minoxidil stops working or just doesn't regrow after time?

[elguapo]

After the effectivity of minoxidil reaches a peak, which is said to happen within 4-12 months, does the effectivity then

1) REMAIN CONSTANT, BUT NOT IMPROVE (won't grow any new hair)
or
2) DECREASE
???

See, if it remains constant, then I’ll keep using minoxidil 2x per day until (hopefully) there is a cure to male pattern baldness. But if it decreases, then I might want to wait to see if finasteride is keeping my hair on its own, and save minoxidil as a back-up.

I've been on minoxidil for 5 months now, 5% 2x per day, and finast since last Sept. But I noticed that my hair loss stopped in Nov 2003, before I got on rogaine in Dec. I will say that I might have had some regrowth, or at least thickening. I don't want to quit minoxidil altogether, just use it only at night.

Thanks.

 

[Guest]

I just have to look at my dad to answer that. He started using minoxidil back in the days - fred flintstone days. He has really nice hair today for someone who is about to turn 60 and lost his hair when he was 19.

Oh then my answer - minoxidil builds up a the max amount of hair - that will vary from person to person but I think it´s fair to say that if you massage a certain spot with minoxidil for 12 months and you have only grown 5 hairs - then minoxidil will do no more for that area. U still have to use minoxidil to keep the 5 hairs.

Don´t stop using it totally, switch to once a day or twice a day with the 2% - I´d rather go with the once per day 5%. Bryan found a study on 5% once a day and said that the minoxidil effect was maintained.

Great news that you are doing well!

 

[Bryan]

Re: minoxidil stops working or just doesn't regrow after tim

After the effectivity of minoxidil reaches a peak, which is said to happen within 4-12 months, does the effectivity then

1) REMAIN CONSTANT, BUT NOT IMPROVE (won't grow any new hair)
or
2) DECREASE
???

Your question is somewhat ambiguous, because it could mean a couple of different things. But what I _think_ you're asking is this: Can topical minoxidil maintain your hair indefinitely? The answer in my opinion is no: topical minoxidil probably doesn't interfere with the fundamental balding process itself. However, what I feel it DOES do is provide an offset of extra hair growth above and beyond what you would normally have without it, for as long as you use it.

Do you understand the difference in those two concepts? I hope so...

Bryan

 

[elguapo]

Thanks. Sorry for the ambiguity, but I think my question was answered with the words "for as long as you use it".

I've heard comments on this site that Dr. Lee mentioned that minoxidil stops working after 2 years. I think that same statement is implied by HairLossTalk.com in his "tell your story" section, where he explains why he didn't use minoxidil to begin with. I think the idea was to "save it for later". If minoxidil simply stops working after 2 years, as if the body builds an immunity to it, then I understand that argument. But it doesn't make sense why it would stop working after time. I think that just applies to the root cause of male pattern baldness taking over (dht, like the first guy said).

I'm going to stick with using it 2x per day for the rest of this year, to see what it can do for me. But thanks for the input.

 

[hairfarmer7997]

I've been using it for 1 1/2 years and and my hair has worsened steadly for the past 5 months, i've had more fall out in the shower and through out the day and the hair isn't as full as it was about 5 months ago but. . . it still appears to look better than when i started I added. . . i'll have to re-evaluate . . started propecia in feb.

 

[flux]

Minoxidil never stops working. It is always doing something for you, even if you are losing hair. If you quit it, you will lose all the hair it is keeping alive. In one month you will lose a ton of hair. Never, ever quit minoxidil if you can help it.

 

[Guest]

Minoxidil never stops working. It is always doing something for you, even if you are losing hair. If you quit it, you will lose all the hair it is keeping alive. In one month you will lose a ton of hair. Never, ever quit minoxidil if you can help it.

What about when a stronger growth stimulant comes out? I know you guys may think i'm crazy, but i feel certain that OSH101 will be out in a few years. Say a switch from minoxidil to OSH101, I think that could be possible without a massive shed. Eh, who knows....

 

[HAIRLOSSMILITANT]

I think that minoxidil stops working. Not just simply that it can't catch up with the MBP process. Its a drug and keep in mind you're using it every day twice a day. If you took aspirin twice a day every day do you think it would would cure your next headache? Definitely not since your body learns to adapt to it.

So definitely I'd say start with minoxidil 2% first, then 5%, then 7%, then 10%, then 12.5% and then 15%. This should carry you for 10-15 years I'd say. And after 15 years there's probably a 25% a/v at that time and you can go on for another 3-5 years.

