male pattern baldness without a genetic history?

baraja

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Hi - tried this on another forum but got no results. Hoping you guys can help.

Background: I'm 24 (nearing 25), and have a very mild history of Androgenetic Alopecia in my family, if any: my mother's father still has a lush head of hair at 85, my father's father starting receding in his 50s, my father is just beginning to recede now at 58, and my father's brother is still OK at 56. We do have pretty lousy scalp health on my dad's side (Scottish - dermatitis or psoriasis, I forget which; mine's bad enough that T-Gel doesn't even really do the trick, but daily Nizoral 1% has started to), but that's about it.

In January I started noticing hair loss; more accurately, my girlfriend at the time found a patch of hair in the drain and started teasing me about balding. I had just double-dyed my hair for the first time (black, then black again with red), so we figured that the dye had nuked it and that it was all a big joke. For a while I just kept checking the shed hairs to see if they were black, and as they typically were, I attributed the loss to the dye job, but after two months of shedding 200+ hairs a day I began to worry. One night I was walking around Pasadena and felt a mild wind ruffling my scalp in places I never knew I had, so I decided to make a doctor's appointment. I did my homework, asked all the right questions, and was totally neglected by a very apathetic and very bald doctor who'd scheduled me fifteen minutes before his lunch break. "Cyclical shedding" was his verdict: "you shed 200-300 hairs a day normally anyway". Sure. That set me back another month trying to find another derm to look at me, and I finally have an appointment on Friday.

Anyway, that leads me to my question. It's now April and I'm still shedding a good 200 hairs a day. The Nizoral doesn't seem to have much of an effect on the shed, though it's done wonders for my scalp (though it's still white, especially on the top of my head, and my hair basically looks like it's been sprinkled with a salt shaker here and there). I don't think I suffered any stressful events to set off telogen effluvium (had a nasty ankle sprain or break last May that I couldn't treat because I wasn't insured which did a number on my system, but that was at least five months before any shedding), so I'm reluctantly figuring I must have male pattern baldness. While my loss appears to be somewhat diffuse (I can pull hairs out of my sideburns, for example, without feeling any pain), it's concentrated largely on the top of my head, and the loss itself manifests largely in an increased part rather than any spots or thinning at the temples. My hairline doesn't really seem to have receded (I have a scar there from when I was three that hasn't become any more visible). My one question for you guys is just how I could've picked up male pattern baldness. Does it have to have a specific genetic history? I can't find one in my family: is it possible to have a much more exacerbated condition than my father/paternal grandpa?

Thanks for any help, means the world to me. Very concerned about this and want to be aggressive in treatment; lost an aunt to cancer this year who was diagnosed too late, so learned a lot about attacking problems with haste.
 

Back In Time

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I am in the same boat. If I were to go by all the males in my family on either side, including cousins, uncles, grandfathers, etc, I shouldn't be losing my hair at all. Heck both my grandfathers had all their hair when they died, at an elderly age. I am (actually was, read below) losing my hair in the pattern in my avatar, fairly typical male hairloss.

I'm having good results thus far on generic Propecia (Fincar) and Kirkland Rogaine though, so I'm far from losing hope. Not losing hair anymore, and already growing some back. Temples are way better, crown is way better, diffuse areas are a little thicker. I've only been on since Jan 1st, so I'm hoping it gets better and better.
 

hoit

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baraja said:
My one question for you guys is just how I could've picked up male pattern baldness. Does it have to have a specific genetic history? I can't find one in my family: is it possible to have a much more exacerbated condition than my father/paternal grandpa?

that's pretty unusual, but not completely improbable. More than likely the gene's stayed recessive for a few generations before unfortunately coming active again with you.

I had less hair at 18 then my dad does now in his 60's. sh*t happens I guess.
 

Johnny24601

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re:

You mother's DNA has an equal contribution to your genetic make-up. If you are losing hair from the top of your head (only) then it is 99% sure you have male pattern baldness. Discussing how this gene has made it into you is irrelevant, treating the hairloss is the only important thing. You have male pattern baldness, who cares where it came from?
I look forward to someone posting the exact same story in about three weeks .
 

stuglue

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This is interesting as nobody on either side(mum and dad)has any baldness in the family.Their is nobody with a bald head.My father has plenty of hair and he's 55.His father died with plenty of hair whilst my mum's dad also passed away with all his hair(it was totally grey)So their is no reason as to why my hair isn't as thick as my father's.I could undersand if my father was bald as a friend of mine his dad is bald and he lost his hair early 20's.I am 31 and it isn't as thick as t was when i was 20 obviously.I seem to have inherited his bad eye sight though :( Does going grey mean anything?
 

baraja

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Re: re:

Johnny24601 said:
You mother's DNA has an equal contribution to your genetic make-up. If you are losing hair from the top of your head (only) then it is 99% sure you have male pattern baldness. Discussing how this gene has made it into you is irrelevant, treating the hairloss is the only important thing. You have male pattern baldness, who cares where it came from?

Well that's the thing, I don't know if I do have male pattern baldness or not. My mother's family has even less baldness than my father's (literally zero), the loss is not exclusively from the top of my head (plenty from the sides, though worst on top), and I don't have any bald spots or patches, just diffuse thinning. Saw a second derm this morning and got a second negative, but nobody is giving me anything in the way of a compelling explanation. Ugh. Thanks for the help though guys, any more is greatly appreciated. Making a third appointment: anyone have recommendations on how to persuade a Doctor to give me a prescription? Driving me crazy that I can't get Propecia as a precautionary measure at the least.
 

