Moosetache's story - (25 years old w/pictures)

[Moosetache]

(Sorry if this is long, I wanted to keep it short but I failed miserably...)

So, like many people on this board, I used to have thick luscious hair. So thick in fact that, every time I went for a haircut, the hairdresser would make a comment about it and proceed with thinning it out. It seems so unreal to me now as I've lost a considerable amount of hair.

My hair-loss probably started sometime around 18-20 years old, I remember shedding a lot of hair in the shower and when I was styling it, not thinking much of it and therefore it progressed unnoticed for quite a while. I used to spend a lot of time in front of the mirror (don't judge me ) and when I was 21, I finally realized that my hair was falling out fast as I could see my scalp on top and in the crown area. Keep in mind that I had fairly long hair at this point in time. This was devastating to me.

I started re-evaluating my entire lifestyle. I was always out, barely getting any sleep. My stress levels were very elevated. My diet was horrible. Really, the only thing I sort of had going for me was that I had been a gym rat since my mid teens and my physical shape was descent, though, if anything, this worked against me since all I did was hypertrophy.
Also, I started obsessing over cures for the hair-loss. I searched the internet for all the info I could get my hands on, picking up some valuable knowledge from different websites and going to forums like this one to learn from the experiences of people on their own quests to reverse their hair loss. A lot of the stuff seemed really scary to me, with all the side effects, so I decided to try and go with a more natural approach.


Over the following months(years), I changed my diet drastically. To keep it short, I cut all processed foods, switched to mostly all whole grains with limited wheat, I slowly started buying more organic fruits and veggies, I switched to leaner and mostly white meat only, I eat a sh*t ton of turmeric/garlic/ginger and I started incorporating lots of good fats from nuts/flax/oils etc. I also cut all refined sugar.
I started getting more sleep but I still have some way to go and my stress/anxiety levels have actually been even higher than ever these past few years so I definitely need to address that. Lastly, this is sort of embarassing but, I used to masturbate a lot (many times in a day). I've cut that down to 1-3 times a week (none if I'm having sex) and sometimes, when I don't have a steady girlfriend, I'll try to go a week or two without ejaculating.

I also take some supplements but they're not specifically for hair loss:

• N-acetyl cysteine
  Vitamins-- Bcomplex - B6 - C - D3
  L-tyrosine
  Sam-e(small dose)
  zinc
  5-htp (night, small dose)
  Coq10
  Astaxanthin (Very powerful antioxidant)
  magnesium
  ashwagandha
  r-lipoic-acid
  Chlorella/Spirulina (20g/day)

I'm now 25 years old and, despite some ups and downs in the past, I feel like my hair loss has pretty much stabilized in the past year. I still lose hair in the shower, but much less than before. It also appears a little thicker and definitely more lively than it did a year or two ago.

Which is why I am now back on these forums and posting for the first time. My hair stands at NW2+ and is still thinned out in a diffuse manner on top. I figure I'm still pretty young so if I am to do something about regrowth, it's now or never. The DHT blockers/inhibitors still scare me so I'm not ready to pull the trigger on those, but I do want to try something out. I'm hopping to get some regrowth on the temples and obviously thicken the top and crown areas.

This is what I'll start with:

• 5% kirkland minoxidil (just ordered 3 month supply from ebay)
  Nioxin shampoo/conditionner/scalp therapy
  2% nizoral

I'll post pictures of my hair sometime this week as I prepare to start this new chapter in my hair loss reversal.

Thanks for reading, and again sorry it was so long. :beer:

 

[antman]

Re: My hairloss story...

congrats on improving your hair without the meds, hopefully you'll get some good results with minoxidil.

How did you decide on those supplements and not others? and
do any of the supplements you are taking make a difference on a day-to-day level?
particularly for sleep, energy and recovery.

 

[Moosetache]

Re: My hairloss story...

Thanks for the support Antman

As far as which supplements work best for me, that was mostly by trial and error. And yes, they have had a very positive effect on me. For starters, I had horrible insomnia to the point where it was extremely difficult for me to fall asleep and if I did, I would wake up many times during the night. Obviously I didn't recover from one day to the next, but I stayed positive and over time I got better. My concentration, energy and general well being are also a lot better than they were.

