Liver Damage from Finasteride, topical alternatives?

[ghostdog]

hi,

i have been taking finasteride/poscar for about 11 months now. am unsure if there have been any major effects on my hair loss but it seems the medication may have damaged my liver. i developed a bad case of jaundice with very high liver function tests last month and had to stay in hospital for 2 weeks. i am now on a course of steroids to help the liver recover. the specialist thinks that i may have auto immune hepatitis - a chronic liver disease where the liver attacks itself through elevateed immune response. he thinks that the proscar may be responsible for the severe hepatitis, given that DHT is an important androgen in the liver. i have been googling around trying to learn more but cant find too much, however one site says that proscar interferes with the liver's urea (arginine - orthinine - citrulline) cycle and the
Arginine-NO (Nitric Oxide) - cGMP conversion in the nervous endings of the arteries.

i have been off proscar for a month now and it doesnt look likely that ill be able to take it orally again. i dont want to just resign myself to eventual baldness, however, and wonder what options you guys would recommend.

at the moment i am just using nizoral shampoo. i am aware of minoxidil and used this for a few days in the past but it makes your hair look so appaling that i realy would prefer another option. from these boards Proxiphen looks like a better prospect than minoxidil given that it can be used only once a day (at night). i have heard about minoxidils that dont look awful but dont know much else about em.

are there any topical means of applying finasteride to the scalp, so stopping local dht production while mainitiaing dht levels elsewhere in the body? (dht seems to have a purpose and is not just the evil balding agent some people think it is). I hear that an antiandrogen (is proxiphen the best?) is also necessary to remove non-scap-based-dht activity in the hair.

any help would be appreciated. my problem is a receding hairline at the moment, the crown is fine.

 

[mvpsoft]

There are a few things you can use. First, Proxiphen is a combination product that includes minoxidil for regrowth and other topicals that inhibit DHT formation in the scalp. You apply it once a day, so you could apply it in the evening and wash it off in the morning.

Second, You also should use copper peptides, either Folligen or Tricomin, since they soothe inflammation in the scalp and are a regrowth agent. They dry in about 10 minutes with no residue, so they are easy to use in the morning.

Third, another option is MGF+, another once-a-day product that can be applied in the evening and washed off in the morning. Both Proxiphen and MGF+ are thicker than minoxidil and are easy to apply to a hairline. Both contain minoxidil plus other DHT inhibiting and regrowth agents.

Fourth, there is also the Lasercomb. I am using it and have had regrowth, but I'm also using 5% minoxidil, finasteride, Nizoral and Folligen, so I can't attribute my regrowth to the Lasercomb, because I'm not using it by itself. Still, attacking the problems from multiple pathways seems to be the most effective approach. At $650 the Lasercomb is pricey, but it's a one-time cost, not ongoing. It is FDA approved for thickening hair, and it is medically approved in Canada for regrowth. There are studies indicating it does promote regrowth in higher percentages of people than either minoxidil or finasteride.

I recommend that you use one of the copper peptide products on the entire top part of your scalp (hairline, vertex, crown), and consider adding either Proxiphen or MGF+ for use on your hairline, and further, consider using the Lasercomb. These are all solid alternatives -- you don't need to take a systemic DHT-inhibiting agent to fight hair loss.

Here are the links:

http://www.drproctor.com/products.htm

http://www.lipoxidil.com/site/mgf.php

http://www.folligen.com/

http://www.hairmax.com/

 

[mikey21]

I am quite concerned with the claim that finasteride does damage to your liver. Can anyone else comment on this? I feel that this should be an important issue given that finasteride is to be taken daily for years. Thanks

 

[Bismarck]

I am quite concerned with the claim that finasteride does damage to your liver. Can anyone else comment on this? I feel that this should be an important issue given that finasteride is to be taken daily for years. Thanks

It hasn't been proven that Finasteride damages the liver in contrast to many other things in your diet... :wink:

bis

 

[Mindfull]

I am quite concerned with the claim that finasteride does damage to your liver. Can anyone else comment on this? I feel that this should be an important issue given that finasteride is to be taken daily for years. Thanks

It hasn't been proven that Finasteride damages the liver in contrast to many other things in your diet... :wink:

bis

" (...) Testosterone is converted to DHT by the enzyme 5α-reductase, which exists as 2 isoforms, type 1 and type 2. The type 2 isoenzyme is primarily active in the reproductive tissues, while the type 1 isoenzyme is also responsible for testosterone conversion in the skin and liver."
(http://us.gsk.com/products/assets/us_avodart.pdf)

As far as I know only dutasteride inhibits both type 1 and 2 5ARenzymes. finasteride only inhibits type 2, which is not present in the liver?

