Men With Persistent Sexual Symptoms After Finasteride Show No Evidence Of Androgen Deficiency

[WMQ]

you obviously know your stuff about this drug. would you say pfs is curable then? are you familiar with cdnuts and his recovery?

I have no idea about this cdnuts guy, I just frequented propeciahelp and solvepfs for a while because of my permanent up regulation after quitting finasteride

I do believe pfs(in the hypogonadal sense) is curable though. The body has amazing power to restore itself. It's just very hard to manage and get out of that viscous cycle if you're already hit by it.

Just eat healthy, sleep well, exercise a lot, and stay away from all the hormone altering drugs that might seemingly give you a temporary boost.

 

[ahmed wolf]

Do anything else to save your hair, Rogaine, topical solutions, RU58841, do not take the chance with Finasteride.

there are pol reporting sude

Finasteride doesn't kill receptors, it is exactly the opposite: it UPREGULATE androgen receptors while you're on the drug (common sense agrees with that). However, after quitting the drug cold turkey, your body undergoes a drastic rebound of androgen PLUS the already upregulated androgen receptors throughout your body, this might make the body believe that it needs to shut down androgen signaling, thereby causing androgen deficiency or androgen receptor downregulation. For some reason this never go away in the pfs sufferers.

Thi is what I read from several pfs forum threads. It's a plausible theory.

like u said its a theory with out study's to support
how can someone trapping the doss if he took it for a day or two and got sides?

 

[ahmed wolf]

I have no idea about this cdnuts guy, I just frequented propeciahelp and solvepfs for a while because of my permanent up regulation after quitting finasteride

I do believe pfs(in the hypogonadal sense) is curable though. The body has amazing power to restore itself. It's just very hard to manage and get out of that viscous cycle if you're already hit by it.

Just eat healthy, sleep well, exercise a lot, and stay away from all the hormone altering drugs that might seemingly give you a temporary boost.

for how long did u use it?
i am no endo doctor but if ur sides are there cuz of low testosterone or dht u will need a hormon therpy the faster u do that the faster u recover look at bodybuilders that nor use but abuse steroids in a dose beyond a gram a week of testosterone they all recover after pct but they do it after stopping the drugs and they are out of there system
but guys with pfs try to take clomid after years of stopping the drug that wont help
the body is smart and if u took finasteride for years and got sides and ignore them then u need pct asap if u wana recover not cdnuts guy of ph.com or these fucked up articles online that its permanent
u need a gr8 endo doctor to set u up
there are claims about men with pfs have normal hormones level but sadly they dont have a basline numbers to compare with cuz maybe before finasteride they had 900 test levels but now 600 so there bodies are not adapting to thouse new levels

 

[holyhead]

Finasteride is lethal to 5ar enzyme..Not an inhibitor as most drugs but an irreversible death to the enzymes occurs..It is destroyed..Some say that the enzyme reproduces in the body..I still have not recovered and don't know if it is reversible in some men..I got......

Loss of energy, decline in physical wellbeing and shape, massive weight gain and fat/fluid retention but only in certain areas..Grey chest hair and beard hair almost over night..And the crazy straw hair or old lady like hair dryer and burnt up in texture..Several things you NO control over..

 

[WMQ]

this is what is scary about this drug. I had all the stuff you mentioned above. I barely had any sexual sides. if anything I had a higher libido on it. but its all the other stuff. it messes with your general health. at least it did me. I think I had one of the worst reactions to it to be honest. I felt like I was being poisoned. but I also think I had one of the best reactions in terms of hair growth. after 6 months of heavy shedding, I regrow between 1-2 norwoods. which was impressive as f*** to me because it wasn't super recent loss. I guess I was just too sensitive to the stuff. great for my hair, bad for everything else.

2 Norwood grades regrowth? That's insane!

Your story sounds interesting to me in that:

1. You didn't get sexual sides yet had great response. According to my experience on these forums it's usually those who got awful sexual sides who are good responders. I believe most people would agree with that. And actually you might got even higher libido, which is known to be a huge sign of bad response leading to worsening of hair loss.
2. You got fatigue without sexual side effects? I always thought that fatigue happens to us because of the androgen deprivation. At least for me it is so since I get it with every kind of anti androgen from RU to CB and these things do not interact with neurosteroids like finasteride does.

Would you mind telling your story with finasteride in more details?

