Is Propecia really a good idea?

ROAD DOG

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I have been hearing alot of stories about Propecia,and to tell you the truth I have heard more bad than good.We all know there are sexuall side effects and other hormonal complications that can go with it.But what really discourages me from using it is the short term results.It will take up to a year to see if it even works for you.From what I have been hearing,if you do get results from it,they will begin to taper off after a few years and alot of people will start to lose hair again while still taking it!So,basically after a few years of taking all these pills you might still end up losing your hair,then if you get discouraged and decide to quit taking them because they aren't working anymore,then you are really FUCKED!Because your hair will fall out really quick.
I am not trying to knock on Propecia,but that is just the way I see it.I will try to deal with my hair problems using all topicals,until someone can convince me differently.
 

KRAMER

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What's up Dog? We can't be the one to convince you. I think you have to go with the numbers on this that it will help you. I would rather take a chance of it not working than not trying it at all. I don't want to be bald, I am not going to be bald!! I have a financial plan in place right now that will allow me to get a transplant in 4 years if I need it.
 

Grantspots

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Hey, if it ain't for you, it ain't for you. Good luck with your regimen.

jerry grant
 

Olorin

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From what I understand and growing results taper. If the dht is being suppressed then why would the effects diminish? Unless of course you start producting even more dht, in which case upping the dose may be in order. Anyone else?
 

STLman

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Road Dog - Don't worry, I had the the same questions and asked them, got some good responses too. and the usually run of sarcastic crap but beeing a newbie, its what I expected

http://www.hairlosstalk.com/discussions ... highlight=

I guess I've been on finasteride for around 2-3 weeks, no probs so far, most people don't have any and just live their life and not worry about it. As far as temporary results that might only last a few years --- well thats up to you, for me, I'm 22 and if results start to taper after 3-4-5 years, well at least I got results for years 22-26 or so, which seems like a time I'm gonna want the confidence that goes with some added hair.
 

flux

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Do the effects of Propecia start to fade in 5 years?
-For most, yes.

If you take Propecia, in 5 years will you have significantly more hair then you would otherwise?
-For most, yes.

Is hair maintained and regrown on Propecia dependent on Propecia?
-No! Propecia does not have any effect on hair growth except by decreasing the amount of DHT in your system! After quitting Propecia, your DHT levels will rise again, and you will continue to lose your hair at the same rate as you were when you started taking the drug. You will lose your hair, but it wont all fall out in a month like it would from quitting minoxidil. Propecia use has long term benefits. I would say its most likely you will have more hair on your head then you would otherwise for the rest of your life! (until it all falls out). This is purely speculative but it makes perfect sense to me.

If Propecia helps you, and in a few years a new miracle drug comes out that greatly rejuvenates follicles, will you have been better off keeping the follicles alive by having taken Propecia?
-Without a doubt, yes.


Propecia is not a cure. But for most of us, it is a stepping stone.
 

Axon

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I don't know if you can necessarily say results will fade in 5 years for most. I'm not challenging that statement, I just wonder if there are a significant number of 5 year studies that show this is a trend for the majority of users.

Anyway, even for those who see their results begin to taper off, the loss is still generally far slower than it would be off of the drug. I think it is in your best intrests to try the drug and see if it works for you.

5 years is a pretty long time.
 

KRAMER

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I would love to keep my hair for another five years.
 

Axon

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KRAMER said:
I would love to keep my hair for another five years.

My point exactly. I've actually regrown in the year since I've started. If I get 4 or 5 more years out of this with the current hair I have, I'm pretty much all set.
 

ROAD DOG

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I see your guy's point,I am not saying I will never use Propecia I will only use it if all else fails.I am 30 yrs. old,if I take it now,I might see some improvements until I am 35yrs. old,then I will be taking those pills for the rest of my life for nothing. :(
 

richlocks

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It's not that clear cut and simple guys.

Propecia does more than "lower your DHT".

Just by lowering the DHT in your system, your androgen receptor sensitivity do change.. along with a slew of other things (both known and unknown).

