Israeli Officer Proud Of Killing A Cowering 13 Year Old Girl

[mulder]

Israeli officer: I was right to shoot 13-year-old child

An Israeli army officer who repeatedly shot a 13-year-old Palestinian girl in Gaza dismissed a warning from another soldier that she was a child by saying he would have killed her even if she was three years old.

The officer, identified by the army only as Captain R, was charged this week with illegal use of his weapon, conduct unbecoming an officer and other relatively minor infractions after emptying all 10 bullets from his gun's magazine into Iman al-Hams when she walked into a "security area" on the edge of Rafah refugee camp last month.

A tape recording of radio exchanges between soldiers involved in the incident, played on Israeli television, contradicts the army's account of the events and appears to show that the captain shot the girl in cold blood.

The official account claimed that Iman was shot as she walked towards an army post with her schoolbag because soldiers feared she was carrying a bomb.

But the tape recording of the radio conversation between soldiers at the scene reveals that, from the beginning, she was identified as a child and at no point was a bomb spoken about nor was she described as a threat. Iman was also at least 100 yards from any soldier.

Instead, the tape shows that the soldiers swiftly identified her as a "girl of about 10" who was "scared to death".

The tape also reveals that the soldiers said Iman was headed eastwards, away from the army post and back into the refugee camp, when she was shot.

At that point, Captain R took the unusual decision to leave the post in pursuit of the girl. He shot her dead and then "confirmed the kill" by emptying his magazine into her body.

The tape recording is of a three-way conversation between the army watchtower, the army post's operations room and the captain, who was a company commander.

The soldier in the watchtower radioed his colleagues after he saw Iman: "It's a little girl. She's running defensively eastward."

Operations room: "Are we talking about a girl under the age of 10?"

Watchtower: "A girl of about 10, she's behind the embankment, scared to death."

A few minutes later, Iman is shot in the leg from one of the army posts.

The watchtower: "I think that one of the positions took her out."

The company commander then moves in as Iman lies wounded and helpless.

Captain R: "I and another soldier ... are going in a little nearer, forward, to confirm the kill ... Receive a situation report. We fired and killed her ... I also confirmed the kill. Over."

Witnesses described how the captain shot Iman twice in the head, walked away, turned back and fired a stream of bullets into her body. Doctors at Rafah's hospital said she had been shot at least 17 times.

On the tape, the company commander then "clarifies" why he killed Iman: "This is commander. Anything that's mobile, that moves in the zone, even if it's a three-year-old, needs to be killed. Over."

The army's original account of the killing said that the soldiers only identified Iman as a child after she was first shot. But the tape shows that they were aware just how young the small, slight girl was before any shots were fired.

The case came to light after soldiers under the command of Captain R went to an Israeli newspaper to accuse the army of covering up the circumstances of the killing.

A subsequent investigation by the officer responsible for the Gaza strip, Major General Dan Harel, concluded that the captain had "not acted unethically".

However, the military police launched an investigation, which resulted in charges against the unit commander.

Iman's parents have accused the army of whitewashing the affair by filing minor charges against Captain R. They want him prosecuted for murder.

Record of a shooting

Watchtower
'It's a little girl. She's running defensively eastward'
Operations room
'Are we talking about a girl under the age of 10?'
Watchtower
'A girl of about 10, she's behind the embankment, scared to death'
Captain R (after killing the girl)
'Anything moving in the zone, even a three-year-old, needs to be killed'

 

[ali777]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle ... 809371.stm

 

[CCS]

I'm sure the girl was forced to walk into the zone. She was scared because she knew she would be shot at. They are sending young girls into the zone with bags to test them, to see if they will shot or not. They would keep inching them closer and finally send them with bombs. Sad for the girl. If it was safe for the officers to go out of their forts and get that close to her, I don't know what they did not just take her back to their base. It only makes sense to fire if you fire from a distance. Pretty scary though if the next suicide bombers are coerced little girls who don't even want to do it.

As for the oxygen tanks, it is too bad they can't tell the difference between them and missles at that distance. With so many missles being shot at them, from further away, it is pretty tempting to blow up anything that looks like a missle while it is still on the ground. I doubt they would have put it on YouTube if they did not think they were in the right. Unfortunately the innocent victims will hold that against Isreal now.

 

[cleverusername]

There was a huge protest here in New York against Israel's actions in this whole situation. Half the people protesting were Jewish themselves, Israel is in the wrong and more people are starting to see them for the cowards they are. They've gotten away with far too much simply because it's considered un PC to speak badly against Israel and the amount of power the Jewish people hold in this country, especially New York but if they don't start changing their ways they are going to lose more and more support.

