Looking Into Finasteride

rudimentary

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Hello.

Quick story, I'm 23, have mild hairloss (mainly temples), I'd say I'm a NW2. But of course, I want to stop it before it becomes a bigger problem.

I have been looking into natural alternatives and of course, no results (not knocking on natural believers, but it hasn't worked for me).

So I am ready to take the plunge and start a proven treatment (finasteride + Nizoral). No minoxidil since I only want to stop further loss.

3 quick questions.

1. What is, in your opinion, the real rate of sexual side effects while on Finasteride?

2. What are the chances of developing permanent sexual side effects? (Say, out of 1,000 people).

3. If I start finasteride, and I see no big side effects within the first.. say.. 2 weeks, what are the chances of developing them later in the treatment.

Thank you.
 

TheEscapist

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1. Some people would say most get it, some would say only a few. My dermatologist says with his patients its around 40% that get some sort of sexual side effect. But he believes most are minor.

2. Not sure of any statistics on this, there are few studies (that I'm aware of) on permanent side effects. The internet and news media will make it seem like there's a vast majority of users who get permanent side effects. In many cases they're just panicky and anxiety-ridden, but in some instances I personally don't know if they're right or not. There's unfortunately not a lot of clarity on this subject.

3. Again, this is foggy. Merck and most doctors who prescribe Propecia will say that if you don't get side effects initially, then the chances of getting them in the future decrease significantly. But then on the internet, a lot of people believe otherwise, stating that they had everything from endocrine "crashes" to neurological damage.

Its a confusing subject area because both sides hold huge potential for bias. There is danger present, but no one will tell you for certain how much danger or how possible it is you'll fall prey to it. Merck wants money, PropeciaHelp wants to paint the worst picture humanly possible of the drug and its collateral damage, the FDA wants to take forever before they get around to this controversy, dermatologists mostly want to prescribe meds and call it a day.
People who get side effects want to believe its the worst drug out there, people without side effects want to believe they're in the clear for life. Everyone in between just gets caught in the crossfire.

I tried it for 3 months and didn't feel anything different other than possible drowsiness (Brain fog, they call it), which according to those who hate the drug means my neurosteroids were being harmed in a vicious battle with the medication of the antichrist. I didn't go off of it for side effects, but for fear of stunting my growth (I'm 17).
After looking into it more, I'm reconsidering taking it, because its really the only thing that will do the trick, aside from hair transplants, which are expensive and seem largely successful for the rich and famous, but not the common man.

I would suggest you try it, and if you get side effects, you quit. Don't stay on it if the sides persist though, a lot of people do because they just don't want to accept that the drug won't work for them. If you get sides in the beginning, and go off of it, I firmly believe that you won't have permanent damage. But that's just my opinion, I'm no doctor, and there will be plenty of people across the internet who will have something to say about every single facet of every single molecule that will be even so much as looked at the wrong way by the finasteride molecules.

Good luck though! Let me know how it goes if you do try!
 

TheEscapist

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1) A study as early as 1995 had it at 22% but it was finasteride 5 mg. It's much higher than Merck's 3%.

2) You need a unit of time before you even begin to answer this question. If you say a year, I'd say anywhere from 15-30 men would have permanent sides. Not much evidence for this, just going on what little data we have.

3) Who knows. Depends your your genetics. (Number of CAG repeats on the Androgen Receptor)

Please don't take the advice from a 17 year old kid. No offense to TheEscapist, but he celarly doesn't know what he's talkin about. Not blaming him, he is 17 and gets his "information" from Internet forums. Persistent finasteride sides effects have nothign to do with "anxiety" or "panicky." It's a copout for those who don't know what they're talking about. It's easier to say "it's all in your head" than explain how finasteride induced negative autoregulation, altered transcription factors of the AR and other protein-protein interactions.

Also, even Propecai clinical trial reviewers questioned the drugs safety and admitted the drugs effects weren't known. Post-marketing surveillance (Phase IV) provides much more robust data than corporate sponsored clinical trials. So to say it if a drug's side effects weren't picked up in the clinical trials it must be "all in your head" is about as scientifically inept as you can get.
Go ahead and explain how "negative autoregulation, altered transcription factors of the AR and other protein-protein interactions." lead to the results you believe they do. It will be thrilling to hear you, such an intelligent man of science who, armed with a computer and an abundance of free time, has somehow found real, tangible, study-tested proof of his claims that finasteride does and will cause "negative autoregulation, altered transcription factors of the AR and other protein-protein interactions", which WILL lead to everything you claim it will. You have no conclusive proof of anything you imbecile.
You've read studies, you've read reports, but do you have any ****ing idea what the "altered factors" you rave on and on and on about will do to the OP, to me, to anyone? You have no god damn clue what will happen inside a man's body after he takes a drug, and the fact that you think you can sum it all up by citing processes and occurrences you've read about in studies shows you give no heed to the countless, unknowable occurrences of the human body that you or I simply cannot determine or observe.

You're an ignorant fool if you think that there aren't people out there who worry themselves into symptoms comparable to those claimed by many people with "PFS". Never have I ever denied the possibility, nor professed to declare as fact any prediction about the likelihood or existence of persistent side effects. Thats because I KNOW THEY EXIST. But just because I'm believing one truth, doesn't mean I forget the proven truth that your mind affects your body in powerful, noticeable, and physically tangible ways.