1. During your 6 months shed, did you notice any change in scalp itch/inflammation/dandruff and oil production?
2. When did you notice your sides? Did you have any sides besides fatigue/brain fog/insomnia?
3. How long did you stay on the drug?

Thanks in advance

 

[sunchyme1]

2 Norwood grades regrowth? That's insane!

Your story sounds interesting to me in that:

1. You didn't get sexual sides yet had great response. According to my experience on these forums it's usually those who got awful sexual sides who are good responders. I believe most people would agree with that. And actually you might got even higher libido, which is known to be a huge sign of bad response leading to worsening of hair loss.
2. You got fatigue without sexual side effects? I always thought that fatigue happens to us because of the androgen deprivation. At least for me it is so since I get it with every kind of anti androgen from RU to CB and these things do not interact with neurosteroids like finasteride does.

Would you mind telling your story with finasteride in more details?

1. During your 6 months shed, did you notice any change in scalp itch/inflammation/dandruff and oil production?
2. When did you notice your sides? Did you have any sides besides fatigue/brain fog/insomnia?
3. How long did you stay on the drug?

Thanks in advance

i haven't read enough on those forums to come up with generalisations about the kind of sides people get. And i really don't know/understand the science behind the drug itself and what it does to you. But heres my experience anyway from what I can remember....

1. I cant precisely remember any change in my itch/inflammation during the shed. But before I started taking finasteride, I would get that typical itch people talk about fairly frequently. And have done since I was 17 or so when I started balding. Not everyday, maybe once a week or every few weeks, I cant remember. But fairly frequently over the years. But since I have been off the drug I VERY rarely get it anymore. And I have been off the drug for 2 years now after being on it for a year. Im 29 now. I actually miss the feeling of thousands of ants crawling on my head lol

The only time I ever get that itch now is when I am extremely tired/sleep deprived and pass out into a deep deep nap. Then I feel an intense itch in my scalp, and generally feel pretty good overall for a short while. Is this some kind of dht rush? I have no idea. I no its sounds crazy but that's the only time I get the itch now.

As for oil production, im not sure about my hair, but my skin now gets very oily since quitting the drug. Which drives me f*****g nuts. I had fairly normal/dry skin before. I have read the opposite happening to a lot of guys where their skin has become really dry now. But for me its opposite.

2. I took the drug for a year and I would say I got sides pretty soon after taking it but didn't put it down to finasteride. And they progressively got worse over that year. At first it would just be a feeling of being generally unwell every now and then. I put it down to stress, bad sleep etc etc. But around the 6 month mark it would be nearly every day. Brain fog, terrible sleep, just general feeling like dog sh*t. I kept on it for the next 5 months or so because I didn't think it was the finasteride. I thought it was stress. Which I suffered a lot from at that time. And im generally quite an anxious person in general. I was only looking out for sexual sides, and because I wasn't really getting those I kept f*****g taking it. In the end I had enough and quit it and got that familiar crash people talk about. After about 2 weeks of quitting it, I got that dht rush everybody gets and felt f*****g AMAZING, then I crashed and felt even worse. those few days of crashing were the worst of my life. I cannot tell you how ill I felt. It was I was a druggie going through withdrawal. f*****g awful

3. around one year


Talking of sexual sides, I actually have more sexual sides now than I did before. I never got any ball ache whatsoever on the drug. But I do now. And sometimes it is f*****g awful. Extremely tender and intense. It can be horrible. My libido is lower now im off the drug, but its still ok i think. I cant remember if I had any morning wood during my time on finasteride (or if I had lost it whilst on finasteride), but I am starting to get it more and more now im off it. Which has to be a good sign. Things are getting better but i have sh*t lifestyle which i need to fix if I want to get rid of this sh*t.

The stuff I read on swolesource is very encouraging to me. Those guys truly believe it isn't permanent. And lots of guys there who follow this very healthy lifestyle are getting better.

 

[sunchyme1]

Carrying on from my sexual sides...when I do get them now (intense ball ache and low libido), I feel sh*t overall. Bad fatigue. brain fog, and feeling like dog sh*t. It is an overall feeling of sh*t all round. Not one particular type of side effect. I either feel great overall mentally, physically, sexually....or I feel bad overall. On the drug however, I never had these sexual sides. At least I don't remember anyway. No problem with erections whatsoever (now they can feel noticeably weak depending on how I feel...its a weird sensation). But saying that the drug made me feel very ill, so I wasn't exactly in the mood for sex a lot. So maybe I did get them, I just didn't notice them because of how bad the other sides were. Its hard to think about sex when you feel like puking up.