 

[The Gardener]

So, cleverusername, are you implying that a good solution to this situation is for the Israelis to just ACCEPT incoming Palestinian missiles as a simple fact of life, and that the citizens of southern Israeli cities such as Sderot and Netivot should be forced to live in bomb shelters for the rest of their lives?

Israel COMPLETELY WITHDREW from Gaza. Israel withdrew its military, and completely tore down ALL of its settlements that once used to be on Gazan soil.

Repeat... Israel COMPLETELY WITHDREW from Gaza. Israel withdrew its military, and completely tore down ALL of its settlements that once used to be on Gazan soil.

And as a result, the Gazans barrage Israel with rockets?

Where is the fairness in that?

 

[BlahBlah12]

cleverusername is obviously arab.
Noone blamed the tiger when he mauled Sigfrieds face off (or was it Roy?) after being fucked with for years by those guys. Yet, people are now blaming Israel after months of being fcked with by Hamas and having rockets sent into their cities. Its the same thing. Don't f*** with a sleeping giant unless you want it to wake up.

 

[HughJass]

The US and every other sycophantic government should probably be getting ready for another 9/11.


If images of newly shipped Americans munitions being strapped onto Israeli jets wasn't enough to cause it, then I'm sure Bush's comments were.

 

[HughJass]

cleverusername is obviously arab.

How is that obvious?

Yet, people are now blaming Israel after months of being fcked with by Hamas and having rockets sent into their cities. Its the same thing. Don't f*ck with a sleeping giant unless you want it to wake up.

People blame Israel because they stole land and drove Palestinians from their homes, many of them into Gaza.

The 'woe is us' attitude from Israel is as tired as could be. This conflict did not start with Muslims lobbing rockets into Israeli suburbs.

 

[HughJass]

So, cleverusername, are you implying that a good solution to this situation is for the Israelis to just ACCEPT incoming Palestinian missiles as a simple fact of life, and that the citizens of southern Israeli cities such as Sderot and Netivot should be forced to live in bomb shelters for the rest of their lives?

You don't honestly believe that this latest incursion is going to stop the rockets coming, do you?

 

[CCS]

Where should we draw a line so that the boarder is minimized, the palistinians have half, the isrealis have an ocean port, and the gaza strip and the west bank are on the palistinian side, with jeruselum on the boarder?

And we would want to move the fewest people too. Anyone know where the wall currently is? And of those 4-5 neighbors, which hate isreal most and least?

Anyone know more about the cities on that map and the palistian and isrealy percentages?

I typed Israel into google maps. I can't paste a picture because this computer won't let me save pictures to upload. Anyone want to help with that? Judging from the street maps, I'd say the North is far more populated that the south. So is the coast. So if we divide it in half, Isreal should be the north half, with 2/3 of the coast. That might cut them off from the dead sea though. I heard the US bribes Egypt not to attack Isreal, so the north might be better for them anyway.

I think Isreal should get the north 2/3 of the west bank, and draw a east west boarder that gives them the top tip of the dead sea, the norther 2/3 of the coast, and puts jeruselum in the boarder. People in the south are much much less densly populated than people in the north, and have fewer trees. People in the very bottom tip would have to move 70 miles, whereas the average would be a 35 mile drive.

I would make Ashqelon the southern most city of Israel, and cut the boarder just south of Beit Shemesh leaving just enough room south of that city for rocket distance protection, go right through the middle of Jeruselum, then then straight east to the boarder, giving them 5 or 6 miles of dead sea boarder. The palestinians would have to move out of the northern west bank unless they could be trusted, and the israelis would have to move out of the south. The amount of boarder size would be minimized, and the palistinians would be getting a lot of land. I just hope their biggest cities are not in the northern west bank. I hope they are more in the south.

As for the surrounding countries, I guess the fewer Israel has on their boarder the better.

Looks like Nablus is a big palistinian city in the middle of the north west bank. That is the only big problem with this. But if all the Israelis in the south are going to move out of their homes, and leave them standing for the palistinians, the palistinians should leave Nablus standing too.

I see a lot of small towns right on the edge of the west bank israel boarder. I wonder how relations are there.

And I don't think we should give palestinians more land for their bigger population. If they can't keep their family sizes smaller that is their problem.

 

[Beethoven]

mulder, what the Guardian and you are doing is so biased.

