male pattern baldness/maturing hair line: advice please (photos incuded)

Montgomery Flange

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Hi guys, another Newbie here.

I'm 29 and have always been fortunate to have a thick head of hair. My hairline, however, is what I'm worried about.

I can't remember precisely when I originally noticed it had receded (25/26 maybe), but I don't think it has noticeably receded further since then, if at all. I remember blaming hair dye/peroxide at first, which I used many times in my mid 20s, and once left on for so long it burnt my scalp but I doubt that could be the cause of permanent damage. My question, therefore, is: do I have male pattern baldness or simply a maturing hair line and what could/should I do about it? My forehead/hairline is naturally quite high btw.

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diffuse propecia

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Any older pics that we can use for a comparison? , it looks like male pattern baldness to me but it could be a mature hairline if it has not moved in years. If it is male pattern baldness then the big 3 are your best choice, big 3 = Finasteride, Nizoral and minoxidil (optional). Minoxidil is a regrowth agent ( if you are lucky the finasteride may also stimulate growth ) and is up to you if you want to use it to try and regrow any lost hair or just try and maintain with the other two which fight the male pattern baldness process.
 

Montgomery Flange

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cherribomb-6087562.jpg


The best I can do, was taken 6 years ago

How do you differentiate between male pattern baldness and maturing hair line? What makes you say I've got male pattern baldness?
 

diffuse propecia

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It is actually miniaturization mapping and it is a process by which a qualified physician examines your scalp/crown/hairline for a certain amount of miniturization (classic sign of male pattern baldness) in order to determine if your hairloss ( if you even are loosing hair) is due to male pattern baldness or not.

for more information you should read:-

http://www.baldingblog.com/2006/08/31/m ... s-the-eye/
 

Montgomery Flange

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Cheers for the advice. I'm not sure I can see a physician, especially as my hair isn't exactly falling out.

Is there any other way I can get a diagnosis? You said it looked like male pattern baldness initially, what made you change your mind? Would it be advised to take the medication you suggested without a professional diagnosis?
 

Fundi

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Looks ok for a 29 year old to me.

Your best bet I think would do something very minor, cheap and risk free in terms of treatment - Use nizoral/Revita shampoo (You could also look at spironolactone cream).

And take pics in say 6 months time to compare (Even this method is flawed slightly as I've seen people's temples receed year by year until their mid 30s and then stay that way until old age).
 

diffuse propecia

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It was the temples and the miniaturized hair upfront (not sure) that got me leaning toward male pattern baldness but now that I realize that you are 29 and looking at the 6+ year old pic I think I might have been wrong. You do not have to have hair falling out in order to visit a doctor, just find one that offers a mapping and have them do it for you, If its male pattern baldness then there should be a significant amount of miniturization ( seen through a very powerful digital magnifier ), regarding the meds you could always start on your own like the majority of users here do and have done but do you really want to spend money or even more importantly use meds you may not need.
 

Montgomery Flange

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I'd definitely be prepared to spend money on meds if I thought they could help me, my hair is a huge part of me; I'm not one of these guys who could shave it all off and not think anymore about it. My only concern with trying any treatments is the potential to actually cause hair loss and once started, isn't it a long term commitment (or at least till you no longer care if you go bald or not)?
 

follicle84

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I went to see a pharmacist 2 years ago to get propecia prescribed to me. I was classed a norwood 2 and told i had to either be losing hair from the crown, thinning or a norwood 3 to get the drug prescribed to me. This i assume is because anything less than a norwood 3 as far as hairlines are concerned isnt male pattern baldness. Your hair looks less than a norwood 3, probably norwood 2-2.5 at best. Bottom line is your isnt advanced enough to determine whether you have male pattern baldness just yet. You could very well just have a mature hairline.
 

