My 2 Year Report of Topical Finasteride

[hemingway_the_mercenary]

First of all, does it work... YES
Does it get systemic? Also YES

I've used such an array of different dosages anywhere from 20mg/ml to 0.05mg/ml. I had the same sides as oral finasteride at above 5mg/ml but lowering the dose did help initially but then my sides became more aggressive (finasteride sides just get more aggressive with time if you don't stop, it doesn't matter if oral or topical).

For the past 8 or so months I've been using below 1mg/ml, around 0.1mg/ml but sometimes lower. At 0.05mg/ml (4ml to cover the scalp) I still had moderate sides but they improved noticeably within 2-3 days of stopping and were significantly reduced by 2 weeks after stopping. However, at this does I found it to be less effective than oral finasteride for hairless, still effective but I definitely noticed that I was loosing ground faster.

At around 0.125-0.2mg/ml I would say it's as effective as oral finasteride with about 1/3 to 1/2 the potential for side effects.

I've used many different vehicles for it, liposomes, ethosomes, alcohol solutions, and so on and what I can tell you I that at this low of a dosage it really doesn't matter what vehicle you use as long as it's not water. Topical absorption becomes more challenging the more drug you are trying to deliver, which is why less potent drugs like AR blockers such as CB, OH-Flut, RU, etc. are not able to stop balding for most men when applied topically (they aren't able to reach the follicle in sufficient concentration to block the AR). BUT finasteride is hundreds of times more potent than these drugs so topical absorption is never a challenge for it. You can use whatever vehicle you prefer, I don't think it will make any difference.

Would I recommend the sinstead of oral finasteride? Yes, if you are concerned about side effects down the road. This will help delay the onset of side effects from finasteride while still being able to delay your hairless. Of course, it's much more inconvenient so it's really a personal decision.



Let me know you have any questions and if they are worthwhile I will try answer them

 

[corkmeister]

Interesting post, thanks! Have you ever monitored your serum dht levels to see the actual effect topical finasteride was having over a particular timeframe? Or are you purely going on the presence/absence of side-effects?

Do you have an estimation of how long it usually takes in your case for sides to start manifesting themselves at the different dosing schemes (0.05mg/ml, 0.1mg/ml) you mentioned?

 

[Timmy_17]

Thanks for this. Have posted the following in a separate thread:

So i've recently taken the finasteride plunge (after a lot of deliberation) and am using topical (I really don't want to go down the oral route) for my diffuse pattern. I have a pre made solution from a place in the UK which i've just recently started using (min 5% and finasteride 0.05%)

To minimise the risk of sides, I have decided to microdose the topical solution. So far, to do that, I have been using only 50ml of the solution a day (as opposed to the 2ml recommended label dosage).

a) Is this a pointless exercise (is that dosage too low to see any kind of benefit)
b) Instead of reducing the dosage amount, would I be better off to reduce the frequency instead? (so apply the full 2ml every other day/two days instead)? The 'half life' is something that keeps cropping up so just wanted to get your view around the best way to approach this!

 

[hemingway_the_mercenary]

Interesting post, thanks! Have you ever monitored your serum dht levels to see the actual effect topical finasteride was having over a particular timeframe? Or are you purely going on the presence/absence of side-effects?

Do you have an estimation of how long it usually takes in your case for sides to start manifesting themselves at the different dosing schemes (0.05mg/ml, 0.1mg/ml) you mentioned?

No I haven't but serum DHT is essentially just a minor fraction of DHT that escaped the tissues in the body where T was converted to DHT. Since DHT is converted locally in tissues such as the prostate, penis, scalp, and so on tracking the systemic DHT is unfortunately not a reliable way of accurately recording was is happening to DHT levels throughout different parts of the body.

I feel sides within the day now at 0.125mg/ml but my finasteride sides have become a lot more aggressive than they used to be so this might vary from person to person.