1. You added the "proud" to the title yourself, to cause more hate toward israel. The original article didn't talk about "pride".
2. CCS described the scene well. The army post is far away from any citizen area. The little child was taken there by Hamas terroriest to test the Israeli army. Hamas is using his children to fight. they know they'll win that way: If the girl is descovered she will be shot because she might carry a bomb and they'll use her death for propaganda - like you are doing here, and if the girl isn't discovered then Hamas terroriest follow her and attack the army post. Hamas knows very well it's a killing zone and yet they send their children.
3. What your point anyway? Even if this one soldier is crazy, You are trying to brainwash people that Israelis are demons? right mulder? I ensure you that the IDF is far more moral then any other army in the world.
4. Read here:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123085925621747981.html
The link provide detailed explaination of the whole current conflict. Israel left Gazza about three years ago, so there is no reason for Hamas attacks - shooting thousand of rockets into Israeli cities. We have the rights to defend ourself, any other country in the world would have done the same.

 

[techprof]

beethoven,
may i ask if india attacks pakistan for the mumbai attack is that justified?
It has been more than a month and Pakistan has not cracked down on the militants. The US pressure on pakistan is not
serious enough.

I don't thank India should go to war. But if India had been as powerful as USA, pak would have kept quiet a long time back.
(same with India, if Pak had been extremely powerful, India would have lost kashmir and many more states long time back).

At this point in time, I don't see any end for islamic terrorims (whether it is israel, india or anywhere else). perhaps we should give them a separate continent to themself.

 

[squeegee]

So sick of Palestine, Israel, Irag, Iran, Egypt, Afghanistan, Pakistan.......They never made a difference to the society whatsoever because they still live like 2000 years ago. My god is better than yours.. this part of your country belong to me...I hate you muslims, I hate you Arabs.. SAME OLD f*****g STORY..Nothing will change because they have been like that forever.

 

[HughJass]

I ensure you that the IDF is far more moral then any other army in the world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabra_and_Shatila_massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qibya_massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavon_Affair
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahr_el_Bakar
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libyan_Ara ... Flight_114
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qana_Massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Qana_airstrike
the massacre of Marjayoun



try reading something other than the jerusalem post for a change

 

[CCS]

I looked at the Terain of Isreal. It is flat, with a few hills in the north, and the west bank is very mountainous. I doubt anyone could build much of a city in those mountains. Giving that area to Israel would only benefit them by reducing their boarder area, not by giving them land to compensate for the south area. As for the "big city" on the map in that area, I zoomed in on it and there is no city there. Just some trails. I think it is more of a county. The Palestinians seem pretty spread out and undeveloped.

I wish I could find some population statistics on the parts of Israel.

 

[CCS]

I ensure you that the IDF is far more moral then any other army in the world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabra_and_Shatila_massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qibya_massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavon_Affair
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahr_el_Bakar
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libyan_Ara ... Flight_114
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qana_Massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Qana_airstrike
the massacre of Marjayoun



try reading something other than the jerusalem post for a change

Even if those links show bad stuff, the fact is "Proud" was added by the thread author, not the reporters. The girl was clearly forced to walk into the dead zone to test to Israelis to see if they would fire. Their plan was to send girls 50 yards in, then back out, then 100 yards in, then back out, etc, each time with an empty purse, until finally sending them with full purses. They shot her to draw a line in the sand. And now Hammas will use it as propaganda. Catch 22.


I say we cut Israel in half and give the north west to Isreal and south east to Palistine. If the Palistinians have more land, it will be harder for Hammas to recruit suicide bombers, and harder to occupy the area.

 

[Hammy070]

So, cleverusername, are you implying that a good solution to this situation is for the Israelis to just ACCEPT incoming Palestinian missiles as a simple fact of life, and that the citizens of southern Israeli cities such as Sderot and Netivot should be forced to live in bomb shelters for the rest of their lives?

Israel COMPLETELY WITHDREW from Gaza. Israel withdrew its military, and completely tore down ALL of its settlements that once used to be on Gazan soil.

Repeat... Israel COMPLETELY WITHDREW from Gaza. Israel withdrew its military, and completely tore down ALL of its settlements that once used to be on Gazan soil.

And as a result, the Gazans barrage Israel with rockets?

Where is the fairness in that?

Germany completely withdrew from Britain. I however, do not depend on water, food, electricity, or the right to travel to be granted from Germany. That is because, I am in a free country.

Gazans are living in the largest open air prison in the world. They are firing rockets precisely BECAUSE they are not even eligible as a nation to declare any war.

This conflict has many opinions that depend on many things: 1) Whether you see humans as equals 2) How long your memory is 3) If you're an idiot or not

The key one here is memory. Basic cause and effect logic chains depend on your ability to retain in memory a long line of developments so one can have perspective. Because 99% of people have no clue what's going on, they absorb only the recent news however it is revealed, by whichever media they happen to come across/prefer.

