Quantum Cat
Senior Member
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I figure it must be there for some reason. I know it's important for puberty but does it have a role in grown men (other than to destroy our hair)?
is DHT important for the body?
- Thread starter Quantum Cat
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Short answer yes, but of course the real answer is very complicated and much is still unknown. It balances with estrogen among other things.
Longer better answer - http://thinksteroids.com/steroid-profiles/dht/
Longer better answer - http://thinksteroids.com/steroid-profiles/dht/
LawOfThelema
Experienced Member
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probable involvement in Central Nervous System function (there are androgen receptors in the brain - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22807478), sexual function, possible involvement in cardiovascular function (AR antagonists often have cardiovascular risk as sides)
I think the bigger question should be is 5-ar important for the body, because antiandrogens block this.
It's stops the formation of DHT, but it seems less is understood about the importance of 5-ar; it's apparently important for creation of neurosteroids, which in turn can control things like anxiety, stimulation, thinking etc... that'd certainly explain the sides people suffer.
It's stops the formation of DHT, but it seems less is understood about the importance of 5-ar; it's apparently important for creation of neurosteroids, which in turn can control things like anxiety, stimulation, thinking etc... that'd certainly explain the sides people suffer.
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A properly-designed antiandrogen doesn't block 5a-reductase. It blocks androgen receptors.
Quantum Cat
Senior Member
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I had gynocomastia before I started taking finasteride. fortunately the finasteride didn't make it any worse, but I've always been slightly concerened about screwing around with male/female hormones. It's why I won't ever take Dutasteride, even if my hairloss gets critical
My opinion is if your hair loss is not really bad and is progressing very slowly your better off waiting for another 4 years for CB or some future treatment and just skipping propecia if at all possible. I know that is a long time though and propecia is considered safe and works so a lot of guys need to use what we have now its just not a good idea long term if you can avoid it like using it for prevention.
I agree with you in theory, but unfortunately nobody knows how quickly their hair loss might progress. Sometimes it can start out slowly, then speed up. If your hair loss starts getting bad too quickly, you probably won't see results from finasteride in like 6-12 months, so it could even be worse off.. Plus nobody is sure CB will even work (even though preliminary results look promising), so people might be waiting a while for nothing. It's probable there will be better treatments in 5 years, but no one knows for sure.
Even though I caught my hair loss pretty early, I wish I got on finasteride a year earlier at the very first signs of loss.. That's just my take on it though. Right now, and probably even with drugs like CB, hair loss is be a hundred times easier to prevent than it is to reverse (without resorting to transplants).
Quantum Cat
Senior Member
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what's CB?
I had gyno bad when I was a teen (I was a really fat kid, so that was likely why) but I lost weight in my early 20's. Some residual gyno was left over that I still have to this day. Initially finasteride caused some burning and itchiness, but no growth as far as I can ascertain.
From what I understand, while gyno is growing, it can still be reversed if your hormonal imbalance is addressed. However, if the tissue exists for some time (I believe around a year) then it becomes permanent, and nothing will get rid of it but surgery. If you have this type of 'permanent' tissue, I don't think finasteride makes you more or less prone than the average guy to getting a re-occurrence. However, if you already have a hormonal imbalance that is causing new growth, you want to stay far away from finasteride because it will only make it worse. Most guys after they hit puberty won't be experiencing new growth.
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CB is short for CB-03-01, which is an experimental chemical intended to treat acne and hair loss. It's still in the testing phases, so it's a ways off until it is approved. I know some people at various hairloss forums have had this chemical manufactured and mixed it in with creams to apply it to their heads, but as far as I've seen, nobody has really had any luck with it.
Quantum Cat
Senior Member
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my gyno happened in my 20s as a side effect of some medication I was taking (not finasteride) - unfortuantely it's permanent although I'm trying to lose weight to make it look a little less prominent. The only solution would be surgery, but that's expensive and I doubt I could afford it.
re CB - I haven't been keeping up to date with the new 'breakthroughs' of late - I've heard something about Histogen. I assume there's been no real, tangible breakthrough yet. If my male pattern baldness gets worse I might even consider being a guinea pig. :unsure:
re CB - I haven't been keeping up to date with the new 'breakthroughs' of late - I've heard something about Histogen. I assume there's been no real, tangible breakthrough yet. If my male pattern baldness gets worse I might even consider being a guinea pig. :unsure:
Contrary to what people say, weight loss usually helps quite significantly with gyno. My weight has sort of yo-yo'ed throughout my 20's (up and down maybe 30 pounds) and when I am overweight the whole man boobs thing is much more prominent. I have kept my weight down for quite a while now and it's barely noticeable. Especially when you build some pectoral muscles, it sort of just blends in with the look of your chest. The really crappy thing for me is when I gain weight, I get it on my chest, my sides and my ***. In another way it's good, because it forces me to keep my weight down! Surgery works too, but most surgeons won't operate unless you lose weight to within 5-10 pounds within ideal. I spoke with a surgeon when I was young and he told me that most guys who lose weight don't end up even wanting surgery.
It is important for the development of secondary sexual characteristics, but during adulthood, it is a useless crap that only destroys your body. To illustrate, how "important" it is for the male body, you can look at the elevation of testosterone levels during the use of finasteride and dutasteride: Even after high doses of dutasteride that suppresses DHT by almost 100%, your body won't produce more than +30% teststerone in order to compensate the lack of DHT. At the same time, even small doses of anti-estrogens routinely elevate testosterone by +60%, letrozole even by 200+%.
DHT like any hormone we dont fully understand is not really something you generally want to mess with, but again propecia does work and its the best thing we have right now. So if you have fast or bad hair loss you need to make use of what we have right now and thats propecia. I personally am trying to avoid it but its hard to watch it progress without doing something about it.
I will say this a guy in a different department is like 42 years old and you would think he is 18 not a hair lost on his head. Maybe coincidentally he has 0 facial hair and i assume no body hair. The correlation between androgens is a very powerful one I think science is right on this one its all androgens that does it. Although overall its a much more complex process one place to stop it is at androgen level. Its also arguable propecia or dutasteride is good enough to completely halt male pattern baldness forever I think testosterone needs to get dealt with too probably at receptor level is better.
I will say this a guy in a different department is like 42 years old and you would think he is 18 not a hair lost on his head. Maybe coincidentally he has 0 facial hair and i assume no body hair. The correlation between androgens is a very powerful one I think science is right on this one its all androgens that does it. Although overall its a much more complex process one place to stop it is at androgen level. Its also arguable propecia or dutasteride is good enough to completely halt male pattern baldness forever I think testosterone needs to get dealt with too probably at receptor level is better.
boobyinspector
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Have you seen how thick Brad Pitts beard is? Have you seen how perfect his hairline is? Androgens mean nothing to someone without balding genes. In fact none balding men are said to have just as much DHT if not more. This is serum DHT entering tissues. I think the biggest problem is Testosterone meets 5-ar-2 and a series of reactions occur that cause the immune system to attack the area. I mean I take DHEA and have DHT levels in the normal range and I also take finasteride and have been regrowing my hair.
Of course its genes and your hair must be sensitive to androgens. The immune system is probably very important but its too dangerous and poorly understood for any treatment to mess with that so its not really an option. Really something to target receptors in hair to prevent the androgens from having any effect like CB is trying to do is the better answer then systemically lowering androgens.