Is Tricomin or finasteride necessary when using Xandrox and spironolactone?

[Baller]

I e-mailed Dr. Lee last week and he told me that since Tricomin didn't want to spend money to get to the phase III of the FDA trial, it shows that Tricomin is not that effective against hairloss and may not be all that important.

Also, Dr. Lee also says that by using his topical products, the use of finasteride is not important. I use finasteride because I assume there are areas (such as diffuse thinning) which is sometimes harder to detect rather than frontal recession and it's a good safety net to have anyways.

What do y'all think about the necessity of using Tricomin and/or finasteride when using Dr. Lee's xandrox products and spironolactone?

 

[dead]

I use Xandrox and Finasteride, like you say it's kind of the saftey net angle.

maybe I should add spironolactone ?????

 

[global]

finasteride is for blocking conversion of testosterone to DHT. It is undoubtedly more effective at this than the azelaic acid used in Xandrox.

Tricomin doesn't have phase III FDA trials but it did have promising phase II trials.

You are likely to have more success if you use a number of approaches and treatments in fighting your hairloss. Do not rely on just Dr. Lee even if he does make good minoxidil!

 

[Baller]

Well, you say "undoubtedly" finasteride is better at preventing dht conversion but Dr. Lee says that Azelaic acid and spironolactone are both very good at eliminating the dht at the hair sites, so much so that finasteride is not needed.

Even though Tricomin had promising phase II trials, don't a lot of drugs have promising phase II trials but don't go to phase III? And there isn't a big enough sample size to really say anything about the drug from just a small sample size, right? At this point, do we know for sure Tricomin is all that necessary for the regimen? I've been using it for a month and I will continue to use it until the bottle runs out.

I don't know if spironolactone is really useful. But only time will tell. At this point, I want the most aggressive approach. Thanks for your replies!

 

[The Gardener]

I use Xandrox and Finasteride, like you say it's kind of the saftey net angle.

maybe I should add spironolactone ?????

Ty, now THERE is a good supplement for your hairline and temples in the am. Instead of using Xan15 in the am's to the temples, apply a layer of spironolactone 5.

Dr Lee has told me that he believes spironolactone to be a far more effective topical anti-androgen than Azelaic Acid. It would be a good reinforcement.

 

[Cornholio]

Dr Lee has told me that he believes spironolactone to be a far more effective topical anti-androgen than Azelaic Acid. It would be a good reinforcement.

does spironolactone need to be twice a day? or should once a day do? I just got some 2% spironolactone and am thinking it would be easy to do it twice a day... Possibly a better plan to use 2% in the am, 5% in the pm? (with my paycheck direct deposit to dr. Lee to save me the hassel).

 

[Bryan]

Well, you say "undoubtedly" finasteride is better at preventing dht conversion but Dr. Lee says that Azelaic acid and spironolactone are both very good at eliminating the dht at the hair sites, so much so that finasteride is not needed.

Ask Dr. Lee for PROOF (no, scratch the word "proof" and make that simply "EVIDENCE") that topical azelaic acid works that way in living animals. All you'll hear is the sound of crickets chirping...

Bryan

 

[Cornholio]

Ask Dr. Lee for PROOF that topical azelaic acid works that way in living animals. All you'll hear is the sound of crickets chirping...
Bryan

There was that invitro study in france involving rat tissue and B6 in a test tube in 1988.... With no followup, invivo or hair related studies to show that it meant anything.

Dr Lee may just possibly be a little biased becaue he gets to add 15$ a bottle to his minoxidil when he ads azelaic acid to it.

At least spironolactone has some animal studies (hamster) and human antiandrogen uses topically (acne) to show it has some effect.

 

[Bryan]

And let's not forget that other troublesome detail: not only is there no proof or even evidence that topical azelaic acid works as a 5a-reductase inhibitor in living animals, there is actually some circumstantial evidence that it does NOT do that. That would be the studies in both humans and animals showing that topical azelaic acid had no effect on the production of sebum (if DHT were being reduced, one would expect sebum to be reduced, because sebaceous glands are extremely sensitive to androgens).

Because of the simultaneous lack of POSITIVE evidence and the existence of NEGATIVE evidence, Dr. Lee has an even tougher road to hoe.

Bryan

 

[techprof]

Azelaic acid worked for me. I tested it on my scalp. Either it reduces the dht or increases the efficiency of minoxidil. I will take either or both anyway. See my story in tell your story section for more details.
Baller, I use finasteride on top of using xandrox 5 and xandrox 15. With generic finasteride available at a reasonable cost I believe that it should be in everyone's regimen unless severe side effects are experienced.
I bought spironolactone. But after adding finasteride and xandrox already I am skeptical in using spironolactone (don't know if it will add any benefit).
Baller, take Dr. Lee's response with a pinch of salt (may be a full jar).
I don't agree with him that xandrox is equally effective as minoxidil+finasteride. I do believe that xandrox+finasteride is more effective than minoxidil+finasteride.
Just like Dr. Lee take what Dr. Pickert says about copper peptides also. He says that close 90% or so DHT on the scalp is killed by his folligen.

I might add proxiphen prescription later. In some threads I read posts saying proxiphen is better than propecia. I think comparing propecia with minoxidil or prox is comparing apples and oranges. (regrowth vs. maintenance). While prox might be the post potent topical for regrowth, spironolactone used in proxiphen cannot compete with propecia in maintenance. As of today, even if one were to add all the topicals in the world (except RU perhaps) propecia/finasteride should in the regimen in my humble opinion.