 

[hemingway_the_mercenary]

Thanks for this. Have posted the following in a separate thread:

So i've recently taken the finasteride plunge (after a lot of deliberation) and am using topical (I really don't want to go down the oral route) for my diffuse pattern. I have a pre made solution from a place in the UK which i've just recently started using (min 5% and finasteride 0.05%)

To minimise the risk of sides, I have decided to microdose the topical solution. So far, to do that, I have been using only 50ml of the solution a day (as opposed to the 2ml recommended label dosage).

a) Is this a pointless exercise (is that dosage too low to see any kind of benefit)
b) Instead of reducing the dosage amount, would I be better off to reduce the frequency instead? (so apply the full 2ml every other day/two days instead)? The 'half life' is something that keeps cropping up so just wanted to get your view around the best way to approach this!

You need enough to cover the whole scalp basically. You might want to start making your own solution if you want a lower concentration but where applied the solution will still have it's desired effect imo

 

[drprepper123]

Thanks for the interesting post. You say that at 0.125mg-0.2mg per ml it's just as effective as oral finasteride, do you mean it's just as effective as the exact same dose of oral finasteride? or the regular prescibed 1mg a day.

Would you say topical finasteride goes less systemic than oral finasteride (with a liposomal vehicle) or any other vehicle for that matter or that it goes systemic exactly the same?

Last, does topical go systemic as much over time and thus it's just a slower development of the inevitable, or are the topical sides more managable over the long term and do they not get as bad as oral finasteride?

Thanks!

 

[thinincrown]

First of all, does it work... YES
Does it get systemic? Also YES

I've used such an array of different dosages anywhere from 20mg/ml to 0.05mg/ml. I had the same sides as oral finasteride at above 5mg/ml but lowering the dose did help initially but then my sides became more aggressive (finasteride sides just get more aggressive with time if you don't stop, it doesn't matter if oral or topical).

For the past 8 or so months I've been using below 1mg/ml, around 0.1mg/ml but sometimes lower. At 0.05mg/ml (4ml to cover the scalp) I still had moderate sides but they improved noticeably within 2-3 days of stopping and were significantly reduced by 2 weeks after stopping. However, at this does I found it to be less effective than oral finasteride for hairless, still effective but I definitely noticed that I was loosing ground faster.

At around 0.125-0.2mg/ml I would say it's as effective as oral finasteride with about 1/3 to 1/2 the potential for side effects.

I've used many different vehicles for it, liposomes, ethosomes, alcohol solutions, and so on and what I can tell you I that at this low of a dosage it really doesn't matter what vehicle you use as long as it's not water. Topical absorption becomes more challenging the more drug you are trying to deliver, which is why less potent drugs like AR blockers such as CB, OH-Flut, RU, etc. are not able to stop balding for most men when applied topically (they aren't able to reach the follicle in sufficient concentration to block the AR). BUT finasteride is hundreds of times more potent than these drugs so topical absorption is never a challenge for it. You can use whatever vehicle you prefer, I don't think it will make any difference.

Would I recommend the sinstead of oral finasteride? Yes, if you are concerned about side effects down the road. This will help delay the onset of side effects from finasteride while still being able to delay your hairless. Of course, it's much more inconvenient so it's really a personal decision.



Let me know you have any questions and if they are worthwhile I will try answer them

Would you say topical finasteride is more effective than oral?

Thanks

 

[jazz1]

I been using It since 2010 when oral gave me sides effects, I use anti androgen blockers mixed into my lotion. I used many compound pharmacies over the years but same formula, now I use MAA.

See my thread anyone interested they give us forum members discount, I set up for us few years back.

https://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/threads/topical-minoxidil-finasteride-mixture-check-here.126633/

 

[hemingway_the_mercenary]

Would you say topical finasteride is more effective than oral?

Thanks

It’s like the difference between 5mg finasteride vs 1mg oral. They’re about the same above 0.1mg/ml

 

[thinincrown]

It’s like the difference between 5mg finasteride vs 1mg oral. They’re about the same above 0.1mg/ml

Gotcha, thanks

 

[MrOscar]

Thanks for the report.
You said the vehicle doesn't matter, also when using ethosomes. I'm trying them as topical dutasteride gel under the assumption delivery is 90%.

How did you make the finasteride ethosomes ?