 

[Bismarck]

I am quite concerned with the claim that finasteride does damage to your liver. Can anyone else comment on this? I feel that this should be an important issue given that finasteride is to be taken daily for years. Thanks

It hasn't been proven that Finasteride damages the liver in contrast to many other things in your diet... :wink:

bis

" (...) Testosterone is converted to DHT by the enzyme 5α-reductase, which exists as 2 isoforms, type 1 and type 2. The type 2 isoenzyme is primarily active in the reproductive tissues, while the type 1 isoenzyme is also responsible for testosterone conversion in the skin and liver."
(http://us.gsk.com/products/assets/us_avodart.pdf)

As far as I know only dutasteride inhibits both type 1 and 2 5ARenzymes. finasteride only inhibits type 2, which is not present in the liver?

Finasteride is ******** (metabolized ?, don't know the english word) in the liver. It is reduced there by a cytochrome. I've jsut postet sth about it in the general section. Note that the fact that it is reduced in the liver does not necessarily imply it does some kind of liver damage.

bis

 

[Mindfull]

There are a few things you can use. First, Proxiphen is a combination product that includes minoxidil for regrowth and other topicals that inhibit DHT formation in the scalp. You apply it once a day, so you could apply it in the evening and wash it off in the morning.

Second, You also should use copper peptides, either Folligen or Tricomin, since they soothe inflammation in the scalp and are a regrowth agent. They dry in about 10 minutes with no residue, so they are easy to use in the morning.

Third, another option is MGF+, another once-a-day product that can be applied in the evening and washed off in the morning. Both Proxiphen and MGF+ are thicker than minoxidil and are easy to apply to a hairline. Both contain minoxidil plus other DHT inhibiting and regrowth agents.

Fourth, there is also the Lasercomb. I am using it and have had regrowth, but I'm also using 5% minoxidil, finasteride, Nizoral and Folligen, so I can't attribute my regrowth to the Lasercomb, because I'm not using it by itself. Still, attacking the problems from multiple pathways seems to be the most effective approach. At $650 the Lasercomb is pricey, but it's a one-time cost, not ongoing. It is FDA approved for thickening hair, and it is medically approved in Canada for regrowth. There are studies indicating it does promote regrowth in higher percentages of people than either minoxidil or finasteride.

I recommend that you use one of the copper peptide products on the entire top part of your scalp (hairline, vertex, crown), and consider adding either Proxiphen or MGF+ for use on your hairline, and further, consider using the Lasercomb. These are all solid alternatives -- you don't need to take a systemic DHT-inhibiting agent to fight hair loss.

Here are the links:

http://www.drproctor.com/products.htm

http://www.lipoxidil.com/site/mgf.php

http://www.folligen.com/

http://www.hairmax.com/

Could you please tell me why you personally prefer Proxiphen to Revivogen. Ive been comtemplating to use one of these, but feel unsure about efficiency. What do you recommend?

 

[mvpsoft]

Could you please tell me why you personally prefer Proxiphen to Revivogen. Ive been comtemplating to use one of these, but feel unsure about efficiency. What do you recommend?

Proxiphen contains minoxidil, Revivogen doesn't. Proxiphen also contains spironolactone, which is proven to be an anti-androgen. I have used Revivogen, and it is greasy. Also, the makers claim that you can't use it at the same time as any other topical, and it needs to stay on your head for at least three hours, which limits its use with both minoxidil and copper peptides, both of which I believe are more proven than Revivogen. Proxiphen contains the three things I want -- minoxidil, anti-androgens and copper peptides. Revivogen at best contains only anti-androgens. Therefore I think it's an inferior product, and it is difficult to use other topicals at the same time.

