male pattern baldness treatment should be much easier shouldn't it?

[Hoppi]

lol whhhhhhhyyyyyyyy? xD





... it's because finasteride is potentially more harmful, topicals are on the whole safer, can be very effective and can be used by younger people

 

[GeminiX]

lol whhhhhhhyyyyyyyy? xD

... it's because finasteride is potentially more harmful, topicals are on the whole safer, can be very effective and can be used by younger people

Alternative "treatments" are only safer because they don't actually do anything, it's all bullshit and you know it. Show me the before and after photos from someone who has recovered even a single hair by using your methods.

This forum has numerous posters singing the praises of various random made-up treatments, funny how they never want to give any proof and show us clear before / after photos. And please don't insult anyone by sticking to the usual line of "I don't do photos and proof, I don't care what you guys think"; if that was true you would not be making post after post after post.

You complain that male pattern baldness should be easier to treat, while failing to realise that you are actually one of the reasons it's harder than it should be. You mislead people and spread myths and the belief that actual medicine is bad.

You have absolutely zero regard for the harm you do to people and only care about your own ego and pursuit of your agenda.

 

[kthxbi]

^ i think she said it in a way more intelligent way than i could ever manage.

 

[GeminiX]

^ i think she said it in a way more intelligent way than i could ever manage.

Aww thx, though the original version of my response was a quite nasty rant which I editied a lot after I calmed down

I despise snake-oil and other nonsense such nonsense with a passion. However, I dislike the peddlers even more. Those who try to discourage vulnerable people to join their tree-hugging hippy camp and waste some of their most precious years chasing rainbows are callous and immensely arrogant.

 

[Hoppi]

I was referring to things like RU58841 and Eucapil (and to a lesser extent spironolactone, Flutamide, etc) which are fairly recognized treatments at least in principle. They're not snake oils, are they?

 

[TheGrayMan2001]

finasteride is best for almost everyone, so it should automatically be the recommended product.

If there are sides, then you start recommending alternatives.

 

[Hoppi]

Regardless of whether or not I agree, is that any reason not to encourage progress & improvement, and to increase options?

 

[GeminiX]

Regardless of whether or not I agree, is that any reason not to encourage progress & improvement, and to increase options?

Of course not, but encouraging people to avoid proven treatments and branding them as harmful (like so many alternative treatment pedders do) is downright villany.

We seem to have the same conversation over and over; if you want to experiemt, fill your boots and go nuts. Just don't try to convince people that you've found a miracle cure / proven drug xyz is harmful / make up random crap about finasteride etc.

You won't even produce a single shred of evidence you even suffer from hairloss, can't you see how that makes you look? You're all over this forum and no doubt countless others spreading your gospel like some demented religious evangelist.

 

[Hoppi]

The problem I have with finasteride is it seems to have the potential to do a fair bit of harm (as we have seen many times). I just wouldn't trust it particularly in the body of someone under the age of around 20/21. But that's just me, I dunno, it's a very debatable thing (and please do not debate whether it's debatable because we could be going round in circles forever ¬_¬ )

The point I was trying to make before all this started is that, phrased in a more mutually agreeable way, it might be useful to possess a topical antiandrogen powerful enough to single handedly stop male pattern baldness that was commercially available and affordable. That's all.

 

[TheGrayMan2001]

The problem I have with finasteride is it seems to have the potential to do a fair bit of harm (as we have seen many times). I just wouldn't trust it particularly in the body of someone under the age of around 20/21. But that's just me, I dunno, it's a very debatable thing (and please do not debate whether it's debatable because we could be going round in circles forever ¬_¬ )

The point I was trying to make before all this started is that, phrased in a more mutually agreeable way, it might be useful to possess a topical antiandrogen powerful enough to single handedly stop male pattern baldness that was commercially available and affordable. That's all.

There's only a few people on this board who have had "harm" done via propecia and half of them might have just been messed up in the head. They're usually half scizophrenic anyway.

 

[kthxbi]

The problem I have with finasteride is it seems to have the potential to do a fair bit of harm (as we have seen many times). I just wouldn't trust it particularly in the body of someone under the age of around 20/21. But that's just me, I dunno, it's a very debatable thing (and please do not debate whether it's debatable because we could be going round in circles forever ¬_¬ )

The point I was trying to make before all this started is that, phrased in a more mutually agreeable way, it might be useful to possess a topical antiandrogen powerful enough to single handedly stop male pattern baldness that was commercially available and affordable. That's all.

while there are occasionally casualties (which may or may not be valid / as bad as they claim to be, but thats not the point), it doesn't make sense that you recommend a load of mostly unproven or unknown treatments. the only reason we don't have a ru58841help forum or whatever is cause nothing's known about the drug.
it's better the devil you know than the devil you don't man.
specially when the devil you know isnt actually a flipping devil.

 

[kthxbi]

Are you serious? Here is a thread when I went off on someone for trying to intimidate finasteride. users: viewtopic.php?f=46&t=61965
You are doing the same thing by calling people "scizophrenic" and "messed up in the head" if they experience sides. There are a ton of people on the "Dealing with Sides" Topic that will tell you to go to H*ll. Just because it is currently working for you does not mean it will not be harmful to others. I don't really have a dog in this fight but I hate bullies and that is what you are being!! finasteride. verywell may be great for some (possibly good for most) but that gives you no right to treat those that have had sides this way!

thread's been edited to hell bro, doesn't seem to make any sense. tho i only read the first bit so maybe only the beginning is crazy talk.