Also, around the time I started losing hair on my head, I was actually losing hair on my shins, calves and thighs. The skin over my elbows and knees was rough, dry and sometimes scaly. I had a horrible dandruff problem and my scalp was super itchy. I would have random spasms quite often and especially at night. Over time all these things have been reversed and as we speak, only the hair on my thighs is not completely filled in but it's getting there.

Here's a quick breakdown of my supps and why I take them:

N-acetyl-cysteine (taken with 1g Vit C for absorbtion) 600mg x2 daily.
- It is known to increase glutathione which is one of the most powerful cellular antioxydants. It's also helped tremendously with my concentration.

Vit Bcomp50, vit. D3(1000iu) and zinc(15mg)
- This is just to make sure I get all that I need. I live in canada and I don't get much sunshine for at least half the year.

Sam-e(100-200mg), l-tyrosine(500mg), 5-htp(50-100mg) + magnesium(250-400mg) + vit b6(20mg).
- I take the Sam-e and l-tyrosine in the morning, to help with neurotransmitter levels. Again, my concentration and energy levels seem to be benefiting.

- The 5-htp is taken nightly, along with Vit b6 for better absorption and magnesium for it's relaxing effects. The magnesium also helps with the spasms.

Ashwagandha and other adaptogens
- I take the ashwagandha at night. It helps with relaxing and it's supposed to be good for the adrenals and such. I alternate this one with Holy Basil.

- Once in a while, I also add other adaptogens to my daily routine, like rhodiola rosea and maca.

Chlorella, Spirulina and R-lipoic-acid
- The R-lipoic-acid can cross the blood-brain barrier as well as access the nervous tissue. From there, it's capable of pulling out toxins like heavy metals into the blood stream and into your stomach. You need someting like chlorella or spirulina which can both bind to these metals so they can exit the body. (They are extremely high in chlorophyll) They also are jest plain good for you nutrient and health wise and they are a good source of post workout protein.

I also periodically take things like milk thistle and dandellion root which are known to be good for the liver and kidneys.

I know this regiment may seems a little extreme :wow: , but it really isn't once you get used to it. I prepare my pills and capsules in advance, like and old person, and this way I don't have to think about it and it takes 10 minutes out of my day. Hope this cleared things up. :beer:

 

[Moosetache]

Re: My hairloss story...

Hey, I just wanted to add a few pictures I just took (april 23rd 2012)

I took these with the webcam on my laptop since I don't have my camera at the moment and the quality is pretty bad. There's no flash and most of the lighting is coming from my TV. The thinning on top really does not look so bad on these, it is a little worse in person.

As you can see there's some recession on my temples. This is actually my left temple and, though they aren't really visible here, there are vellus and small hairs above the orange line and I hope to strengthen these. The red line is my ideal hair line.

Same deal on this side.

Like I said, the lighting is not all that great, you can see some thinning but it doesn't look so on this picture. It's a little worse in person.

This is right after a shower, I let my hair dry and I tried styling it just a bit as I usually wear it. I am able to conceal most of the ..."damage".

 

[Moosetache]

Q

A few more pics from years earlier

The first one is with my teenage hairline. It's a school picture from when I was 15 (we wore uniforms to school )

The next ones are from a few years ago, in the early stages after I realized that my hair was falling out quick, (I was losing hairs by the handful in the shower and they would fall all over my desk and books while studying) that I decided to go ahead and shave it off, mainly to stop obsessing about it. I had horrible constant itching and dandruff. My hairline had just started receding. Unfortunately, I didn't take pictures of the top area and crown which was where most of the initial hair loss really showed, the rest was diffuse thinning. Over the next few years, my hair would gradually get a little worse and looked really lifeless, dull and dry when I let it grow. Unfortunately, during this time I refused to take pictures. lol, quite immature, I know.

I have to add that I also went through many years of very stressful and emotional events in my personal life which probably contributed a great deal to my subsequent hair loss.

***EDIT*** These pictures are from late 2008

I have not achieved any regrowth, but my hair loss seems to now have halted and my hair is silky and healthy again. Can't wait to start with the minoxidil unk:

 

[antman]

Re: My hairloss story... (25 years old w/pictures)

Hey thanks for the info; i'm been thinking about taking sam-e, vit B6 and l-tyrosine for neurol health.
All those supplements you are taking don’t sound extreme; improving sleep and hair definitely has a big impact on quality of life.