 

[Mindfull]

Could you please tell me why you personally prefer Proxiphen to Revivogen. Ive been comtemplating to use one of these, but feel unsure about efficiency. What do you recommend?

Proxiphen contains minoxidil, Revivogen doesn't. Proxiphen also contains spironolactone, which is proven to be an anti-androgen. I have used Revivogen, and it is greasy. Also, the makers claim that you can't use it at the same time as any other topical, and it needs to stay on your head for at least three hours, which limits its use with both minoxidil and copper peptides, both of which I believe are more proven than Revivogen. Proxiphen contains the three things I want -- minoxidil, anti-androgens and copper peptides. Revivogen at best contains only anti-androgens. Therefore I think it's an inferior product, and it is difficult to use other topicals at the same time.

Thanks mvpsoft. Now, as Im trying to get my regime together I find the following products to supplement each other:

1) finasteride/dutasteride +
2) Proxiphen

From what you describe it appears to me that the combination of finasteride and Proxiphen really covers all of the proven treatments. Thus adding Minoxidil and Tricomin would be overkill since these agents are already included in Proxiphen (?)

Im looking for the most simple solution such that I dont have to think about applying too many topicals.

Also, could you perhaps comment on Xandrox 12.5 % lotion. Is it superior to minoxil, and where would it fit in the above regime? Im pretty bald, and cut my hair short, so it would be easy to apply a lotion.

Thanks so much

 

[mvpsoft]

Xandrox is mostly very strong minoxidil, IMO. If you're using Proxiphen, you may not need it. OTOH, adding a stronger dose of minoxidil to problem areas such as the hairline isn't a bad idea.

I'm not sure that there is enough copper peptides in Proxiphen. I would use Folligen or Tricomin in addition to Proxiphen, if for no other reason than that you want to use CUs twice daily, it seems to me.

A regimen of copper peptides and Xandrox in the morning, Proxiphen in the evening, finasteride daily, and Nizoral three times a week would cover all the bases.

 

[Mindfull]

Xandrox is mostly very strong minoxidil, IMO. If you're using Proxiphen, you may not need it. OTOH, adding a stronger dose of minoxidil to problem areas such as the hairline isn't a bad idea.

I'm not sure that there is enough copper peptides in Proxiphen. I would use Folligen or Tricomin in addition to Proxiphen, if for no other reason than that you want to use CUs twice daily, it seems to me.

A regimen of copper peptides and Xandrox in the morning, Proxiphen in the evening, finasteride daily, and Nizoral three times a week would cover all the bases.

Thanks a lot. Ill go with your advice. Btw, how much Minoxidil is in Proxiphen? And how does Proxiphen feel on your scalp - does is dry quickly, any discomfort, smell etc?

And would you happen to know where to get the best offer on Proxiphen and copper petides, respectively?

Thanks

 

[ghostdog]

There are a few things you can use. First, Proxiphen is a combination product that includes minoxidil for regrowth and other topicals that inhibit DHT formation in the scalp. You apply it once a day, so you could apply it in the evening and wash it off in the morning.

Second, You also should use copper peptides, either Folligen or Tricomin, since they soothe inflammation in the scalp and are a regrowth agent. They dry in about 10 minutes with no residue, so they are easy to use in the morning.

Third, another option is MGF+, another once-a-day product that can be applied in the evening and washed off in the morning. Both Proxiphen and MGF+ are thicker than minoxidil and are easy to apply to a hairline. Both contain minoxidil plus other DHT inhibiting and regrowth agents.

Fourth, there is also the Lasercomb. I am using it and have had regrowth, but I'm also using 5% minoxidil, finasteride, Nizoral and Folligen, so I can't attribute my regrowth to the Lasercomb, because I'm not using it by itself. Still, attacking the problems from multiple pathways seems to be the most effective approach. At $650 the Lasercomb is pricey, but it's a one-time cost, not ongoing. It is FDA approved for thickening hair, and it is medically approved in Canada for regrowth. There are studies indicating it does promote regrowth in higher percentages of people than either minoxidil or finasteride.