 

[Bryan]

I think that minoxidil stops working. Not just simply that it can't catch up with the MBP process. Its a drug and keep in mind you're using it every day twice a day...your body learns to adapt to it.

I respect your opinion, I really do; however, I just don't see any solid evidence for what you say. If hair follicles really do develop a "tolerance" to minoxidil, doesn't it seem like it would surely occur within two years, if not even a lot sooner than that?

Bryan

 

[HAIRLOSSMILITANT]

Hi Bryan,
I have expressed my concerns over minoxidil tolerance several times and every time you have given encouragement and countered that there is no such evidence. I appreciate your input, thanks. This time being, your point is very interesting, that if there was some sort of drug tolerance, it would in reality happen much quicker than a few years.

This being said, do you have any real long term studies of minoxidil users that the study simply showed a long term effect of minoxidil and that it very slowly declined? In short, what do the studies say about this? Do you kind of see a graph that effects are good for so and so years and very slowly get thin again?

 

[Bryan]

This time being, your point is very interesting, that if there was some sort of drug tolerance, it would in reality happen much quicker than a few years.

Well, there you go! In her fairly recent study comparing 2% and 5% topical minoxidil which I've probably cited a hundred times on various hairloss sites like this (it's the one where I got those two graphs showing what happens to haircounts when you quit minoxidil), Vera Price said that the slow decline in haircounts afterwards (once you reach the peak of regrowth at about the 1-year point) is just about the same level of decline as it is with the placebo users. In other words, the downward slope is about the same in both groups. That's why she said that topical minoxidil provides an "offset of regrowth", which is my FAVORITE phrase of all time, referring to topical minoxidil!

Summing it all up: Price's study, which went on for 96 weeks (that's almost 2 full years), didn't really reveal any evidence for a "tolerance" to minoxidil, because the haircounts for the minoxidil users during that second year declined at the same slow rate as the placebo users, strongly suggesting that minoxidil's effects "wear-off" not because of any "tolerance" issue, but just because of the fact that minoxidil doesn't really interfere with the fundamental balding process.

In fact, I think "wear-off" isn't really the correct choice of words. Minoxidil probably doesn't actually "wear-off" at all, it just eventually succumbs to balding, like ordinary untreated hairs eventually do. Just at a later date.

This being said, do you have any real long term studies of minoxidil users that the study simply showed a long term effect of minoxidil and that it very slowly declined?

Sure. See Olsen's study "Five-year follow-up of men with androgenetic alopecia treated with topical minoxidil", which is the longest-duration follow-up I've ever seen. I think it's still somewhere here on this site, if I remember correctly. It's an outstanding study, and another one I've been quoting from for years.

In short, what do the studies say about this? Do you kind of see a graph that effects are good for so and so years and very slowly get thin again?

Sure! Olsen's study above has a graph showing haircounts for the full 5 years! The average haircounts slowly declined, but they were still well above baseline after 5 years.

However, Vera Price is the only one who made the very astute observation that the slow decline appears to be the same as what happens in non-treated subjects. In my opinion, that's the KEY to really understanding what happens with topical minoxidil, and can be summed-up in this statement: It provides an OFFSET OF REGROWTH.

Bryan

 

[Healthy Nick]

So basically slow balding diffuse thinners can have a lot of success with minoxidil. And if there's no real tolerance, and it continues to work, then a diffuse thinner should be able to keep their hair a long time with minoxidil.


Because minoxidil thickens the hair up a lot, doesn't it take a lot more regrowth phases to shrink the follicle? Like, can a minoxidil hair fall out more times than a regular hair, and last longer? I am probably confusing you like I always do. sorry :lol:

 

[Healthy Nick]

Bryan, what else can be used as a DHT inhibitor? How effective are topical DHT inhibitors?

For the people that can't take finasteride, what is the best solution?

 

[KrazyK]

From my understanding it works different for different people. Some people it could still be regrowing hair until the 2 year mark, some people it could only work for 6 months... it matters on the person. But I think it's safe to say that you are better off using minoxidil and continue usage, then not using it at all. Even though there could be a decline in haircount at the 1 year or 2 year mark, you will still have more hair then if you didn't use minoxidil at all. But ofcourse you gotta weigh the options, if you want minoxidil on your head every single day for who knows until when. It kinda sucks, it's like if your on it, you gotta stay on it for the rest of your life, or else your hair loss is even greater since the balding has progressed. It's like making a deal with the devil(ie. the drug companies.. lol)

 

[Bryan]

It kinda sucks, it's like if your on it, you gotta stay on it for the rest of your life, or else your hair loss is even greater since the balding has progressed.