Also I haven't had any proper testing done on my hormones. But ive had my testosterone checked a few times in the past year or so and the doctors have told me its always been high. I have great testosterone numbers apparently lol. Whatever that means to you....

 

[Samson123]

This is all so ridiculous in a way and it's something I mention in every post and I am glad that WMQ is posting about this too because it should be something every finasteride user should be aware of: AR upregulation. IMO, it is THE THING that everyone needs to understand about this drug and the insane denial of this obvious process on hairloss forums will cause a lot of suffering in both PFS people and those that experience accelerated hairloss.

The responses to finasteride are all over the place, some people can quit the drug cold turkey after many years of use and not experience anything negative, some even keep their hair, while others, like me, only experienced greatly accelerated hairloss/minituarization everywhere. When I dropped the dose from .5 mg to .25 mg for a week six months ago I lost years worth of hair overnight that gave me bald spots everywhere, even in my donor area. Not a good feeling. The only thing that can explain this is massive AR up-regulation and I think those losing hair with already low levels of DHT are most at risk of having this reaction. I agree with WMQ about upregulation and PFS because these guys often have normal hormone levels it's just that their receptors haven't 'normalized'. I don't think there is any way to measure upregulation so people need to start low and slow with finasteride because it can f*** you over in many ways and maybe the only predictor of a negative reaction would be baseline dht levels. AR upregulation should be on the front page of every hairloss forum. Every week someone comes on this board with a finasteride horror story, either worsening hairloss or debilitating side effects, and they don't know why because, unfortunately, hairloss forums are really just terrible places to get real life info about finasteride. It's really a shame because I think most negative reactions are preventable.

 

[ahmed wolf]

This is all so ridiculous in a way and it's something I mention in every post and I am glad that WMQ is posting about this too because it should be something every finasteride user should be aware of: AR upregulation. IMO, it is THE THING that everyone needs to understand about this drug and the insane denial of this obvious process on hairloss forums will cause a lot of suffering in both PFS people and those that experience accelerated hairloss.

The responses to finasteride are all over the place, some people can quit the drug cold turkey after many years of use and not experience anything negative, some even keep their hair, while others, like me, only experienced greatly accelerated hairloss/minituarization everywhere. When I dropped the dose from .5 mg to .25 mg for a week six months ago I lost years worth of hair overnight that gave me bald spots everywhere, even in my donor area. Not a good feeling. The only thing that can explain this is massive AR up-regulation and I think those losing hair with already low levels of DHT are most at risk of having this reaction. I agree with WMQ about upregulation and PFS because these guys often have normal hormone levels it's just that their receptors haven't 'normalized'. I don't think there is any way to measure upregulation so people need to start low and slow with finasteride because it can f*** you over in many ways and maybe the only predictor of a negative reaction would be baseline dht levels. AR upregulation should be on the front page of every hairloss forum. Every week someone comes on this board with a finasteride horror story, either worsening hairloss or debilitating side effects, and they don't know why because, unfortunately, hairloss forums are really just terrible places to get real life info about finasteride. It's really a shame because I think most negative reactions are preventable.

w

This is all so ridiculous in a way and it's something I mention in every post and I am glad that WMQ is posting about this too because it should be something every finasteride user should be aware of: AR upregulation. IMO, it is THE THING that everyone needs to understand about this drug and the insane denial of this obvious process on hairloss forums will cause a lot of suffering in both PFS people and those that experience accelerated hairloss.

The responses to finasteride are all over the place, some people can quit the drug cold turkey after many years of use and not experience anything negative, some even keep their hair, while others, like me, only experienced greatly accelerated hairloss/minituarization everywhere. When I dropped the dose from .5 mg to .25 mg for a week six months ago I lost years worth of hair overnight that gave me bald spots everywhere, even in my donor area. Not a good feeling. The only thing that can explain this is massive AR up-regulation and I think those losing hair with already low levels of DHT are most at risk of having this reaction. I agree with WMQ about upregulation and PFS because these guys often have normal hormone levels it's just that their receptors haven't 'normalized'. I don't think there is any way to measure upregulation so people need to start low and slow with finasteride because it can f*** you over in many ways and maybe the only predictor of a negative reaction would be baseline dht levels. AR upregulation should be on the front page of every hairloss forum. Every week someone comes on this board with a finasteride horror story, either worsening hairloss or debilitating side effects, and they don't know why because, unfortunately, hairloss forums are really just terrible places to get real life info about finasteride. It's really a shame because I think most negative reactions are preventable.