Your hairline has receded a lot for that period of time; I would have thought you would be relieved to get onto propecia and not opposed to it.

If you can get a stronger hairline with minoxidil then that will make a big difference. How do you feel about your hair at the moment?

 

[Moosetache]

Re: My hairloss story... (25 years old w/pictures)

Absolutely, I would rather go bald as billiards ball tomorrow than be unhealthy, tired and generally miserable for the rest of my life.
Btw, I tried a few supplements that were just not for me before I settled on sam-e. Be patient and keep in mind that different people will respond to different supplements at varying doses. Some might be very sensitive while others require an elephant sized dose.

My hairline has indeed receded quite a bit in the last 3-4 years.(I was prolly Norwood-1.5 ish on that second set of pictures.) I could absolutely live with it if I don't get any regrowth, some are much worse off than I, nevertheless I really wouldn't mind growing some of it back :whistle:
Also, as I stated earlier, it's been an up and down learning experience these past few years, trying to lead a healthier lifestyle, reducing stress and adapting to an optimal diet. I do believe that the hair loss has been more or less stabilized for more than half a year and I feel I can afford not to go for an anti-androgen straight away. I'm not completely opposed to using some form of it though if push comes to shove. (Perhaps a topical solution, I need to learn more about them though)

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the minoxidil/nizoral/nioxin or revivogen will be enough. I do have a lot of vellus and small hairs on the temple area.

Good luck on your own journey my friend, Cheers :beer:

 

[israelite]

Re: My hairloss story... (25 years old w/pictures)

Your hair is very thick! U should jump on finasteride

 

[gascoigne]

Re: My hairloss story... (25 years old w/pictures)

Dont take this wrong friend, but stress, lack of sleep, lot of drinking, drugs, etc, WILL NOT cause ANY hairloss unless person is geneticly supposed to lose it.

On the other side, vitamine, plant, miracle grass, water, geen tea or else WILL NOT stop ANY hairloss. You can try to treat the consequence, but cause remains untouched. And the cause is in gene; someting that can not be changed.

 

[Moosetache]

Re: My hairloss story... (25 years old w/pictures)

I have to disagree. Sure, if your predisposed for aggressive hair loss, than it will happen no matter what. On the other hand, I think there are many nuances here.

I'll use my family to try and make this point. I have 10 aunts but only 2 uncles so the sample size for this erm... study is pretty small but bare with me. My dad had all of his extremely thick curly hair til his early 30s. He ran a business and went through half a decade of extremely stressful times. On top of that, situations in his personal life were also taken their toll on him. He was losing lots of sleep aswell and actually lost about 40 pounds (He was 6'5 220-180). Sometime during this period, he started losing hair rapidly, to end up about NW5 over about a 5 year period. Things stabilized once everything started getting back in order and his hair has not gotten any worse or better since his late 30s (he`s early 50s).

His brother on the other hand, my uncle, is an anesthesiologist. Of course, this is a stressful job. But he happens to have an extremely easy going fazed by nothing personality. I asked him years ago if he had ever gone through a period of intense or prolonged stress and he told me no. He also leads an extremely healthy lifestyle. Well, he has kept his extremely thick teenage hairline and he`s about to turn 60. In the last 2 years however, his wife was diagnosed with cancer and she just died last month. He took care of her at home until her final moments.`The last few months have been really hard on him, so we`ll see if that has an effect on his hair.

On my mother`s side of the family, hair loss is also not very prominent but there is some. My grandfather kept most of his hair into his early 50s. He was a physician and went through really severe PTSD from several wars. He drank a lot and used lots of prescription drugs to keep himself in check, but when he finally wanted to get straight, he went through intense prolonged stress and lost a lot of hair. It did end up stabilizing as he got better.

One more example. My uncle (Mom`s brother) had all his hair and was an NW1.5 up until his late 40s, when he was diagnosed with ulcerative colitis, which is known to be brought on by prolonged intense stress. THis illness makes it difficult for the patient to have all the needed nutrients. It`s been about 4 years now and he`s a Nw2 with advanced diffuse thinning.

Like I said, I do think that the gene for aggressive hair loss is hard to counter with just stress reduction, adequate sleep and lifestyle changes. On the other hand, I am a firm believer that a lot of other hair loss is brought on by those issues or at the very least exasperated by them. Whether your genetically predisposed for hair loss or not.
BTW Stress can come in many forms. Whether emotional, physical, environmental, etc..

