minoxidil efficacy

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minoxidil1.gif


As I understand it, minoxidil loses it's efficacy after around 12-24 months of application (point A to point B) (someone correct me here if I am wrong here)

But continued use after point B will maintain the 'offset of growth' (C) harvested over this period.

So, firstly what would Finasteride do to the graph? would it make the angle of decline (in both the non-medicated and minoxidil plots) more shallow?

And I have read you can 'maintain' (after point B) with just one application of 5% minoxidil a day is this right?, as I have also read on here (from one of Dr Lee's minions I believe) that a single daily application actually does more damage than good.

:freaked2:

Cheers

Ty
 

HairlossTalk

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Can we steal this picture and use it on the site?

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minoxidil is just a short term fix. Thats why i hate it, but thats also why i like it. Its results are seen very quickly. Too bad it doesn't last too long. :cry:
 

under20

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Ive been on finasteride for the last 5 1/2 months and have not seen any benifits yet, in regrowth or a decline in shedding. At the same time I started propecia,I started putting 5% minoxidil on thin areas of my temple and now my hairline. I was wondering since minoxidil loses it regrowth properties after 1-2 years is this not a good idea. SHould i start applying it to my entire head now? I was gonna wait until I was on finasteride for a year to see if it helped me, but now Im confused. I have had decent results with minoxidil 1x a day and I know it would help me if I put it over my entire head. But if I wait a year will I be wasting my growth period on minoxidil? Or will minoxidil still be effective concerning regrowth for 2 years if I apply it to areas that it has not touched b4. I need some advice guys.
 

Axon

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I've been applying once a day for most of my regimen, and things are fine for me.

I continue to maintain past the 2 year mark.
 

Molecular Help

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This reminds me of a question I've always had about minoxidil results. How can they possibly take into account your genetically pretermined rate of baldness by the well known primary cause, dht?

I know they pick an area of the scalp before and after treatment and do a hair count/ thickness evaluation. But is there really a way to tell if minoxidil is losing it's efficacy or if you are just continuing to lose hair in those areas, faster or slower depending on genetics? Then it wouldn't be a case of minoxidil losing its efficacy, just that it can only do so much.

There's certainly a difference between the two... if Guy A is destined to progress from a NW2 to a NW4 in 15 years and Guy B is destined to go from NW2 to NW7 in the same time and they both start minoxidil at the same time the graph wouldn't look like that. Well I guess it would in general but over a much longer time frame so minoxidil wouldn't be a "quick fix that loses efficacy quickly too" but a rather long term regrowth then maintenance tool.

So basically the information is right but it seems that you're making minoxidil out to be something that works well for two years then brings you back to baseline rather quickly. I think that depends on a lot of other factors.
 
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HairlossTalk said:
Can we steal this picture and use it on the site?

HairLossTalk.com

yeah, no problems, maybe try this one ? (25 fps)

HLTminGrph.gif


or use the one above (50 fps)

Is the graph (as simplified as it is) correct? It is based on what I have read from Bryan on this subject.

cheers

Ty
 
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Molecular Help said:
So basically the information is right but it seems that you're making minoxidil out to be something that works well for two years then brings you back to baseline rather quickly. I think that depends on a lot of other factors.

that's kinda my question, would finasteride make the 'post minoxidil efficacy loss' (point B) decline shallower, or even (bless the good lord) level (ish)?

something like this

miniprop.gif


This is ignoring any loss in the efficacy of propecia (anyone got any info on this, time scales and so on?)

Ty
 

Molecular Help

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I remember seeing the something about the 5 year results of the propecia trials on this site but I can't seem to find it now despite repeated use of the almost invisible seeming impossible to activate search option.

What I remember though is that men taking propecia (who responded) remained above baseline at the 5 year point. The point of maximum regrowth occured at 2 years, followed by a drop off in hair count from there.

I believe this information, along with propecia success rates, is being interpreted waaaay to simplistically by many posters! For instance, I don't even think there's really any such thing as a non-responder (though I used the term above since everyone else seems to). Does it really make sense that 17% of the population are balding for a different reason? Some men are just destined to lose hair quickly despite significant a significant reduction in dht.... there's still some left and the exact mechanism of balding is not understood.