This is all so ridiculous in a way and it's something I mention in every post and I am glad that WMQ is posting about this too because it should be something every finasteride user should be aware of: AR upregulation. IMO, it is THE THING that everyone needs to understand about this drug and the insane denial of this obvious process on hairloss forums will cause a lot of suffering in both PFS people and those that experience accelerated hairloss.

The responses to finasteride are all over the place, some people can quit the drug cold turkey after many years of use and not experience anything negative, some even keep their hair, while others, like me, only experienced greatly accelerated hairloss/minituarization everywhere. When I dropped the dose from .5 mg to .25 mg for a week six months ago I lost years worth of hair overnight that gave me bald spots everywhere, even in my donor area. Not a good feeling. The only thing that can explain this is massive AR up-regulation and I think those losing hair with already low levels of DHT are most at risk of having this reaction. I agree with WMQ about upregulation and PFS because these guys often have normal hormone levels it's just that their receptors haven't 'normalized'. I don't think there is any way to measure upregulation so people need to start low and slow with finasteride because it can f*** you over in many ways and maybe the only predictor of a negative reaction would be baseline dht levels. AR upregulation should be on the front page of every hairloss forum. Every week someone comes on this board with a finasteride horror story, either worsening hairloss or debilitating side effects, and they don't know why because, unfortunately, hairloss forums are really just terrible places to get real life info about finasteride. It's really a shame because I think most negative reactions are preventable.

is it possible some could damge ar after 2 doses ?

 

[Samson123]

Idk, but some people are very sensitive to meds and I've read enough horror stories to make me think nothing should be ruled out with this drug. You will most likely be fine. Idk what dose you started at but 1 mg is a shock to the system and that might scare people away. That's why it is better to slowly taper onto the drug. If you are losing hair and want to give it a try again, wait a couple more weeks, get a dht test, if it's low that means you have highly sensitive receptors and finasteride may not only not help but could speed up hairloss. You could still always try it at a lower dose, like .25 mg.

 

[ahmed wolf]

Idk, but some people are very sensitive to meds and I've read enough horror stories to make me think nothing should be ruled out with this drug. You will most likely be fine. Idk what dose you started at but 1 mg is a shock to the system and that might scare people away. That's why it is better to slowly taper onto the drug. If you are losing hair and want to give it a try again, wait a couple more weeks, get a dht test, if it's low that means you have highly sensitive receptors and finasteride may not only not help but could speed up hairloss. You could still always try it at a lower dose, like .25 mg.

i will neve take it again i took for 3 days and stopped cuz of sides being doing blood work every week now all my levels are high like always but why i am not feeling the same morning wood and spontaneous woods lol are back but i am afraid to touch it lol so is it in my head?

 

[Samson123]

I would not say the side effects are in your head as everyone seems to respond differently to finasteride, which is unfortunate. What are your dht levels? What dose did you start at? I think you would be ok trying out .25 mg. There is no reason to go higher than .5 mg too as there is very little dht inhibition above that dose. My own experience with .5 mg and the flat dose response curve verified that. People on hairloss forums will throw around finasteride studies that say .25 mg is almost the same as 1 mg. Not true, not at all in my experience or that of others. Remember, no finasteride studies ever showed anyone getting worse on finasteride, just lol. Happens all the time so take the finasteride studies with a grain of salt. So wait until you feel like you have recovered, but also anxiety can obviously have an impact on ED. Relax a bit, you only took it three times. If you want to save your hair I wouldn't give up on finasteride just yet.

 

[sunchyme1]

This is all so ridiculous in a way and it's something I mention in every post and I am glad that WMQ is posting about this too because it should be something every finasteride user should be aware of: AR upregulation. IMO, it is THE THING that everyone needs to understand about this drug and the insane denial of this obvious process on hairloss forums will cause a lot of suffering in both PFS people and those that experience accelerated hairloss.

