Minoxidil and hair growth, dose dependent?

[Ende]

I've been thinking. Some generic versions of Rogaine has much more minoxidil in them. I've seen 10% (100 mg/ml) and 15% (150mg/ml) - which are two and three times more than the original dose. People who increase the minoxidil dose when they're beginning to lose ground, claim they respond to it. Rogaine on the other hand, claims that using more than 50 mg twice a day, won't give you any more benefits. Did they even test more than 2- and 5%? I've seen some great responders to Rogaine Foam, but many of them use a lot more than intended. They go through a bottle in 14 days.

I believe that the effect on hair growth is dose dependent, and I think we should use as much topical minoxidil as we tolerate.

Share your thoughts.

 

[hairhoper]

Know what you mean.

I know it grows hair on my head, but it's such slow progress. I always feel like the drug works but I'm somehow not getting the most out of it.

There're several things that are dubious about the Rogaine instructions, for one the fact it only refers to the crown whereas we know Minoxidil grows hair everywhere. So if we're ignoring that aspect of the instructions why should we believe what it says about dosage.

I've recently started applying 3x daily (1x foam AM, 2x liquid PM) and I use more than recommended amount per application to cover the whole top area of my head. I'll be able to tell in a couple of months if this is making any difference.

I wish there was a convenient/affordable/trusted supplier of 10-15%. I'd start using it tomorrow. :/

 

[Rabid]

I respond pretty well to normal dose minoxidil. I've tried heroic doses before, and the only thing it did was cause a mini-Telogen Effluvium and make my body hair grow insanely long. For me past a certain point there are steep diminishing returns, and this point is not much more than 1 mL 5% liquid twice a day on the hairline/temples. Sometimes with .75 ml 3x day i can squeeze a little more out of it. I'm quite sure that a higher percentage would bring me no more gains. So I actually agree with the bottle on this one, lol. A lot could have to do with the size of the area the person is applying though, which can vary greatly.

 

[blaze]

I have heard enough reports that it would seem to indicate that higher doses do work better. But this cant be the rule always.

I remember reading a guy who used minoxidil 5% 4 times per day. So about 4ml minoxidil spaced 4 times throughout the day. He said he got better results.

Some have used 5% minoxidil then wanted more results and switched to 15% minoxidil and have noted no improvement at all.

More minoxidil = more sides though.

You would be better off looking for a growth stimulator to add to it.

 

[Rabid]

More minoxidil = more sides though.

You would be better off looking for a growth stimulator to add to it.

:agree:

viewtopic.php?f=42&t=64169&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

 

[Bryan]

I agree that minoxidil is dose-dependent (at least to a certain extent), but that doesn't necessarily mean that these higher concentrations that you see being advertised on Web sites are "higher dose". Since the highest percentage that will dissolve in standard Rogaine-types of vehicles is about 7.5% (that's what will dissolve in pure propylene glycol), anything higher than that (like these 15% and 20% concoctions you see being advertised) will require some very special topical vehicles of their own. The problem with that is, what if those unusual vehicles don't penetrate the skin as well as the alcohol, propylene glycol, and water that's used in standard minoxidil products? See what I mean? I think the guys who spend lots of $$$ on these "gee-whiz!" 15% and 20% minoxidil products are quite possibly being ripped-off. I think there's a very good reason why the makers of Rogaine have never bothered with going beyond a 5% product.

 

[Ende]

Your input is greatly appreciated as always. It's definitely alcohol which really makes the difference in terms of absorption.

 

[Ende]

What about Rogaine Foam? I seem to tolerate minoxidil pretty well, and I use more foam than recommended for each application.

 

[JWM]

The newest thing as of late is to apply minoxidil more often, say, up to 4 times a day. Someone over at another site did this with great results, a Greek guy on the success forums here did the same with excellent results (although he also used Retin-A and Nizoral liberally), and if you want to go way back, Oz, the guy who invented Oz Brew, recommended using the brew four times a day.

There are also quite a few who have claimed decent regrowth by using more of the standard dose of foam and liquid. I have a friend who only uses Rogaine Foam and Nizoral and has regrown a ton of hair. He also uses about a can of foam a week!

Now, this will likely bring about more side effects, and applying goop to your head 4 times a day seems exceptionally tedious, so this 'new' practice is hardly without its cons.

But hey, if you're desperate.

 

[Ende]

If you're able to increase the terminal hair count by temporary going craaaazy with ze foam, that would be great. I think RU58841 alone will be able to maintain the result.

 

[Ende]

It's about realizing the true potential of the drug.

 

[JWM]

You think RU would maintain results from excessive minoxidil use? If so, guess again.

 

[Ende]

And how do you know? It has never been attempted. It's not comparable to finasteride or dutasteride, and it's still androgens which miniaturizes your hair when you quit minoxidil. I don't see why anti-androgens like RU58841 and CB-03-01 shouldn't be able to maintain gains.

 

[Bryan]

It's been observed for YEARS on hairloss sites that Propecia alone isn't able to maintain hair that was previously regrown with minoxidil. I think it's very unlikely that RU58841 would be any different.

 

[Ende]

Why? RU58841 works by a different mechanism, as you already know very well. It's superior to finasteride, and personally, I saw a drastic, cosmetic improvement after 3 weeks treatment, and that's with supraphysiological levels of androgens. Using large amounts of AAS wasn't possible with Propecia! I think it's possible to maintain the results with RU58841 alone.

When CB-03-01 reaches the market, do you think people will be using Rogaine for anything else than regrowth?

 

[Bryan]

Why? RU58841 works by a different mechanism, as you already know very well. It's superior to finasteride, and personally, I saw a drastic, cosmetic improvement after 3 weeks treatment, and that's with supraphysiological levels of androgens. Using large amounts of AAS wasn't possible with Propecia! I think it's possible to maintain the results with RU58841 alone.

Okay, but don't say I didn't warn you!

When CB-03-01 reaches the market, do you think people will be using Rogaine for anything else than regrowth?

I'm not sure what you mean by that. People aren't using Rogaine NOW for anything but regrowth.

 

[Nashville Hairline]

I dont believe RU58841 can maintain minoxidil gains either as minoxidil gains are nothing to do with androgens - current best guess (and it still is a guess) is its a "potassium channel opener"

 

[Ende]

The point is that minoxidil aids in recovering miniaturized hair follicles, and there is no reason those follicles should miniaturize again, when the androgen receptors are blocked by a potent anti-androgen. A lot of people are using minoxidil in fear of losing their gains. I'm not going to argue with finasteride, but it's another game with anti-androgens like RU58841.

Anyway, this thread is about minoxidil and regrowth - not finasteride, RU58841 or other anti-androgens. Let's stick to the topic, and make another thread about this, if it's something to discuss. I know I was the one who brought it up.

 

[Bryan]

The point is that minoxidil aids in recovering miniaturized hair follicles, and there is no reason those follicles should miniaturize again, when the androgen receptors are blocked by a potent anti-androgen.

Minoxidil is a kind of "life-support" for badly damaged hair follicles. Taking away minoxidil from sickly hair follicles (even if there is no androgenic stimulation going on) is like "pulling the plug" on someone in intensive care! :shock:

A lot of people are using minoxidil in fear of losing their gains.

And that's a VERY reasonable fear! People who use topical minoxidil alone are almost certainly doomed to fail in the long-run.

I'm not going to argue with finasteride, but it's another game with anti-androgens like RU58841.

I think even a person who is castrated will lose what he gained from minoxidil, if he decides to stop using it.

 

[JWM]

:agree:

But hey, if he wants to try it...