A war of definitions. Gardener shows a good example of how pro-Israeli media utilize definitions. "Completely Withdrew" what does this mean? It IMPLIES returning a country to it's default state pre-war, doesn't it? But that's simply an implication, not a definition. There is no definition because the term officially does not exist. So it can mean anything. It is also rather irrelevant, since Gaza and the West Bank are SUPPOSED to be one country, by splitting them into seperate entities so you can use the term "completely withdrew" helps avoid the nagging elephant in the room: The West Bank, it's half a million illegal settlers, continuing expansion, thousands of checkpoints, and second-class status for the only people legally allowed to be there: Palestinians. Gaza also had it's airspace, coastal area, and trade COMPLETELY controlled by Israel as a default, rockets or no rockets. That cannot be defined as "completely withdrew". So it is a nonsense.

12 Israelis have been killed by the firecrackers sent from Gaza since 2000. More fattened Israelis are killed by lard than Qassams. This does not mean of course that Israel does nothing in response. It is fairly obvious that missiles of any kind is not a normal state to live under. Well for everyone, except for Palestinians. But all pro-Zionists in this case put forth the following: The recent bombardment is a REPONSE, to an otherwise ACCEPTABLE state of affairs. That is when the pro-Zionist argument begins to fail. I could go on to list in order major events and injustices going back a long way to highlight all the causes and effects. But it boils down to this: Palestine was wiped off the map along with over 400 villages, nearly a million Arabs were expelled, Gazans today number 1.5 million in a very small area precisely because they were pushed out from the very cities being attacked by Qassams, Al-Majdal (Ashkelon) being a good example.

These were Zionist actions...... in response to what? You won't find anything because those were not responses, they were declarations of war against a recognized people on a recognized land (Palestine) that is in effect to this day. Once you find the cause, you address it. The cause is Zionism and it's supporters. Additionally, the Zionist machine functions primarily outside the region, the Zionist State citizenry originates from outside the region. It's not a civil war between local people, it's a fanatical ideology that gave birth to it's nemesis: Hamas, which came about over half a century after Zionism did.

 

[BlahBlah12]

cleverusername is obviously arab.

How is that obvious?

Yet, people are now blaming Israel after months of being fcked with by Hamas and having rockets sent into their cities. Its the same thing. Don't f*ck with a sleeping giant unless you want it to wake up.

People blame Israel because they stole land and drove Palestinians from their homes, many of them into Gaza.

The 'woe is us' attitude from Israel is as tired as could be. This conflict did not start with Muslims lobbing rockets into Israeli suburbs.

This argument is so old and tired already. Most of the land was sold by Arabs and absentee land owners who were more than willing to sell their land to Jews and displace the arabs tending to it. Theres nothing wrong with purchasing land.
Arabs were displaced during the war for Israel's independence after they were promised by neighboring countries to leave and fight.
Clearly this is over simplified, as is the old "stolen" land defense. Its much more complicated than that. Furthermore, the "woe is us" attitude has been mastered by Palestinian propaganda machines who are masters at using the media and internet to gain world sympathy.
Storing ammunition and establishing headquarters in civilian areas and hospitals purposely and then crying foul when these areas are attacked is pretty cunning and sick.

And this conflict right now, the one going on right now not for the last 60 years is because of the non stop rocket attacks. Lets be honest, Israel can do absolutely nothing right in the eyes of the world. THey ignore the rockets, their still wrong. They try to put a stop to it and suddenly its not a "Fair" response. How exactly would you respond if you were the prime minister of Australia and New Zealand kept lobbing rockets into your country. Just because the rockets tend to miss people doesnt mean their not aimed at human bodies...the intent is to kill civilians, so is their anything a terrorist can do that would get a negative response out of you Aussie?

 

[The Gardener]

People blame Israel because they stole land and drove Palestinians from their homes, many of them into Gaza.

Sorry, but Judaism was flourishing in Palestine for scores of decades before Mohammed was even BORN. We have all seen how open and tolerant the Muslim world is in allowing non-Muslim religions to be practiced on Muslim lands... not... which is why I completely understand why the Jews might a state of their own. Islam is the state religion in lands from Turkey, down to Africa, and all the way east to Indonesia. That's a HUGE swath of the globe. Why is it so outrageous to allow the Jews to have a state with Judaism as the state religion in a small sliver of land amongst the territory upon which King David once ruled?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabra_and_Shatila_massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qibya_massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavon_Affair
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahr_el_Bakar
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libyan_Ara ... Flight_114
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qana_Massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Qana_airstrike

You're so one sided. What about:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coastal_Road_massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawson's_Field_hijackings
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sbarro_res ... de_bombing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tel_Aviv_J ... 5_massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beit_Lid_massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadera_cen ... de_bombing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savoy_Operation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afula_Bus_suicide_bombing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avivim_school_bus_massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dizengoff_Center_massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ma'alot_massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passover_Massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egged_bus_841_massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxim_rest ... de_bombing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netanya_bombing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eilat_bakery_bombing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolphinari ... de_bombing
and:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Qa ... et_attacks

 

[Hammy070]

This argument is so old and tired already. Most of the land was sold by Arabs and absentee land owners who were more than willing to sell their land to Jews and displace the arabs tending to it. Theres nothing wrong with purchasing land.