Sorry for the length once again, I'll try not to make this a habbit, haha :innocent:

 

[gascoigne]

Friend, you havent read my post correctly.
Please, do it again.
It is scientificaly proven that 95% of male hairloss is caused by genetics.
The other manners of hairloss are EXTREMLY rare and in those cases hairloss is not permanent and it does not follow the usual pattern (hairline receeding or thinning on the top while sides ALWAYS stay unhurt).

It makes zero effect what you do for a living.
You can sleep in garbage, eat feces and drink urine, still nothing will happen to your hair. You smoke marihuana, drink alcohol and use cocaine every day and you will have the same hair. You can loose you whole family and be exposed to extremly severe stress, but nothing will happen to your hair.

How many drug addicts, alcoholics, ramblers, PTSP soliders, mental patients do you see and still they have full heads of hair ?
There are LOT of them.

 

[Moosetache]

First of all, define full head of hair, because I've seen many people with mental, stress, sleep and whatever other disorders who have full coverage (nw2) but extreme diffuse thinning (such as my uncle... ulcerative colitis)

Now for the external factors themselves, it always depends on the individual. Drugs may not affect one person, but bring sever anxiety in another. A job may seem unstressful to one , and unbelievably stressful to another. Money issues, family issues, etc. And genetics has an important role here too. (Hormonal changes being a main culprit)

I guess I didn't explain properly that I do believe that genetics play a primary role in most hair loss. However, if one is to follow this conclusion, one has to realize that not all people are programmed to lose the same amount of hair and at the same age. Some might lose a little over a long period of time, others a lot in a short period. Above this, I think it is foolish to not believe external factors can exasperate hair loss. Tons and tons of studies have conclusively linked them (not proved).

I have another example I had not listed in the earlier reply. There's a woman in my family who has had severe stress, for reasons which I will not disclose, and she had extreme diffuse thinning all over. losing her hairline like a guy would. This went on for 10-15 years. She is now better but her hair has remained the same, no worse but not improved. Obviously the sides thinned as well but not nearly as much as the top (top is 4-5x thinner)

There are 3 MDs and 2 researchers in my immediate family and they would all tell you that we have a mere faint understanding of the human mind and body. We learn more everyday and new insight changes how we view things all the time.

At the very best, the fact that genetics is the only factor in hair loss can be speculated, but it is far from proven.

In any case, my hair loss has absolutely halted and my hair is now shiny and healthy (not full), whereas a year ago it was dull, lifeless, dry and could barely be styled. In this thread I'll keep you guys updated, and we'll see what happens. Maybe the hair loss will resume, maybe I'll get some regrowth, time will tell.


That's all for now, cheers :beer:

 

[wstef]

Most people with hair loss suffer because of genetics, but what's to say that poor diet, poor environment, stress etc... doesn't play a part? As far as I am aware such negative factors can have an effect on hormones and in genetically predefined people perhaps this simply speeds up the hair loss?

 

[Moosetache]

Re: Moosetache's story - (25 years old, baseline pics pg.2)

I got a haircut today so I figured it would be a good time to post some baseline pictures.

As I said in an earlier post, I've been keeping track of my hairloss for quite a while and it seems to have halted or, at the very least, it's progressing at a snail's pace.

I should be receiving my minoxidil by mail some time next week. (3 months supply of kirkland 5% liquid + 4 months of rogaine 5% foam)

I'm also seriously starting to consider finasteride. Maybe I'll just start with a topical like s5 cream.

(I had sometrouble taking shots of my temples, I'll try to take some better ones later)

DAY 0 Pictures (May 5th 2012)

WITH FLASH


















=========================================

NO FLASH

 

[antman]

is your hair thinner on top than the sides and back? its a little bit hard to tell because the hair on the sides are facing in a different direction to your hair on top.

the problem with starting 5S cream around the same time as minoxidil, is that you won't know if it is doing anything for a while...

my hair loss also progresses very slowly; i used think that i'll be ok as long as it happens over a long period but when it got to NW2.5; i couldn't take it anymore. if u think u r the same, its better to start finasteride soon. min will probably keep your hair pretty good for maybe 1 to 3 years; so u could put it off till then.