Montgomery Flange

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follicle84 said:
I went to see a pharmacist 2 years ago to get propecia prescribed to me. I was classed a norwood 2 and told i had to either be losing hair from the crown, thinning or a norwood 3 to get the drug prescribed to me. This i assume is because anything less than a norwood 3 as far as hairlines are concerned isnt male pattern baldness. Your hair looks less than a norwood 3, probably norwood 2-2.5 at best. Bottom line is your isnt advanced enough to determine whether you have male pattern baldness just yet. You could very well just have a mature hairline.

I don't particularly want to wait till it gets worse before doing something about it.

You say the pharmacist refused to prescribe you Propecia, what did you take instead? Can I not get that without a prescription? Would starting a course of Finasteride, Nizoral and minoxidil, for example, be advised for my hair the way it is, especially as I would actually like to regain some haireline if possible?
 

ClayShaw

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sertraline said:
follicle84 said:
I went to see a pharmacist 2 years ago to get propecia prescribed to me. I was classed a norwood 2 and told i had to either be losing hair from the crown, thinning or a norwood 3 to get the drug prescribed to me. This i assume is because anything less than a norwood 3 as far as hairlines are concerned isnt male pattern baldness. Your hair looks less than a norwood 3, probably norwood 2-2.5 at best. Bottom line is your isnt advanced enough to determine whether you have male pattern baldness just yet. You could very well just have a mature hairline.

I don't particularly want to wait till it gets worse before doing something about it.

You say the pharmacist refused to prescribe you Propecia, what did you take instead (I'm in UK too btw)? Can I not get that without a prescription? Would starting a course of Finasteride, Nizoral and minoxidil, for example, be advised for my hair the way it is, especially as I would actually alike to regain some haireline if possible?

You don't need to regain any hairline... If it stays where it is, no one will look at you as bald/balding, thats for sure.
You can do your own miniaturization test. You need to spend about $100 on a microscope, and you need to have a computer...
http://www.amazon.com/Celestron-44300-H ... 31&sr=8-39
Thats a link to the microscope on amazon. Be warned, the results are somewhat difficult to interpret, and it is difficult to do the test on hair that long...
But it might answer some questions. The guy on balding blog has done a step by step on how to test, and on the balding blog forums, they've posted pictures of what miniaturization looks like. Basically, hair count and shaft thickness should be consistent throughout the scalp. If its not...
 

Montgomery Flange

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Does the fact I've got really thick hair suggest it's not actually male pattern baldness or does that not matter when judging male pattern baldness?

Even on my vertex/crown, there's no noticeable thinning; it feels as thick as it always has done.

Thanks for all the advice btw, it's appreciated.
 

follicle84

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sertraline said:
I don't particularly want to wait till it gets worse before doing something about it.

You say the pharmacist refused to prescribe you Propecia, what did you take instead? Can I not get that without a prescription? Would starting a course of Finasteride, Nizoral and minoxidil, for example, be advised for my hair the way it is, especially as I would actually like to regain some haireline if possible?

Im not going to advise you on anything here due to the risks that can be imposed from using treatments and i dont want to feel responsible for things going wrong if they do. What i will tell you is what i know and leave the decision for you to make based on my experience and knowledge.

Finestride is the main active ingredient found in such products such as propecia, fincar and proscar. The difference between them is there manufacturer and dosage. Propecia contains 1mg of finestride (the ingredient that inhibits dht and stops hairloss in 80% of users). Proscar is the pretty much the same only it contains 5mg of finestride and isnt used for hairloss (its used for more serious problems such as preventing prostate enlargement). Fincar on the otherhand i think is 1mg of finestride and is supplied by different manufacturer in a different country. The bottom line is taking finestride is practically the same as taking propecia.

Most prescriptions for these products require seeing a doctor or pharmacist as they can pose serious side effects that can be harmfull to your health. In my ignorance i decided to order on line from united pharmacies for 30 tablets of propecia manufactured by MERC. I took propecia for almost five months before i decided to quit. I gained a little regrowth on my crown and a few hairs on my hairline but at the cost of gyno an fatigue. I still havent fully recovered after four weeks of quiting.

