My injured man's workout

yello911

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Hi CCS,

Here are a couple links on proper squatting technique:

http://stronglifts.com/how-to-squat-with-proper-technique-fix-common-problems/

http://www.topendsports.com/fitness/technique-squat.htm

Please note in these articles (and there are plenty more), The knees should NOT go past the toes! It is not impossible, it just takes practice and balance. You've spent a long time doing it the wrong way and now you have to unlearn it. Yes, I see people all the time go past their knees and I assure you, eventually they will injure themselves :agree: . Squats seem funky to do in the proper form at first and it may feel like you are going to fall on your butt. That is why I recommended holding the bar in front of you to start. It sort of counter balances you. Putting weights under your toes helps proper form too. Keep stretching and practicing this with no weights for a while. You'll get the hang of it, trust me, if I did, you can too.

So holding weights in front of you hurts your biceps? Your triceps hurt in another position? Again, I see muscle imbalance. If I were you, I would stay away from isolation exercises like curls for a while (especially if you can only do one exercise that builds one part of the bicep but not the other). I wouldn't worry about doing any specific arm exercises either for a while. Your arms are already involved with many other compound exercises like rows and bench and will build strength in a more balanced form. Compound exercises don't pump up individual muscles the way isolation does, however, injuries don't pump up your muscles at all! Additionally, I would focus on lifting weights in a slow and contolled manner for right now. Going extra slow while focusing on the return stroke of an exercise is called a "negative" (just in case you didn't already know). These are excellent for strengthening connective tissue as long as you don't overdo it.

You are right about bench and curls. They are a cheap exercise in that all you need is a bench and some weights. But rows are cheap too. Just flip over on the bench onto your stomach, grab a pair of dumbells and bingo, you are doing rows. Lie back on your backside, place a barbell up and over your chest, bend your arms down over your head and voila, you are doing tricep extentions.

Lastly, I think the absolute best thing to do is hire a qualified personal trainer to actually physically show you a great routine, proper form, and recovery advice. They don't cost as much as you think, especially in comparison to the alternative which is spending thousands on surgeries and therapy. Just a few sessions the first month and then a couple every other month to mix things up and go over your progress. Keep us updated!
 

CCS

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If you can do a one leg squat, you are in really good shape. I don't know many people who can. Definitely a good goal to shoot for. Very useful ability.
 

CCS

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I just looked at like 50 pictures of squats on bodybuilding.com articles and on google image search. In every single one of them, the knees were past the toes. could someone show me a side view pictures of a squat at the bottom of the lift with the knees not past the toes?
 

yello911

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images


http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://z.about.com/d/exercise/1/5/6/M/chairsquat.jpg&imgrefurl=http://exercise.about.com/od/exerciseworkouts/ss/howtosquat.htm&usg=__fxJ9JitAHZC5IJFBWivLgjLS1hg=&h=344&w=400&sz=19&hair loss=en&start=10&tbnid=OV5FWkGfnm2i9M:&tbnh=107&tbnw=124&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsquats%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DG

images


2371690468_7e2d8e4ccc.jpg


images
 

CCS

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yello911 said:
images


http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://z.about.com/d/exercise/1/5/6/M/chairsquat.jpg&imgrefurl=http://exercise.about.com/od/exerciseworkouts/ss/howtosquat.htm&usg=__fxJ9JitAHZC5IJFBWivLgjLS1hg=&h=344&w=400&sz=19&hair loss=en&start=10&tbnid=OV5FWkGfnm2i9M:&tbnh=107&tbnw=124&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsquats%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DG

images


2371690468_7e2d8e4ccc.jpg


images

OK, most of them look even. The guy in the top picture is clearly past the toes though.

Looks like only the guy in the bottom picture has the perfect form. The rest of them are at least an inch past, with the top guy a good 3 inches past.

In order to couter balance the weight of your rear, you got to have a heavy enough weight that is forwards of your heals, but not far enough forwards to put weight on the toes.
 

yello911

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CCS said:
yello911 said:
images



OK, most of them look even. The guy in the top picture is clearly past the toes though.

Looks like only the guy in the bottom picture has the perfect form. The rest of them are at least an inch past, with the top guy a good 3 inches past.

In order to couter balance the weight of your rear, you got to have a heavy enough weight that is forwards of your heals, but not far enough forwards to put weight on the toes.


Naw, I think that is just an illusion because of the way his right knee blends in. Regardless, he's got good form. If he was over his knees, his posture would be completely different.