The responses to finasteride are all over the place, some people can quit the drug cold turkey after many years of use and not experience anything negative, some even keep their hair, while others, like me, only experienced greatly accelerated hairloss/minituarization everywhere. When I dropped the dose from .5 mg to .25 mg for a week six months ago I lost years worth of hair overnight that gave me bald spots everywhere, even in my donor area. Not a good feeling. The only thing that can explain this is massive AR up-regulation and I think those losing hair with already low levels of DHT are most at risk of having this reaction. I agree with WMQ about upregulation and PFS because these guys often have normal hormone levels it's just that their receptors haven't 'normalized'. I don't think there is any way to measure upregulation so people need to start low and slow with finasteride because it can f*** you over in many ways and maybe the only predictor of a negative reaction would be baseline dht levels. AR upregulation should be on the front page of every hairloss forum. Every week someone comes on this board with a finasteride horror story, either worsening hairloss or debilitating side effects, and they don't know why because, unfortunately, hairloss forums are really just terrible places to get real life info about finasteride. It's really a shame because I think most negative reactions are preventable.

Samson are you familiar with the science of this drug?

what are your thoughts on pfs? is it simply a case of eating right and working out over a period of time to get yourself back to normal?

all these guys on propecihelp and solvepfs get all these blood tests and go on all these random protocols using all kinds of other drugs but in the end it gets them nowhere. the only guys I have seen get better are a bunch of guys on swolesouce using cdnuts protocol of healthy living.

 

[ahmed wolf]

I would not say the side effects are in your head as everyone seems to respond differently to finasteride, which is unfortunate. What are your dht levels? What dose did you start at? I think you would be ok trying out .25 mg. There is no reason to go higher than .5 mg too as there is very little dht inhibition above that dose. My own experience with .5 mg and the flat dose response curve verified that. People on hairloss forums will throw around finasteride studies that say .25 mg is almost the same as 1 mg. Not true, not at all in my experience or that of others. Remember, no finasteride studies ever showed anyone getting worse on finasteride, just lol. Happens all the time so take the finasteride studies with a grain of salt. So wait until you feel like you have recovered, but also anxiety can obviously have an impact on ED. Relax a bit, you only took it three times. If you want to save your hair I wouldn't give up on finasteride just yet.

i dont care about my hair any more its wake up call what happened to me all my levels at the higher end or above with one or 2 numbers
my finasteride was stored is hot place in may car for 7 months lol bo direct sun light but the car get super hot

 

[Samson123]

I only know the basics of what finasteride does. I have no real insights into PFS as I have no experience with it. The only side effect I've suffered is accelerated hairloss, lol, nothing else. It seems like the idea that ARs don't downregulate in the presence of normal hormone levels would be the main problem, but then you have guys like the owner of this site that quit finasteride and did not lose any hair until he started TRT. If I recall, he had permanently lowered dht levels, which isn't the case with everyone. That doesn't make a lot of sense, but there it is. I think that suggests that PFS could come from a number of different angles. The effects of this drug are just so goddamn unpredictable.

 

[Samson123]

Ahmed, I hope that you are really ok with your hair and that you don't regret it in the future. That's probably the healthier route on several levels. Being aware now of what messing with your hormones can do is a good thing, but remember lots of guys have been taking finasteride for over twenty years with no problems. A lot of guys just take .25 mg and that's all they need. A lot of men that experience sides that continue end up getting over it as the body adjusts, then again, some just keep getting worse, that's why I recommend starting on.25mg for a while.

 

[ahmed wolf]

Ahmed, I hope that you are really ok with your hair and that you don't regret it in the future. That's probably the healthier route on several levels. Being aware now of what messing with your hormones can do is a good thing, but remember lots of guys have been taking finasteride for over twenty years with no problems. A lot of guys just take .25 mg and that's all they need. A lot of men that experience sides that continue end up getting over it as the body adjusts, then again, some just keep getting worse, that's why I recommend starting on.25mg for a while.

no man i am done my only regret that i took the drug knowing itvcan cause sides
my hope is to recover to my past self

 

[ahmed wolf]

I only know the basics of what finasteride does. I have no real insights into PFS as I have no experience with it. The only side effect I've suffered is accelerated hairloss, lol, nothing else. It seems like the idea that ARs don't downregulate in the presence of normal hormone levels would be the main problem, but then you have guys like the owner of this site that quit finasteride and did not lose any hair until he started TRT. If I recall, he had permanently lowered dht levels, which isn't the case with everyone. That doesn't make a lot of sense, but there it is. I think that suggests that PFS could come from a number of different angles. The effects of this drug are just so goddamn unpredictable.

it depends on hiw much they wore on the drug my doctor told me u cant have pfs after a short time of use no mater how fucked ur body is and he helps alot of bodybuilders suffers from ed and sexual issues cuz of abusing steroids