The key pieces of information I was able to remember from the 5 year results were based on averages of hundreds of men who took propecia. The do not mean that propecia "loses efficacy" at two years! Only that across the board, this was the average time of the most regrowth. One guy could have regrown half as much as another but kept it twice as long! The average would be the same. You can't judge or predict anything about your own situation absolutely.

What you can take heart in is that the 83% of the men remained over baseline- there's no way for averages to cover that up, that's an absolute figure. But the graph line between max regrowth and the drop off is totally based on averages of hundreds of men with different genetics.

Also let's not forget some men start off life with denser hair than others. If these men have a similar percentage of follicles that respond as men with less dense hair to begin with, they will have more regrowth.

Lotta factors....[/b]
 
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Molecular Help said:
Lotta factors...

hhmmmm, I see! so according to propecias 5 year results, my light blue dashed line (finasteride, no minoxidil) should start out rising till it hits maximum growth (on average 2 years) then start a slow drop that even after 5 years still remains above the base line?

this sounds good to me!

Once you factor in minoxidil, that should give you (on average) a whole load of years above the base line. Not a very scientific conclusion I admit, but I am not a scientist, I break into houses and steal jewellery.

Molecular Help said:
Also let's not forget some men start off life with denser hair than others. If these men have a similar percentage of follicles that respond as men with less dense hair to begin with, they will have more regrowth.[/b]

I am not sure this is right as these follically blessed individuals will still be measured from their own base line, the results are reported in percentages as opposed to absolute hair counts, hair diameters and so on, have I got this right?
 

wils

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yo dude, where do you get these graphs from i want one for my site
cheers
 
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I think Tyny dick (Tynan) made this up from the comfort of his computer that has probobly been on for the last 7 years.

I know a computer nerd when I see one.

Computer nerds are also known for making stuff up because they think it's cool and a fun thing to do.

The legitamacy of this site is now at stake for the moderater wants to put this homeade bullshit on a perfectly good website.
 

Bryan

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Wow, some really cool graphs, Tynan! You da man!!

Bryan
 
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Bald Eagle said:
I think Tyny...

T I N Y

Bald Eagle said:
...dick (Tynan) made this up from the comfort of his computer that has probobly been on for the last 7 years.

8

Bald Eagle said:
I know a computer nerd when I see one.

thank you

Bald Eagle said:
Computer nerds are also known for making stuff up because they think it's cool and a fun thing to do.

thank you

Bald Eagle said:
The legitamacy of this site is now at stake for the moderater wants to put this homeade bullshit on a perfectly good website.

I don't care what it takes, I will bring this site down, even if I have to do a graph a day.


thank you for your comments

Ty
 
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wils said:
yo dude, where do you get these graphs from i want one for my site
cheers

made 'em up on my NerdPro 8000 help yourself, but wait till I post the 'conclusion' graph, this should be more representative of what actually happens. (I hope)
 
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Bryan said:
Wow, some really cool graphs, Tynan! You da man!!

Bryan

cheers.

are they right? I know they are an extremely simplified view, but is the general idea right?

I am going to factor in the propecia 5 year results and post a new one, please tell me if I am in the right area.


Ty
 
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Hey Tynan, I have to say you got a good sense of humor. I went a little overboard on my comments but you made them funny.

Peace
 
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So you say your nerd 8000 has been on for eight years!!!

sh*t B!
 
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Basicly you got the idea right.
But in your very first graph, the rate of decline of minoxidil effects is too quick. You don't really decline as fast as the person who did not use it. In that graph, the minoxidil user declines down to "baseline" or point A too quickly. You should make the graph decline of minoxidil less than now.

The graph with the Propecia added is perfect, but you still need to change the red line of "minoxidil alone" decline a little slower. (not too slow...so that you can still see the minoxidil + Propecia declines slower than minoxidil alone).
 

TortoiseAndHair

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Oh, and can you have it oscillate up and down to signify sheds?
And how about a third and fourth amd fifth line to signify flakes with no treatment, then with finasteride & Min, then with finasteride & Min + Nizoral.

Oh, and what about copper peptides?

I'd also like to see a sharp dip in the lines for each ejaculation.

Oh yeah, nice graph by the way...
Seriously, how did you make it?
 
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