 

[GeminiX]

@idontwanttobebalding; please don't understand the point I'm trying to get across.

I *love* the idea of experimenting with new ideas, I do it myself and take dozens of photos and video to show the results to anyone who is interested. It's by asking questions that we learn.

*but*

There is a huge difference between experimenting on yourself and actively trying to discourage people away from proven methods and instead encourage them to become part of your experiment or what ever it is these people are doing.

It seems like I'm dumping on Hoppi a lot, but just dig a little deeper into his constant walls of posting. He gives the impression of being nice and a good guy and claims he's just doing this for himself and it's just his opinion, yet then he throws in these little digs and how finasteride is dangerous and has given him side effects, or how he has a new miracle cure. All while he jumps into peoples threads or just argues vague points to keep his post count growing and has still yet to give a single shred of proof he even has hair loss.

I really cannot decide if he's really that naive about the potential harm he's doing, or if there is something far more cunning and sinister going on; my gut tells me it's just belligerent attention seeking, but he goes on longer than the damn Duracell bunny; even the most die-hard of trolls usually get bored long before now.

Other than that he seems like a nice guy, maybe he's Satan or something and my atheist anti herbalist views are misguided

 

[GeminiX]

Are you saying if there is no "God" there is no "Hoppi"?

Hmm, I might have been; even though I only wrote that post an hour ago, I'm really not sure what I meant

I blame the lack of having anything to eat today while spending most of the day trying to buy tickets for the Take That concert.

 

[Hoppi]

^_^

 

[kthxbi]

Sure, 10-4, I got ya! Basically it is about reading further into something..If I was GeminiX maby you would say I was saying it more intelligently...all I'm saying is by beating up on those who have had bad experiences with finasteride. does not make finasteride. the only choice!!!! It may be the most proven! But not the best choice for everyone! And even if Hoppi is searching for a remedy (not just for himself...but others mostly) we need someone to bring out the "fringe" treatments . That is where the progress is made!!

i getcha. im not looking to make any digs at anyone in particular, ive just noticed that hoppi seems to only post stuff that scares people off the proven treatments. i do believe that they have their downsides, which need to be heard about, but that's all i ever hear from hoppi. that and a lot of promotion of unproven and potentially very dangerous treatments.

i figure we're all on the same side here, i just don't get the completely one sided arguments and anti-promotion (probably not a word) of proven treatments that always seem to come outta these threads

 

[Hoppi]

Thing is I mean, opinions about finasteride or whatever are not really the point of this thread. The point of this thread is to discuss constructively the idea of a commercially-available topical antiandrogen with enough power to actually stop male pattern baldness single-handedly (people at least claim that RU can do this so it seems possible). At the very least this would be useful for those who can't take finasteride, but also those who are uneasy about finasteride.

It just seems like a logical and constructive step, and would probably make life a bit easier for all of us if it existed (such treatments can also usually be combined with finasteride for an even stronger effect anyway!).

It's ok if people don't agree but it surprises me that people can't see how such a product might be useful/beneficial, at least for some.

 

[Artas]

Biggest problem in my hairloss was, starting 2 years to late...

I would have still had amazing hair if I started using propecia 2 years ago.



No one ever told me about this stuff and the internet is completely flooded with garbage so I only did massive research when I was at a very bad stage, now back a bit though...but really...things should have happened much earlier.

I'm the complete opposite at the moment. I am wishing I had started Propecia a little later, right now it looks like I am thinning all over. All of this happened after taking finasteride. Should I carry on taking it hoping this is just a shed? Or should I quit and let nature take its course while finding an alternative treatment?

Paranoia is probably what caused my hair to thin.

 

[kthxbi]

Thing is I mean, opinions about finasteride or whatever are not really the point of this thread. The point of this thread is to discuss constructively the idea of a commercially-available topical antiandrogen with enough power to actually stop male pattern baldness single-handedly (people at least claim that RU can do this so it seems possible). At the very least this would be useful for those who can't take finasteride, but also those who are uneasy about finasteride.

It just seems like a logical and constructive step, and would probably make life a bit easier for all of us if it existed (such treatments can also usually be combined with finasteride for an even stronger effect anyway!).

It's ok if people don't agree but it surprises me that people can't see how such a product might be useful/beneficial, at least for some.

the problem was that in your first post you chose to ignore the obvious suggestion of finasteride as being the best treatment and came up with two unproven ones instead. im sure people do claim that RU can completely cure hairloss, but people also claim that not wanking can cure hairloss. people also claim that paul mccartney's been dead since '66.

 

[Hoppi]

Surely we also have to work on what we understand to be accepted principles though. I mean, when a company makes a new drug or treatment, they don't sit there and say "well, finasteride is the only one proven to work, let's just use that...", they look at the situation logically and analyze what approaches should bring success (and then of course trial drugs that seem to work).

If male pattern baldness is caused by androgens hitting follicular androgen receptors, then we should treat it as such. Any treatment that blocks or otherwise disables androgen receptors should, in theory and with good scientific grounding, halt male pattern baldness to the extent to which the treatment is effective at doing this.

If a treatment absorbed well and blocked every single AR in the scalp region (for arguments sake) and then stayed there for say 24 hours, we would expect that a once daily application would stop male pattern baldness completely dead, because no androgens could reach the receptors to kill them.

If we don't work on accepted premises like this, then what grounds do we have to actually make progress?