Johnny24601

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If you are losing hair over your entire head (meaning top and sides) then it is most likely not caused by male pattern baldness. If the top of your head is the only place that you are losing hair then it is a 99% that it is male pattern baldness related. male pattern baldness can be recessive, skip generations and son on. You can have five brothers and 4 have a full head of hair and one is bald. Though most are able to see some sort of male pattern baldness in their family history (father, cousin or uncle). Many people with male pattern baldness have come here and tried to convince themsleves that they are not balding in any way. When you never saw it coming it is hard to accept. My father and both grandfathers have full heads of hair and only two out of seven uncles have any sign of hairloss, so I know. Either way, get yourself checked out to confirm. Post photos and the experienced posters on this board will be able to tell. Good luck.
 

Chrisknight

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Re: re:

Johnny24601 said:
If you are losing hair over your entire head (meaning top and sides) then it is most likely not caused by male pattern baldness. If the top of your head is the only place that you are losing hair then it is a 99% that it is male pattern baldness related. male pattern baldness can be recessive, skip generations and son on. You can have five brothers and 4 have a full head of hair and one is bald. Though most are able to see some sort of male pattern baldness in their family history (father, cousin or uncle). Many people with male pattern baldness have come here and tried to convince themsleves that they are not balding in any way. When you never saw it coming it is hard to accept. My father and both grandfathers have full heads of hair and only two out of seven uncles have any sign of hairloss, so I know. Either way, get yourself checked out to confirm. Post photos and the experienced posters on this board will be able to tell. Good luck.

What does it mean if your sides and back are thinning? Can you (or anyone else) list all the the things it could be?
 

ronaldkia

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anybody in 2006, at this day and age, who still thinks that male pattern baldness is genetics is totally stupid.
 

stuglue

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And so where else does it come from then.I like my mother and father have to wear glasses because i have inherited their poor eyesight.Surely you can inherit other family traits
 

hoit

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ronaldkia said:
anybody in 2006, at this day and age, who still thinks that male pattern baldness is genetics is totally stupid.

ha ha ha ha ha etc. etc.
 

chewbaca

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how do u explain men with no male pattern baldness history in their families having a Norwood 3.

I believe....triggering factors and non genetic factors are involved.....especially in the case of disffuse thinners.....

consider this,, a one point of time DHT levels in your body shoot up and then it causes a feedback mechanism whch is irreverisble.if this is valid, then male pattern baldness should be considered a chronic disease
 

Back In Time

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It's genetics.

Even if I were to assume for a moment what you say is true about "one point of time DHT levels in your body shoot up and then it causes a feedback mechanism whch is irreverisble" it's still genetics, you would be predisposed to have that condition based on your genes.

I have no history of it in my family of those that I can trace back (parents, grandparents, uncles, cousins, etc), but all that means is it is a rare occurrence in my family. Probably a recessive gene on one side or the other, and I was just the unlucky one to get it. There is nothing magical about it, it's not a disease. It's no different than being the only one in your family that is left handed or has green eyes, or some other fairly rare trait. It can be studied as a genetic trait that is passed along just like a predisposition to being tall or short, thin or fat, blond or brunette can be studied. If I could somehow line up all of my ancestors for the last thousand years or so I would be able to trace it back along one family line or another, just like anything else.
 
G

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It is more than possible...

It is a MYTH nowadays that you won't get male pattern baldness if you don't have family history with male pattern baldness... (that was thought 10 years ago, no more)

I know a lot of guys (including me) who have no family members with male pattern baldness and we have male pattern baldness.

Sometimes, you get the gene from your mother (and women we know dont have male pattern baldness) and because of that gene you get male pattern baldness. I don't know if i was clear, ;)
 

Back In Time

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You were very clear, and I think you are absolutely right. Genes are tricky little devils. :evil:
 

The Gardener

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"I have male pattern baldness, but there is no male pattern baldness in my family"

Maybe not in the family that is alive at this time, and that you have come into contact with. But, somewhere, way back there, you have a relative who had male pattern baldness.
 

JayB

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its retarted. there isnt a person on this earth who does not have SOME distant relative who was bald.
 

Back In Time

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JayB said:
its retarted. there isnt a person on this earth who does not have SOME distant relative who was bald.

You don't exhibit every gene from every ancestor. It's just that finding a pattern is a often a helpful indicator. Now, it's great when you can find that pattern within your living relatives, but just because you can't doesn't mean that there isn't a pattern there. Take this for example: Say you have brown eyes, and both your parents have blue eyes. Just because your parents both have blue eyes doesn't mean 100% you would be born with blue eyes. Your brown eyes came from somewhere, it's just that it wasn't the dominant gene in your parents. Your parents still carry the gene for brown eyes, they just personally didn't exhibit it, but they passed that gene for brown eyes along to you and you did.
 
G

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JayB said:
its retarted. there isnt a person on this earth who does not have SOME distant relative who was bald.

No, it is not.

When you go to a doctor, physician, to a dermatologist or just to get a hair tranplant, they ask you:

Do your mother, father, brothers, sisters, any of your granpa or any of your granma have or had male pattern baldness????

Go figure..
 
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