I'm on propecia, because i have no choice. I don't like the idea of internal 5ar inhibitors. But that's just me.
 

Axon

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ROAD DOG said:
I see your guy's point,I am not saying I will never use Propecia I will only use it if all else fails.I am 30 yrs. old,if I take it now,I might see some improvements until I am 35yrs. old,then I will be taking those pills for the rest of my life for nothing. :(

No, there are a considerable number of users who continue to see results well into their 7th and 8th years of useage.

The drug does not stop for everyone. In fact, I think it has more to do with male pattern baldness becoming more agressive than Finasteride losing its effect.
 

nomad

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Hmmm. I never really thought of the fact that the acceleration of male pattern baldness could override the drug and it's effectiveness one ones hairloss. Ouch! Only time will tell. But at least I am buying time for now, and that is all I am concerned with for the time being.

Nomad
 

hair mchair

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richlocks said:
It's not that clear cut and simple guys.

Propecia does more than "lower your DHT".

Just by lowering the DHT in your system, your androgen receptor sensitivity do change.. along with a slew of other things (both known and unknown).

I'm on propecia, because i have no choice. I don't like the idea of internal 5ar inhibitors. But that's just me.

Don't have a choice? Huh? What does that mean?

Also, do you have any links to any studies that show that your androgen receptor sensitivity changes in response to lowered DHT? Is this a permanent thing or is it reversible?
 

hope is near

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Olorin said:
From what I understand and growing results taper. If the dht is being suppressed then why would the effects diminish? Unless of course you start producting even more dht, in which case upping the dose may be in order. Anyone else?

DHT is NOT the whole story behind hairloss. It's a big part of it but an even bigger part, from what I've read, is the immune system attacking the hair follicles.
 

drinkrum

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Very interesting point Axon. I wonder though if the body starts to produce more DHT as the years progress after the initial amount at the onset of male pattern baldness. Propecia's 5-year study (you can find it on Google or in one of the old message threads here, for you peeps that don't know) was very encouraging. It seemed that if the pill worked for you for 2 years, it was going to work that way at least until after year 5. Shouldn't this not be so concrete a case if DHT increases?

I'd like a dermatologist or hair specialists response to the first question though -- that is, if DHT production increases.

D.
 

Loopydude

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Propecia a good idea? Depends on you, really...

I think for most people finasteride is reasonably safe and well-tolerated.

It would appear that most people experience some hair growth for up to two years, and then slowly lose hair from that point onward. However, people who are not on Propecia continue to lose hair over the same period, and at a higher rate, so even if the benefits of Propecia diminish, you will likely be better off than someonw who never took Propecia, at least when it comes to your hair.

There may be a number of reasons why Propecia does not allow one to regrow hair and maintain it indefinitely. One of the simplest reasons is that DHT is not the only androgenic hormone in the body (though it is the most potent), and other androgens can promote the hair loss process, albeit more slowly than DHT can. Also, Propecia does not completely eliminate DHT production, anyway; in fact, there is more type-I 5AR in the skin than type-II, so it's kind of suprising that Propecia works as well as it does. One reason may be that the dermal papilla cells express type-II 5AR, but I think it's likely that serum DHT is as important if not more important to the development of the hair follicle than DHT produced in situ. Dr. Lee himself has said that he doubts finasteride would be a good topical agent for hairloss, since it wouldn't inhibit much of the production of DHT there (he went on to suggest dutasteride ought to work well topically, because of its dual inhibition of types-I and II 5AR).