Actually I got sides in approx 1 months, at 0.6 mg/week dutasteride when switching to it from oral finasteride 1 mg/day, going through something like 20 days of no-drug sides profile.
People using same weekly dose of topical dutasteride as hydro-alchoolic are not facing sides, while I got them with ethosomes gel despite a number of tricks in place to hampering systemic delivery.

By factoring potency of the two drugs that is approx 10X for dutasteride, my dose was equivalent to 6 mg/week finasteride so equivalent to your daily 4 ml at 0.2 mg/ml.
I have to say my sides went to a very comparable level to finasteride 1 mg/day oral.
I have just decreased the volume from 2 ml to 1.2 ml as practical half the previous dose, because of losses on hair shafts.
I not sure at all I'll have less sides with this dose, but I have to try it...and for several weeks because half life could be extremely long with a so hydrophobic drug.
I suspect the unknown limit is the skin metabolism capacity, as everything that is delivered to dermis (and ethosomes are very efficient doing so), if not metabolised by the skin, must go systemic for final elimination. this concept won't apply to part of the drug that will be retained on epidermis, as washes and epidermis turnover would be still a way of getting rid of the drug. Ethosomes studies says the amount on epidermis is minimal, on the contrary the amount loaded by hydro-alchoolic and lipodomes is the largest part.
I have googled for cytochrome P450 on skin and it seems we have the right ones there but 1/4 vs liver cells. By assuming the treated area is 12x12 (front+mid), the skin mass is approx 40-50 grams so if there is not a specific upregulatiion of the p450 pool, we have on our scalp something like 10 g of liver for metabolism of these drugs.
Our liver is instead 1600 g as average, so capacity is very different.
This to say, likely we have a capacity limit either in terms of drug retention, but probably more in terms of drug degradation.
As you mentioned, I see anyway a net advantage of topical vs oral for 5ARI, as at same delivered dose it should obtain a better scalp inhibition. The top value for scalp inhibition I have ever seen in the studies was by Polichem finasteride gel achieving 75% inhibition and same serum dht drop like oral finasteride 1 mg that was at the known 55%.

 

[dontwannagobald]

I concur with the OP's experiences. I started doing topical Finasteride after the oral usage became intolerable to me.

In my experience topical Finasteride defiantly works, but indeed does go systemic. Sides are milder than with oral but after prolonged use become apparent and persistent as serum DHT levels decline due to consistent 5AR inhibition.

I can maintain ground on 0,333 mg/ml EOD but do experience reduced ejaculation volume and reduced libido as side effects. I defiantly experience less neurological and less severe sexual side effects on topical vs. oral. I can't maintain on the same dose every third day.

I currently use 60% of 5% liquid Minoxidil (Rogaine) + 40% Vodka as a my vehicle. I add crushed Proscar pill's to attain the desired potency. The Vodka is to reduce the potency of the Minoxidil as 5% is too strong for me, gives me dark circles under my eyes.

I'll be experimenting with a lower dose (1ml of 0,25 mg/ml solution EOD soon) to see I can mitigate the sides even more.

 

[MrKmass]

First of all, does it work... YES
Does it get systemic? Also YES

I've used such an array of different dosages anywhere from 20mg/ml to 0.05mg/ml. I had the same sides as oral finasteride at above 5mg/ml but lowering the dose did help initially but then my sides became more aggressive (finasteride sides just get more aggressive with time if you don't stop, it doesn't matter if oral or topical).

For the past 8 or so months I've been using below 1mg/ml, around 0.1mg/ml but sometimes lower. At 0.05mg/ml (4ml to cover the scalp) I still had moderate sides but they improved noticeably within 2-3 days of stopping and were significantly reduced by 2 weeks after stopping. However, at this does I found it to be less effective than oral finasteride for hairless, still effective but I definitely noticed that I was loosing ground faster.

At around 0.125-0.2mg/ml I would say it's as effective as oral finasteride with about 1/3 to 1/2 the potential for side effects.

I've used many different vehicles for it, liposomes, ethosomes, alcohol solutions, and so on and what I can tell you I that at this low of a dosage it really doesn't matter what vehicle you use as long as it's not water. Topical absorption becomes more challenging the more drug you are trying to deliver, which is why less potent drugs like AR blockers such as CB, OH-Flut, RU, etc. are not able to stop balding for most men when applied topically (they aren't able to reach the follicle in sufficient concentration to block the AR). BUT finasteride is hundreds of times more potent than these drugs so topical absorption is never a challenge for it. You can use whatever vehicle you prefer, I don't think it will make any difference.