I recommend that you use one of the copper peptide products on the entire top part of your scalp (hairline, vertex, crown), and consider adding either Proxiphen or MGF+ for use on your hairline, and further, consider using the Lasercomb. These are all solid alternatives -- you don't need to take a systemic DHT-inhibiting agent to fight hair loss.

Here are the links:

http://www.drproctor.com/products.htm

http://www.lipoxidil.com/site/mgf.php

http://www.folligen.com/

http://www.hairmax.com/

thanks for this mvpsoft.

what is your opinion on lipoxidil's MGF? is this a better option than proxiphen? will its topical dutasteride really have an effect? its very expensive but im willing to give it a go as long as the company is not a scam.

as for these copper peptides, is there any difference between those two brands, i think i remember reading that one of them stains your hair green!

regarding the lasercomb, do you have any references for the canadian trials? The company website is not very encouraging, with the scientific evidence" bit just saying that light is good for your hair!

becase of my liver disease I have been put on a course of steroids (20mg prednisolone a day). Note these are different from anabolic steroids but I hear they can exacerbate hair loss. I will probably be on these drugs for at least 6 months, maybe a year. will the suggested regime combat their effects in my hair?

 

[mvpsoft]

what is your opinion on lipoxidil's MGF? is this a better option than proxiphen? will its topical dutasteride really have an effect? its very expensive but im willing to give it a go as long as the company is not a scam.

It is similar to Proxiphen in that it is a combo of minoxidil plus anti-androgens. As far as whether dutasteride is effective in a topical, no one knows. As far as I know there have been no animal or human studies done on this. I think MGF+ is probably a good approach, but I don't know if it's better than Proxiphen. I do like the fact that it doesn't contain alcohol.

as for these copper peptides, is there any difference between those two brands, i think i remember reading that one of them stains your hair green!

Both are based on the work of Loren Pickart. Tricomin contains a much less concentrated cu solution and it is more expensive. Folligen does stain for some people, but it hasn't for me. I used Tricomin for a few months before switching to Folligen. Given the price difference, I would try Folligen first. If it stains, dilute it with water.

regarding the lasercomb, do you have any references for the canadian trials? The company website is not very encouraging, with the scientific evidence" bit just saying that light is good for your hair!

I don't have any references handy, but you can probably get more info with a google search. At the very least it has been proven to thicken hair, and that's part of the battle we face.

becase of my liver disease I have been put on a course of steroids (20mg prednisolone a day). Note these are different from anabolic steroids but I hear they can exacerbate hair loss. I will probably be on these drugs for at least 6 months, maybe a year. will the suggested regime combat their effects in my hair?

I can't answer that, but it seems to me that you probably want to be fairly aggressive in combatting hair loss, since you have both genetics and environment working against you.

 

[Chipper]

to Ghostdog

I was on avodart for 16 months. I have gotten wrinkles on my face,extremely dry skin and an area where the skin is sunken in on my face and notice another area right by it thats starting to sink in, also a place where the skin is sagging, and scabs dont want to heal. Notice all of this since being on avodart. Im only 22 and way to young to be experiencing wrinkles. You think i may have the same problem as you?

 

[ghostdog]

ok thanks for all this

ive decided to go with folligen and proxipen.

What is the best type of folligen to get? My hair is quite long in places so I want to get through to the scalp without staining the hair. Also, iis the folligen shampoo worth it as an extra?

I think I will also go for the NANO shampoo to use with nizoral.

Having to go through the prescription evidence thing for Dr Proctor seems a bit of a pain though and I may just go for the MGF+ as, although the price is more, it (50ml) should last a while, particularly if I am just using it on my hairline. Plus theres also the longshot that topical dutasteride/finasteride may actually work!

With regards proxipen/MGF, are the quantities of spironolactone comparable to those of a separate treatment? From what i can see the only thing that lipoxidil does not contain that proxiphen does is copper peptides but I guess the folligen should cover this (although I can only imagine using folligen once a day in the evening as I dont want my hair to look crap all day). MGF does have a bit less minoxidil (4.5% vs 5.5% though).

Here's just hoping lipoxidil arent just scam artists, Dr Proctor does seem more of a legit operation.

Chipper, my problems are liver based, I dont know about the wrinkles. I can certainly say that finasteride destroyed my libido though!