Anyway, proper squats are hard to do at first because you have to unlearn the old and also your hips are probably very tight. First things first, practice with your arms straight out in front of you with no weights at all. The best thing would be to hire a qualified professional trainer to physically show you proper form. The other thing would be to never listen or copy random people at the gym. Chances are, even if they are big, they could be doing something harmful. My $0.02.
 

ali777

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Slartibartfast said:
ali777 said:
I walk long distances and I run regularly, I don't think my muscles are weak but I just don't understand why my knee ligaments are so susceptible to different types of shoes.
Pronation?

Nah.. I've looked at it, that's not it..

I think some shoes are just poorly designed and they affect the bio-mechanics of walking/running.
 

yello911

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seaback said:
hey CCS,

Don't worry too much about your knees, even if you don't have THE perfect position, you can start working out, and you will adjust your position after some practice. Just be careful you don't hurt your back with an over-arched position. Back MUST be as straight as possible, even if "leaning" (I'm not sure about that word, I hope you see what I mean).
About the one-leg squat, you can help you with a chair or whatever you want you can lean on.

I totally agree with you about the one legged squat. It's a very effective exercise and helps strengthen your stabilizer muscles due to lateral instability.

I disagree about not having proper form. If you can't do an exercise correctly, it's not worth doing at all. You can build muscle using bad form right up until the time you injure yourself. Then you end up not doing that exercise anymore (which was CCS's case in point). I'm assuming because of your limited concern about about proper form, you are probably in your early to mid 20's. Your body adapt and heals much quicker at this age and you almost feel invincible. Generally at my gym, I see younger people throwing around weights like madmen and people who are 30+ lifting lighter weights with proper form. Just wait until you find out how devastating a knee injury is Seaback (or just about any injury for that matter). It absolutely sucks and I guarantee CCS agrees with me on that one.

Formula: Proper form before weight. If you can't use proper form, you are using too much weight.
 

yello911

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Yeah, I think I did misunderstand you. You are right, it will take some time and practice to get perfect form. And I think we both agree to start out "light" while perfecting the form. :)
 

CCS

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You guys don't have to worry about me doing weighted squats any time soon. I'm afraid of those. But I will do body weight squats and watch the mirror to see where my knees are. I'll put weights under my toes to help.

I'd like to hire a trainer to watch my form and tell my how balanced my favorite exercises are. But I get the feeling that any buff guy who do the exercises in any form can go apply for a job and get one at the gym. I'd need a way to know someone actually is an expert, and that they've heard all the arguments out there and have authoritative rebutals to each.

As for the bicep/back exercise that is opposite the bench press: what did you say that was? I love seated cable rows. Do those oppose the bench press? They don't hurt my elbow as much as lat pull downs do.
 

yello911

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CCS said:
You guys don't have to worry about me doing weighted squats any time soon. I'm afraid of those. But I will do body weight squats and watch the mirror to see where my knees are. I'll put weights under my toes to help.

I'd like to hire a trainer to watch my form and tell my how balanced my favorite exercises are. But I get the feeling that any buff guy who do the exercises in any form can go apply for a job and get one at the gym. I'd need a way to know someone actually is an expert, and that they've heard all the arguments out there and have authoritative rebutals to each.

As for the bicep/back exercise that is opposite the bench press: what did you say that was? I love seated cable rows. Do those oppose the bench press? They don't hurt my elbow as much as lat pull downs do.

Yeah, seated cable rows oppose bench press. Imagine your are doing the return stroke of a bench press but having the resistance of weight on this return stroke instead of on the push stroke like a bench press. If you do the seated cable row, try and grab a bar the simulates the grip you use on bench. However, your best bet is to constantly mix up grip positions in either row or bench to strengthen the muscles used in multiple plains. Additionally, try other forms of rows too, whether it be with a dumbell or barbell. Do a weight light enough that doesn't hurt any part of your body. Work your way up to heavier weights slowly until your weak spots can support the weight.

Every decent gym should have a "certified" personal trainer on staff. I hired an old fraternity brother of mine who is not only certified but also has a degree in physiology. Anyway, don't be afraid to talk to more than one before you make your decision. Lastly, a good one is probably going to steer you away from your "favorite" exercises. Usually your favorite exercises come from the fact that you are good at doing them and they are easier for you. You will probably find that the trainer will have you do many new exercises that are awkward and challenging. This usually stems from the fact they are trying to get you to strengthen up weak points along with opening up new neural pathways.
 

Obsidian

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Thanks yello for posting that, I have only been doing squats for a month and I have been doing them wrong from those photos.
 
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