 

[hairpole79]

I've been using tricomin for about 7 months religously in the morning, and then just about 2 weeks ago quit. It just didn't feel like it was doing anything. Now I'm on my 2nd day of using Xandrox15 and I just can't justify spending $50 for Tricomin every couple of months plus propecia, minoxidil and now Xandrox. . . . at some point you just have to let something go, or else you'll be broke. I think this might be the best combo for me right now.

 

[dead]

Ty, now THERE is a good supplement for your hairline and temples in the am. Instead of using Xan15 in the am's to the temples, apply a layer of spironolactone 5.

Dr Lee has told me that he believes spironolactone to be a far more effective topical anti-androgen than Azelaic Acid. It would be a good reinforcement.

hhhmmmmmm.....choice, choices...

So Xandrox 5% in the Am, with a splosh of spironolactone a cup of tea and a newspaper, then Xandrox 15 in the evening....?

Are there any problems mixing spironolactone + minoxidil + azelaic acid....?

Which goes on first spironolactone or Xandrox...?

When do I get to use my Retin-A....?


I also see there is a 2% and a 5% spironolactone, which to use, why does not everyone use 5% (I am presuming it's effects to be 'stonger') ?


I remember the good ol' days when it was all about 'the big three' LOL it's looking more like the big seven these days (minoxidil, nizoral, azelaic acid, finasteride, spironolactone, retinoic acid and salicyclic acid) well I suppose if I don't grow any hair I can always sell my scalp to a chemical reclamation company.

 

[dead]

does spironolactone need to be twice a day? or should once a day do? I just got some 2% spironolactone and am thinking it would be easy to do it twice a day... Possibly a better plan to use 2% in the am, 5% in the pm? (with my paycheck direct deposit to dr. Lee to save me the hassel).

from xandrox.com

For optimal results, the 5% Spironolactone Lotion should be applied two times per day at least eight hours apart.

 

[The Gardener]

Ty, the spironolactone works just fine with the Xandrox. In Lee's xandrox faq, he answers a question about this and says that spironolactone is compatible with it. Go with the 5%, in the cream. It's just the thing for the application area you are contemplating.

 

[Baller]

Thanks everyone for the responses. I assume that there are always people that choose to believe and choose not to believe. I think, in the end, you either have faith or you don't. While scientists believe in evidence, people like me believe there has to be a little bit of faith. I guess that's why so often many scientists/doctors are not religious (I'm not religious or even agnostic by the way). There are going to be people who have faith in Dr. Lee and those who don't. Scientists will ask for experiments and hard data, but for me, I'll just rely on his word for now. I don't think Dr. Lee has the money or the time to do extensive clinical testing that utilizes all the correct scientific techniques. I'll believe that he has good intentions and that essentially he's a good person.

Ty, Dr. Lee recommends to use spironolactone 10 minutes after the use of the xandrox as an occlusive layer. So, AM I use Xandrox 5%. At night, Xandrox 15%, wait 10 minutes then use spironolactone on the hairlines and temples.

I figure that if I spend all of this money, it's relatively close to what I spend per year on clothing. And oh my goodness, I know that my head and face is at least as important as my hair. So I'm not sweating the extra money. Sure, azeliac acid may not work, but why not try it? The worst it can do is be meaningless so only the minoxidil is the essential ingredient in Xandrox.

And, if it turns out Xandrox and spironolactone aren't as good as dht inhibitors as finasteride, then I'll still be taking finasteride anyways.

Thanks again for all your replies.

 

[techprof]

good attitude baller. i do the same more or less. in addition i use nano/nizoral shampoo. add folligen once in a while. i don't use spironolactone. bought the 2% and use it very rarely.

 

[dead]

Baller, looks like I will be joining you in your regimen, Xandrox 5% in the morning, Xandrox 15 in the evening then a smear a spironolactone applied like peanut butter onto hot toast :freaked:

I might use Retinoic Acid a couple of hours before the evening application and the rinse my scalp before the Xandrox.

Good Luck !

 

[dead]

Ty, the spironolactone works just fine with the Xandrox. In Lee's xandrox faq, he answers a question about this and says that spironolactone is compatible with it. Go with the 5%, in the cream. It's just the thing for the application area you are contemplating.

Mr G

Why is there a 2% formula and 5% formula available ? presumably there are issues with the strength of 5% ???

 

[Old Baldy]

And let's not forget that other troublesome detail: not only is there no proof or even evidence that topical azelaic acid works as a 5a-reductase inhibitor in living animals, there is actually some circumstantial evidence that it does NOT do that. That would be the studies in both humans and animals showing that topical azelaic acid had no effect on the production of sebum (if DHT were being reduced, one would expect sebum to be reduced, because sebaceous glands are extremely sensitive to androgens).

Because of the simultaneous lack of POSITIVE evidence and the existence of NEGATIVE evidence, Dr. Lee has an even tougher road to hoe.

Bryan

Bryan's right. From all my reading, I have found NO EVIDENCE that azelaic acid does much. I have looked and looked and looked.... found NOTHING.

 

[Old Baldy]

Ty, the spironolactone works just fine with the Xandrox. In Lee's xandrox faq, he answers a question about this and says that spironolactone is compatible with it. Go with the 5%, in the cream. It's just the thing for the application area you are contemplating.

Mr G

Why is there a 2% formula and 5% formula available ? presumably there are issues with the strength of 5% ???

Don't mean to jump in for Gardener but I think the 2 percent is a liquid product and, I know, the 5 percent is a cream product. I assume it has to do with solubility.

I agree with Gardener, the 5 percent is a good product and is cosmetically acceptable to boot. (The amount you get in each jar should last a long time.)