Would I recommend the sinstead of oral finasteride? Yes, if you are concerned about side effects down the road. This will help delay the onset of side effects from finasteride while still being able to delay your hairless. Of course, it's much more inconvenient so it's really a personal decision.



Let me know you have any questions and if they are worthwhile I will try answer them

Very interesting. I serve as a guinea pig, have been testing topical finasteride 0.05 mg/ml for some time, and apply two ml per day. I have mild side effects at the moment.

My first question, do you think topical finasteride really works topically or as many say works just by getting into our bloodstream and acting like oral ? Because I could maximize my gains by applying the product only to my hairline, where I lose.

Also, with a conventional vehicle (Ethanol / PG / Water) how much topical finasteride percentage do you think gets into your blood ? I am still amazed to have side effects at 0.1 mg per day topically.

 

[scientist_0005]

extremely interesting, why do you think studies are contradictory on the systemic inhibition?

 

[badnewsbearer]

No I haven't but serum DHT is essentially just a minor fraction of DHT that escaped the tissues in the body where T was converted to DHT. Since DHT is converted locally in tissues such as the prostate, penis, scalp, and so on tracking the systemic DHT is unfortunately not a reliable way of accurately recording was is happening to DHT levels throughout different parts of the body.

finally

 

[AlfaRome15]

sperimentato effetti collaterali dall'applicazione di 0,05 mg di finasteride topica al giorno? O 0,05 mg x 4 ml! pensi che 0,025 mg x 2 ml al giorno (0,05 totali) sia un dosaggio più basso? OIO ·

Prima di tutto, funziona... SÌ
Diventa sistemico? Anche SI

Ho usato una tale gamma di dosaggi diversi ovunque da 20 mg / ml a 0,05 mg / ml. Avevo gli stessi lati della finasteride orale a oltre 5 mg / ml, ma abbassare la dose inizialmente ha aiutato, ma poi i miei lati sono diventati più aggressivi (i lati della finasteride diventano più aggressivi con il tempo se non ti fermi, non importa se orale o topico).

Negli ultimi 8 mesi circa ho usato meno di 1 mg / ml, circa 0,1 mg / ml ma a volte inferiore. A 0,05 mg / ml (4 ml per coprire il cuoio capelluto) avevo ancora lati moderati, ma sono migliorati notevolmente entro 2-3 giorni dall'arresto e sono stati significativamente ridotti di 2 settimane dopo l'interruzione. Tuttavia, a questo ho trovato meno efficace della finasteride orale per glabro, ancora efficace, ma ho sicuramente notato che stavo perdendo terreno più velocemente.

A circa 0,125-0,2 mg / ml direi che è efficace quanto la finasteride orale con circa 1/3 a 1/2 del potenziale di effetti collaterali.

Ho usato molti veicoli diversi per questo, liposomi, etosomi, soluzioni alcoliche e così via e quello che posso dirti è che a questo basso dosaggio non importa davvero quale veicolo usi purché non sia acqua. L'assorbimento topico diventa più impegnativo più farmaco si sta cercando di fornire, motivo per cui farmaci meno potenti come i bloccanti AR come CB, OH-Flut, RU, ecc. Non sono in grado di fermare la calvizie per la maggior parte degli uomini se applicati localmente (non sono in grado di raggiungere il follicolo in concentrazione sufficiente per bloccare l'AR). MA la finasteride è centinaia di volte più potente di questi farmaci, quindi l'assorbimento topico non è mai una sfida per questo. Puoi usare qualsiasi veicolo tu preferisca, non credo che farà alcuna differenza.

Consiglierei il posto della finasteride orale? Sì, se sei preoccupato per gli effetti collaterali lungo la strada. Ciò contribuirà a ritardare l'insorgenza di effetti collaterali da finasteride pur essendo in grado di ritardare il tuo glabro. Certo, è molto più scomodo, quindi è davvero una decisione personale.

