bryans prox-n photo in the photo gallery and the apple poly photo.................and one fluridil photo and the "big three" photo of Martin in the photo gallery, those pics are pretty decent. Revivogen has a couple of decent ones on their site also.
 

bornthisway

Established Member
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Hey MB, I wasn't able to read your last post as I have to run but, I wanted to mention all in italics is from the user Immortal Hair whose combination was used over on the Regrowth forums,
his website: http://www.freewebs.com/immortalhair/topicals.htm
I believe he's been using the lithium combination in shampoo for over a year, I really don't think DKK-1 inhibition is something I'd necessarily be attempting right now since I don't know what concentration would safely lower DKK-1 expression, I was just presenting some perspectives on lithium. Even with the lithium gluconate study, I mostly just wanted to show what researchers thought about lithium treatment (they've divided) and that the study period there was too short as well.
 

indie85

Established Member
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23
Interesting, I always find your analysis excellent MB, I was wondering on your views on menthol... I have just come across a new topical that contains it but has already some very promising regrowth pictures (its not the main active by any means). I guess it decreasing hair on your beard is good because in theory it should do the opposite on the scalp?
 
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