I feel i should tell you propecia isnt guaranteed to work for hairlines so i was lucky to get them few hairs. On the MERC website they only claim propecia works for the crown and vertex of the scalp. So in your case of hairloss propecia might not be beneficial for you unless your still losing hair.

Minoxidil was originally used to lower blood pressure when taken orally but has been made into a topical after discovery that it regrew hair. Minoxidil is a stimulant and has the ability to make hair grow anywhere you place it on your body (as long as there are follicles present). Minoxidil is most effective on the crown and vertex of the scalp but has been discovered to work on hairlines too. Minoxidil in the short term is very impressive providing you are a responder. You can expect to see results in about 2-4 months compared to propecia's 6-12 months. Minoxidil however doesnt stop the underlying cause of hairloss just merely overides its visible effects at best. Furthermore its unlikelly you will grow hair that has been gone for more than 5 years and i wouldnt expect micro hair to become terminal. Most users report growing peach fuzz hair from completelly bald area's so the earlier you use it the better the results will be. I have used minoxidil on my hairline and grew micro hair (0.2cm) into visible hair (1cm) after 7 weeks of usage. I had to discontinue using this due to side effects such as head aches, scalp itchness and severe dandruff. There are much more serious side effects than this but they are more commonly found when taking minoxidil orally.

Nizoral on the otherhand is a shampoo used for getting rid of dandruff and scalp infections. Its believed to be a weak dht blocker that may have some bennefits towards hairloss. Its claimed to be better used in conjunction with other hairloss products when dealing with hairloss as it's not strong enough to beat hairloss by its self. Some users claim it can get rid of the scalp flaking minoxidil induces on to the scalp. The problem with nizoral is it can fry your hair and induce shedding and itching if you use too much of it or leave it on too long (you should only use a few drops no more).

I feel i should mention temple hairloss is a real b**ch to try and regrow hair as it is more sensitive to androgens (what make you lose your hair) than anywhere else on the scalp. Even women can lose a little hair here but not as much as us men.

So what can do you about it? Well the previous treatments mentioned might give you a litte regrowth but you wont get that perfect hairline you once had. The only option for this would be to get a hair transplant or get your scalp lowered. CCS knows more about this and had good results. Again however there's even problems with getting this procedure.

1) Some of the transplanted hair dies.
2) Hair transplants can leave scars (so if it goes wrong you wont be able to shave your head).
3) It might look odd the way the hair is placed. You will have to find a very skilled surgeon to do this properly.
4) If you continue to lose your hair it will leave you a hairline, hair on your back an sides and a masive bald patch making it look unusual.
5) If this happens you wont have enough donor hair from the back and sides to fix the problem.
6) Its very expensive.

What else can you do?

There's a guy called Tom Haggerty at hairlossreversible.com who claims he got regrowth by massaging his scalp twice a day. Go on his website for more information. I remain skeptical but have tried it. It made my scalp feel refreshed but i didnt try it long enough to get regrowth. It apparently takes 8months.

What im doing?

Im looking into copper petides, sod's (supposivelly like minoxidil but without the side effects) and procyanides.

What do i expect?

Hopefully to maintain what i have. Regrowth would be a bonus. No side effects.

If that fails?

Wait for hair multiplication or follicle clonning.


The choice is yours mate. You may want to look into these a bit more. I just gave you a short summary of what options you have available to you in getting your hairline back. If i find anything else i will let you know.
 

follicle84

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sertraline said:
Does the fact I've got really thick hair suggest it's not actually male pattern baldness or does that not matter when judging male pattern baldness?

Even on my vertex/crown, there's no noticeable thinning; it feels as thick as it always has done.

I would say you dont have male pattern baldness based on what im seeing and what you've told me. Usually only a very high hairline (Norwood 3+) or crown or vetex thinning determines male pattern baldness. You dont have either. Does it run in your family? That is the best way to know if your going to be bald at your stage (look at both sides of the family) without micro mapping your scalp for miniturising.
 
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