First of all, does it work... YES
Does it get systemic? Also YES

I've used such an array of different dosages anywhere from 20mg/ml to 0.05mg/ml. I had the same sides as oral finasteride at above 5mg/ml but lowering the dose did help initially but then my sides became more aggressive (finasteride sides just get more aggressive with time if you don't stop, it doesn't matter if oral or topical).

For the past 8 or so months I've been using below 1mg/ml, around 0.1mg/ml but sometimes lower. At 0.05mg/ml (4ml to cover the scalp) I still had moderate sides but they improved noticeably within 2-3 days of stopping and were significantly reduced by 2 weeks after stopping. However, at this does I found it to be less effective than oral finasteride for hairless, still effective but I definitely noticed that I was loosing ground faster.

At around 0.125-0.2mg/ml I would say it's as effective as oral finasteride with about 1/3 to 1/2 the potential for side effects.

I've used many different vehicles for it, liposomes, ethosomes, alcohol solutions, and so on and what I can tell you I that at this low of a dosage it really doesn't matter what vehicle you use as long as it's not water. Topical absorption becomes more challenging the more drug you are trying to deliver, which is why less potent drugs like AR blockers such as CB, OH-Flut, RU, etc. are not able to stop balding for most men when applied topically (they aren't able to reach the follicle in sufficient concentration to block the AR). BUT finasteride is hundreds of times more potent than these drugs so topical absorption is never a challenge for it. You can use whatever vehicle you prefer, I don't think it will make any difference.

Would I recommend the sinstead of oral finasteride? Yes, if you are concerned about side effects down the road. This will help delay the onset of side effects from finasteride while still being able to delay your hairless. Of course, it's much more inconvenient so it's really a personal decision.



Let me know you have any questions and if they are worthwhile I will try answer them

shouldn't the absorption of topical fines be higher if taken together with a vasodilator (minoxidil)? I am trying 0.01mg per day in 1ml of minoxidil

 

[Steve lopez 11]

I been using It since 2010 when oral gave me sides effects, I use anti androgen blockers mixed into my lotion. I used many compound pharmacies over the years but same formula, now I use MAA.

See my thread anyone interested they give us forum members discount, I set up for us few years back.

https://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/threads/topical-minoxidil-finasteride-mixture-check-here.126633/

How old are you

 

[hair2stay]

Thanks so much: Can you confirm the math behind the mix ratio?

at 20 mg's per ML, you literally mean the equivalent of four - 5mg tablets crushed up per 1 ML of carrier solution
At 0.05mgs per ML, you literally mean the equivalent of one - 1Mg tablet crushed up per 20 ML of solution (0.05 being 1/20th of a mg)

I hope someone can weigh in with the specific way to make a 0.05mg /ml solution

Moreover doseage is completely dependant on the number of ML I apply to my hair so:

If I apply 1 ml of 0.1mg / ml , then this is the same as applying 2 ml of 0.05mg / ml solution...correct?

I see some people refer to as 0.05mg /ml as a 5% solution but just like minoxidil applying a 3 ML of 2% minoxidil is more potent than applying 1 ML of 5% solution

I also saw a poster above state that he uses 0.01mg / ml per day ... How could these be effective at 1 ml per day? Its the eqivalent of a 1/100 mg tablet.....


So in making my own, I'd like to confirm the ratio's you use.

Thank you very much!!

 

[hair2stay]

shouldn't the absorption of topical fines be higher if taken together with a vasodilator (minoxidil)? I am trying 0.01mg per day in 1ml of minoxidil

Can you help me understand your ratio? 0.01 mg per day is 1/100 of a 1mg tablet. How can a dose this low be effective? Do you mean 0.1mg per 1 ml? 0.01 mg is only 1% the potency of a 1mg tablet which is a standard daily dose. Even if you microdose at 0.25 mgs per day , that is still 25 x more potent than your 0.01mg mix

Thanks

 

[debyne]

I'm 11 weeks in having transitioned from oral finasteride to topical finasteride. Sides continue to be 100% gone. My hair is better than ever.

I make my own with Proscar and Kirkland min. 0.025%