As long as people keep making this claim, I'll keep presenting the following graphs from Vera Price's recent minoxidil study. They show that haircounts and hairweights do indeed drop precipitously immediately after cessation of treatment, and they even drop BELOW that of the placebo users after three months' time. However, after another three months (six months altogether), they rebound back to about the same level as the placebo users. Check it out:

http://www.geocities.com/bryan50001/quitting-minoxidil.htm

Bryan

 

[The Gardener]

It does affect people differently. A coworker of mine, in fact, the person who first 'tapped me on the shoulder' and told me that I should look into minoxidil has been using it for 15 years.. starting way back in the day when 2% minoxidil was prescription only. He had bald temples just like I had. He regrew about 60% of his missing temples in two and a half years. He showed me pix, his wedding pix right before he got on the good sh*t.

And even now, 15 years later, his temples are still looking MUCH better than they did in his wedding pictures, before he started minoxidil. I am just thumbnailing it, but he looks like his temples are about 60% receeded from his baseline wedding pix, that is, his regrowth went from his high point of about 60% to now 40%. Sure, he has lost ground since his initial two-year mark, but he looks better now than before he started. He is complaining now of some thinness in the back, but hell, the guy is 47 and that just goes with the territory.

 

[youngguy_uk]

from what ive read all on this site, it seems only logical that minoxidil stops working (in terms of regrowing hair or aesthetically preventing male pattern baldness). however, you do have to keep using it to prevent other hairs from falling out. i dont think the body gets immune to minoxidil either. if the body became immune to it, it wouldnt matter if you dropped it.

however, it surely cant keep *continuously* working, the only loss being seen as due to the progression of male pattern baldness as one person suggested. If you think about it, some people have real slow and constantly progressing male pattern baldness. if they use minoxidil, they see results for however many months and then a slow decline in hair count. but their male pattern baldness was never that fast anyway, so how come its caught up with them already? seeing as most people see a wear off in effects between 6 months and 2 years, say, it seems like minoxidil only "works" in regrowing hairs in the short term. after that its just something you have to rely upon to not lose more hairs. however, that said, im not sure if hair would recover a bit from after a minoxidil-dropping shed. those charts i dont think are convincing - dont go on for long enough after the minoxidil was dropped.

just my opinion.

 

[Guest]

minoxidil works. It continues to work. And if you throw in some dht inhibitors(finasteride, spironolactone...) who knows how well it will work. Throw all studies out the window if you use minoxidil and finasteride together. I'm glad i started using the stuff on my temples, especially the left one. If i hadn't started it, my temples would have been fucked.

 

[Bryan]

i dont think the body gets immune to minoxidil either. if the body became immune to it, it wouldnt matter if you dropped it.

Good point.

however, it surely cant keep *continuously* working, the only loss being seen as due to the progression of male pattern baldness as one person suggested. If you think about it, some people have real slow and constantly progressing male pattern baldness. if they use minoxidil, they see results for however many months and then a slow decline in hair count. but their male pattern baldness was never that fast anyway, so how come its caught up with them already?

By definition, if their natural balding is progressing slowly enough, then their hair will indeed show the beneficial effects of minoxidil (in the specific sense that you know I mean) for a long period of time. Some people have in fact used minoxidil for many many years, apparently with the same good "results". But those "results" are due to having attained a certain stable level in their natural balding condition, with no clear and obvious worsening.

seeing as most people see a wear off in effects between 6 months and 2 years, say, it seems like minoxidil only "works" in regrowing hairs in the short term.

minoxidil's peak effect at inducing that "offset of extra growth" does occur around the 1-year point, on average. After that, the balding process continues at its same inexorable rate.

after that its just something you have to rely upon to not lose more hairs.

Again, you can't "rely" on minoxidil to retain hairs, except to the limited extent that it buys you a little more time.

however, that said, im not sure if hair would recover a bit from after a minoxidil-dropping shed. those charts i dont think are convincing - dont go on for long enough after the minoxidil was dropped.

Wow...just how much evidence do you require??

They showed a sudden drop immediately after cessation of minoxidil, then a bottoming-out after three months, then a sharp rebound headed back up again toward normal after another three months. Do you think that another three months after THAT, they take another steep drop in the DOWNWARD direction again? Or maybe they see-saw up and down forever at three-month intervals?? :wink:

I wouldn't get too paranoid about any of this. The charts seem to show that the negative effects of quitting minoxidil are only temporary. Don't lose any sleep over it.

Bryan

 

[mr_sparkle]

when you say stop working - do you mean stop regrowing or stop maintaining hair?

If you regrow a bit and then keep what u got surely that's a good thing?