 

[oldmpber]

Hi,
Newbie here- so new that I have not finished my story yet (long winded) but I saw your post and wanted to comment.

You hair line is not bad at all. if I were in your shoes I would be more concerned with your crown. My crown started much later than most of you guys , but once it did, it came on pretty fast. I caught it early and for the first 2 years I tried to stop it with just minoxidil. I took pics the whole time and you can see it start on the very right side of the back of my head then spread over to the left forming a small oval. Then it started spreading/enlarging pretty fast and your 2 side pictures look very similar to what I saw and why I think you may need to be concerned. It looks like it may be started to spread down to your ears. With just 2 pics it is hard to say for sure but you need to keep an eye on this. After 2 years and seeing it start towards my ears I added finasteride. finasteride stopped it and did a great job but after a few years I got sides and had to quit. But around the time I got sides my male pattern baldness came to a crawl so I was able to get by for years on just minoxidil again. So I see you are considering finasteride. If you male pattern baldness is getting aggressive, finasteride + minoxidil may be the only way to stop it. But if you start getting sides, get off of it FAST! I procrastinated getting off of it and never recovered 100%. Also male pattern baldness can be fast slow or dormant so there is a reasonable chance it will slow down in the future and you can get by will less meds, at least for awhile. Oh one final thought: most of your pics look like plain jane male pattern baldness. But that pure overhead one looks looks kinda like fpb as I had a friend who had it and her loss looked like that . It could simply be the camera angle as the other overhead shots do look like reg male pattern baldness, but thought I would throw that in just in case... Anyway hang in there and good luck!

 

[Moosetache]

Two years ago, the hair on top was noticeably thinner and a lot more sparse than the rest. Now, I would say they are about the same in texture and thickness but I have less density on top. On the side, the hair is thinner than it used to be though.

I'm reading up on the various topicals at the moment. You make a good point about not knowing if it's making a difference but, as long as I get no side effects, I would only be using it as a preventive measure.

finasteride really scares me. I'm at a point in my life where I might want to start a family and I want to make sure all the bits are working properly ya know? :shock: It's still an option but I'm very hesitant.

 

[Moosetache]

@oldmpber

Thanks for the reply.

I'll try to keep that in mind, you make some very good points. I'm not totally opposed to finasteride, but I think I'll try a topical solution first. Hopefully that will help my chances of not getting side effects.

BTW, what's "fpb"?
***EDIT***
Nevermind, I figured it out... lol (I'm a bit slow today.)

Yes, when I grow my hair out, it looks a lot like fpb. Initially I had little if any temple recession, but I was losing hair by the handful from all over the place. Within a few months I went from extremely thick and dense hair to diffuse thinning and lifeless hair all over on top. (This is why I believe that part of the hairloss might have been stress related, I was going through some really tough times.)

Those pictures I took in 2008 (pg.1), you can see my temples have not receded much, but the hair on top was sparse. Unfortunately I didn't take any vertex pictures because I was embarrassed about it ...

 

[oldmpber]

@oldmpber

Thanks for the reply.

I'll try to keep that in mind, you make some very good points. I'm not totally opposed to finasteride, but I think I'll try a topical solution first. Hopefully that will help my chances of not getting side effects.

BTW, what's "fpb"?
***EDIT***
Nevermind, I figured it out... lol (I'm a bit slow today.)

Yes, when I grow my hair out, it looks a lot like fpb. Initially I had little if any temple recession, but I was losing hair by the handful from all over the place. Within a few months I went from extremely thick and dense hair to diffuse thinning and lifeless hair all over on top. (This is why I believe that part of the hairloss might have been stress related, I was going through some really tough times.)

Those pictures I took in 2008 (pg.1), you can see my temples have not receded much, but the hair on top was sparse. Unfortunately I didn't take any vertex pictures because I was embarrassed about it ...

I don't blame you for being cautious about finasteride. But You may not ever have any issues with it as I have wondered if it was finasteride + other factors such as getting older that did me in.
And yea I know how you feel about the vertex. Recession never bothered me much but I was so embarrassed about seeing the spot start forming in the back. Anyway..good luck!

 

[andersonlynch]

that supplements helps you a lot.... but for me it is more appropriate to use the natural way treatment.... that only my side.....