There is nothing wrong with purchasing land. Correct.

Most land was sold by Arabs. Bullshit. A year before the Zionist State was born, Arabs owned 95% of Palestine. The Zionist State drew borders where they owned land, and all Arab land inbetween it, owned by Jews or not. Then proceeded to massacre them until they left. Destroyed over 400 villages. Tell it how it is, not how you fantasise it.

Arabs were displaced during the war for Israel's independence after they were promised by neighboring countries to leave and fight.

More fantasies. They were actually told by the Saudi King to stay and fight for their land. The war was for Palestinians Independence, you see, it already existed...Israel didn't. Zionism was to colonize another land with foreigners who were not born there. That is not in any way, shape or form 'independence'.

Clearly this is over simplified, as is the old "stolen" land defense. Its much more complicated than that. Furthermore, the "woe is us" attitude has been mastered by Palestinian propaganda machines who are masters at using the media and internet to gain world sympathy.

Vice versa, the USA media is more pro-Israel than Israeli media.

Storing ammunition and establishing headquarters in civilian areas and hospitals purposely and then crying foul when these areas are attacked is pretty cunning and sick.

Fantasy: Purposefully storing weapons so innocent people can be killed

Reality: Zionists deliberately bombing civilian areas

And this conflict right now, the one going on right now not for the last 60 years is because of the non stop rocket attacks.

The one going on right now IS the one going on for the last 60 years. Read my above post, you will learn something about cause and effect.

Lets be honest, Israel can do absolutely nothing right in the eyes of the world.

They must be doing something right to get more aid from your country than all of Africa and Asia COMBINED. Given military discounts more than anyone, and given unchallenged support continuously. They ignore over 60 UN resolutions, and not a single sanction is drawn up let alone enforced.

THey ignore the rockets, their still wrong.

Should the Gazans ignore the fact they were pushed to the sea by Zionists? Should they forget their Arab town Al-Majdal, currently being occupied by Israel and called it Ashkelon? From their perspective, they aren't firing rockets into another country, they're firing rockets at invaders currently occupying their land, stolen at gunpoint. If they don't fight back, then what? They just get trampled on more. If they do fight back, they're terrorists.

They try to put a stop to it and suddenly its not a "Fair" response. How exactly would you respond if you were the prime minister of Australia and New Zealand kept lobbing rockets into your country.

Most New Zealanders live in New Zealand. Most Palestinians, do not live in Palestine, and have their right to return home impeded by Israel.

Australia is not occupying a single inch of New Zealand. Israel is occupying the vast majority of Palestine.

New Zealanders in Australia can buy land. Arabs in Israel are the wrong race to buy land on equal terms with Jews.

etc etc etc

The comparison is another fantasy, at best. For a more equal one, how would America respond if the African-American minority, drew a border cutting through some states where blacks number many, forced millions of non-blacks inbetween to leave, and proceed to seperate from USA to form their own country, where Africans from the continent have instant citizenship, but a white person born in Tennessee is not even allowed to buy a house anymore. As absurd as it sounds, it's more or less a fair comparison.

Just because the rockets tend to miss people doesnt mean their not aimed at human bodies...the intent is to kill civilians, so is their anything a terrorist can do that would get a negative response out of you Aussie?

What is the intention of the Israelis to stop basic food and water supplies reaching Palestinians? What is the intention of expanding settlements in the West Bank, when there's plenty of space elsewhere? Is it for peace? Is deliberately breaking international law and a primary condition for peace (halting settlements) an intention to live in peace, or to extend hostility? Why would they want to extend hostility? Because they have the bigger weapons. Why not have peace? Because it means equality with Arabs, why is this not in Israels favour? Because Arabs will actually have the audacity to stay in Palestine and take part in the political sphere, why does this not work in Israels favour? Because Israel from it's very start, absolutely required bloodshed to exist, the removal of Arabs so that they become less than Jews. No fantasies, no skewed history, the conflict is in Israels interest, not anyone else.