As an aside, it's interesting to ponder the implications of this assertion. By Dr. Lee's logic, finasteride shouldn't work systemically, either, if the skin production of DHT is what counts. In my oppinion, he undermines his own claims about the efficacy of his Xandrox products with this line of reasoning: Serum DHT must be important, or Propecia would be ineffective either sytemically or topically, and hence topical 5AR inhibitors which act only in the skin would likely be ineffective, since they do not protect against serum DHT. I also found the statements of Dr. Alex Khadavi (CEO of Revivogen) very interesting...see the following link:

http://www.regrowth.com/hair_loss_treat ... erview.cfm

Dr. Khadavi claims that his home-made topical finasteride was effective. As I said above, Dr. Lee has predicted topical finasteride would be of relatively little value. Both can't be right. I suspect Dr. Lee is more correct than Dr. Khadavi for one simple reason: If topical finasteride acted only at the site of administration, it probably would not be very effective. However, finasteride has a fairly typical steroid structure; most chemicals with similar structure are readily absorbed through the skin (e.g. testoserone creams and progesterone/estrogen transdermal delivery patches). My guess is that if Dr. Khadavi is telling the truth about his topical finasteride's efficacy, he has very little understanding of transdermal pharmacology, since what he likely created was a transdermal delivery system that allowed for whole-body effects; in other words, no better or worse than oral finasteride. Dr. Lee, on the other hand, seems to be conflicted about the importance of serum DHT and DHT produced only in the skin. He can't have it both ways: Either serum DHT is important, and topical azelaic acid is not likely to be useful, or serum DHT is unimportant, and thus finasteride shouldn't work due to its weak effects in the skin.

Anway, back to the safety of Propecia: Your only recourse is to try it and see. The odds are in your favor that you will tolerate it well, and that it will at least stave off the loss of hair for many years. Plus, unlike the purported antiandrogenic products of Dr. Lee and Revivogen, Propecia has been subjected to extensive clinical trials that have proven its efficacy for male pattern baldness. Given the reasoning of these Dr.'s of alternative male pattern baldness therapies, I'm not so sure I'd trust their professional judgement. You can trust the FDA to a much greater extent (though they're far from perfect).

Now, I am one of the few people who has had a very bad reaction to Propecia, much to my dismay. I got severly depressed on it, worse with each attempt, before I finally gave up on it. Some people experience groin aches, impotence, irritability, moodiness, soft erections, development of man-boobs (gynecomastia), and a bunch of other problems. I think their stories are likely to be quite real, and while relatively rare, severe adverse effects are a possibility. If you have them, get off the drug, the sooner the better for your own quality of life. Systemic inhibition of 5AR does more to your body than make it grow hair in the right places. It interferes with the metabolism of several steroid hormones in your body, including corticosteroids (stress hormones) and progesterone; the metabolites of these are so-called neurostearoids, which are critical enhancers of the neurotransmitter GABA at its type A receptor. In other words, finasteride has an impact on how your brain works, both in its anti-androgen effects, as well as through other mechanisms that you hear little about unless you dig. Nobody knows how important such alterations really are. The evidence is that most people tolerate the changes well. This is the best information you or anyone else has to go on, currently. But, be aware that there are things we don't know, and what you don't know could definitely still hurt you. Just be educated, know the cost-benefit ratio, and act accordingly.
 

Pelican

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Meh, once you get around 25, five years is nothing. You'll hit 30 and wonder how you were just 25 the other day and (unless you let yourself go to pot, which you could do age 15-20 or 20-25 just as easily), realize you don't really look that different, and realize that hair is just as important to you now as it was at 25.
 

cosmo gene

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propecia is sort of given that you kind of gottqa take, chances are you'l be fine with it, however you might have to get creative with bypassing some of the side effects, HOWEVER, propecia is not a stand alone product, spironolactone and folligen (minoxidil?), are a must ok a must a must ad infinitim.
 

zak84

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cosmo gene said:
propecia is sort of given that you kind of gottqa take, chances are you'l be fine with it, however you might have to get creative with bypassing some of the side effects, HOWEVER, propecia is not a stand alone product, spironolactone and folligen (minoxidil?), are a must ok a must a must ad infinitim.

propecia is not a stand alone product? says who? doctors and people much smarter than you claim that it can effectively be used to maintain and regrew hair on its own

spironolactone and folligen arent proven to do anything for male pattern baldness, i think you've been reading too much propaganda
 
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