You're unwise to assume that my age limits me in some way because you think that you're my better for having read more studies or stated more opinions as fact in your time on the planet. YOU cannot tell this man whether or not his body will react negatively or positively to the drug, so quit trying to imbue in him or anyone else the sense that you can.

Who ever takes my advice can do so as they damn well please. But do not for a second insult my intelligence or my capacity to see truth where it exists.
 

Quantum Cat

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The Escapist summed up the situation in more sense than 'Hair to Learn' has made in his entire life.
 

Wuffer

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Listen to The Escapist. As a 17 year old, he quite eloquently and factually answered your questions (much better than I could have as a 30-year old). Based on posting history, Hair to Learn appears to harbor a strong bias against finasteride, so take this into account when reading his responses.

Just to add a note about estimated statistics; last year the FDA did a safety review for finasteride to try and identify the number of people affected by persistent symptoms. For Propecia, they only found 59 reports of sexual dysfunction lasting more than 3 months after discontinuing the medication. Of course this doesn't encompass every single case, as many people would not report this to the FDA, but when you factor in the millions of prescriptions issued for this drug in the last decade, 59 reported cases is extremely limited. It's very difficult to estimate how many people are affected since very little is known about the condition, but it's clearly extremely rare. Suffice it to say, there are

Hair to learn mentioned a single study that showed 22%, but I don't believe this one was placebo controlled IIRC. There was a recent study from Japan involving over 3000 men which showed less than 1% side effect rates. Almost every single properly placebo controlled study shows side effect rates in the 2-5% range. When you see higher figures, it was either not placebo controlled or involved a very small number of participants. Again, I suspect Hair to Learn picked that study because his interest is painting as dangerous a picture as possible due to his bias, possibly personal experience.

Suffice it to say, I can name a dozen things off the top of my head that the average person consumes or exposes their bodies to that are more likely to harm and/or kill you than finasteride. It's all a risk/reward balance. Some people aren't willing to take any additional risk, which is fine. Others recognize the small risk and potential benefit, and decide to go for it. That's fine too.
 

rudimentary

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Thank you all for your input.

Wow very strong opinions out there about this.

I have decided to give it a go starting next week. I am going to be very cautious of side effects, and if I get any, I will stop taking it right away to avoid permanent lingins.

Now I need to figure out how much is effective yet economic. I was reading about the half dose being just as effective.. Will look into that.

Thank you all.
 

Quantum Cat

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Thank you all for your input.

Wow very strong opinions out there about this.

I have decided to give it a go starting next week. I am going to be very cautious of side effects, and if I get any, I will stop taking it right away to avoid permanent lingins.

Now I need to figure out how much is effective yet economic. I was reading about the half dose being just as effective.. Will look into that.

Thank you all.

that may not be a good strategy because sides are common when you first start on finasteride, doesn't mean they will be permanent. As you can see the permanent sides issue is controversial, but you'd be wise to pay attention to official sources not anonymous people on the internet with agendas.


it would be nice to have a completely impartial study on Finasteride done - one not initiated by either drug companies like Merck looking to make a profit, nor by heavily-biased anti-Propecia activists like the discredited Dr. Earwig study that the Propeciahelpers keep referencing.
 

Cob984

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btw, has anyone like got sides from finasteride? stuck it out for a few weeks and have them disappear? curious
 

Fanjeera

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If you're going to be ready and waiting for them, they'll come 100%. I suggest you don't take the drug.
 

talmoode

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Quantum Cat

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If you're going to be ready and waiting for them, they'll come 100%. I suggest you don't take the drug.

so you agree with the power of the nocebo effect/the mind?

I wouldn't say don't take finasteride altogether - just adopt a positive attitude
 

WarLord

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Hello.

Quick story, I'm 23, have mild hairloss (mainly temples), I'd say I'm a NW2. But of course, I want to stop it before it becomes a bigger problem.

I have been looking into natural alternatives and of course, no results (not knocking on natural believers, but it hasn't worked for me).

So I am ready to take the plunge and start a proven treatment (finasteride + Nizoral). No minoxidil since I only want to stop further loss.

3 quick questions.

1. What is, in your opinion, the real rate of sexual side effects while on Finasteride?

2. What are the chances of developing permanent sexual side effects? (Say, out of 1,000 people).

3. If I start finasteride, and I see no big side effects within the first.. say.. 2 weeks, what are the chances of developing them later in the treatment.

Thank you.

The only serious side effect with finasteride that I was afraid of is the loss of hair. And it exactly happened (see my current story). Your "problems" are ridiculous in contrast with this. In fact, finasteride is a harmless drug. You won't feel any change (and those, who say that they do, are the usual hypochondriacs from propeciahelp.com). There may be exceptions, like with every drug, but the fact that only ca. 2-3% users report problems you mention, makes your post virtually humorous.
 

Fanjeera

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so you agree with the power of the nocebo effect/the mind?

I wouldn't say don't take finasteride altogether - just adopt a positive attitude
Absolutely. But I'm not 100% sure that's the case with finasteride. If I see a study saying there's no 5ar2 in the human corpus cavernosum, I will be a lot happier. I think I will have to do it on my own.
 
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