Many people use retinol and other irritating chemicals to increase the permeability of their skin for improved minoxidil absoption. Harie is even poking holes in his skin. I just read that when you first get out of the shower, your skin is up to 5x as permeable to minoxidil as when it is dry. So for all the people using Lee's minoxidil, why not just use the shower instead? You probably only need to use it once a day if you do it after the shower, since with retinol once a day is as good as twice without. I think any of these would have just as much systemic absorption. The only way to get more to your scalp, and less to your body, is to put less on your scalp at a time and do it 3-4 times a day.
Increasing minoxidil absorption
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joseph49853
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collegechemistrystudent said:
I've experimented with increasing absorption, and have posted my results a few times. But for some reason, threads on increasing absorption never gather much interest. Many people simply feel increasing minoxidil absorption isn't safe. Yet, it's probably just as un/safe as increasing daily applications, or even increasing concentrations.... from 2% to 7/10/15%.
Anyway, my results clearly showed applying minoxidil to a damp head MOST DEFINITELY increased absorption, as did petroleum jelly. I'm certain of this based on the amplified side effects, including a rapid heartbeat.
However, even with increased absorption, I never experienced much more in the way of results... perhaps a few percentage more in hair volume. Although, it did allow me to decrease my applications from twice to once daily, and my hair never suffered. I was also able to totatly drop finasteride for a few months without any adverse effects. And I like applying minoxidil on a damp head, just based on the decreased amount irritation and itching alone.
Yet, Retin-a was a much different story entirely. I think Retin-a works best because it removes the skin barrier, instead of simply trying to overcome it. Not only did Retin-a increase absorption, but it greatly increased hair volume and overall hair health... in a very short time.
Using minoxidil alone merely allowed me to have the hair of a healthy person in their late twenties, and nothing more. However, adding Retin-A with minoxidil has allowed me literally to turn back the clock. My hair now looks just as healthy and vibrant as in my teens. I get so many more compliments on my hair... just as recently as tonight. Retin-a has made my hair far less ratty looking on top.
BTW, I've always had very thick and full sides and back head hair. But now, the top of my head, where all my thinning was taking place, actually has become more healthy and full than either the sides or the back. In fact, I'm almost thinking of applying Retin-a to those areas just to even out the results. :wink:
joseph49853
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JWM said:
Yes. Maybe. Although, I'd think all Retin-a would be identical... the basic component being Trentinoin, Retinoic acid, or Vitamin A acid. I'll know for sure now that my supply is running low. I'll be buying the generic version this time.
But I think my real point here is, people are looking at the wrong things. They're never concerned about the mechanisms of transport or absorption. So they either: use a handful of products daily, or they up their dosage or concentration.
Still, I found that even by increasing absorption with water or jelly, my hair looked ratty. But by removing the skin barrier itself, suddenly the hair follicle is exposed to a greater concentration of minoxidil. How long this will last is anyone's guess. But I do plan on limiting my Retin-a usage over time, as the effects are a thankfully a lot more long lasting. And there are just so many layers of skin you can remove in a single year. Sometimes less is most definitely more.
joseph49853
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Ramboner said:
Sorry Ramboner, I've always tried to maintain a level of compete anonymity on the Internet... so no pictures here. Although, you could check Dr. Lewenberg's website, where he shows many before/after pictures of his patients using his own minoxidil/Retin-a formula. The results are fairly remarkable.
powersam
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how did you go with irritation and increased sensitivity to sunlight? any signs of that at all? ive been interested in retin a for some time now but living in australia and having pale skin... a little bit more sun sensitivity would probably mean skin cancers a go go.
joseph49853
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It takes very little retinoic acid to be effective for hairloss... like .025 percent. And a little bit goes a very long way. As an acne treatment the suggestion is to use a pea-sized dab. But I could imagine any retinoid having the exact opposite effect, including skin damage and hairloss, if overused. For hair regrowth, I limit applications to once every other day to avoid any potential problems.
Some people believe by reversing sun damage, Retin-a may also help prevent skin cancer. Although, as already stated, you must avoid direct sun exposure several hours after applying Retin-a. I apply mine at night, just before retiring to sleep. And the longer your hair, the less sun overexposure is probably an issue.
Retin-a is also thought to decrease sebum production. Retinoids in general are thought to reduce scalp DHT. But more importantly, Retin-a is believed to activate and maintain stem cells. On that end there's an overall improvement in, not just hair regrowth, but the skin's texture itself.
In other words, while minoxidil's results are temporary, the changes brought about by Retin-a are far more permanent... including increased vascularity. This almost suggests one might be able to go days/weeks without a minoxidil application, while still maintaining hair volume. I already have been able to limit my applications to once a day, with remarkable success... while using no other hair treatment.
I've also noticed, in the area of application, any gray pigmented hairs have progressively reverted back to my natural haircolor.
Some people believe by reversing sun damage, Retin-a may also help prevent skin cancer. Although, as already stated, you must avoid direct sun exposure several hours after applying Retin-a. I apply mine at night, just before retiring to sleep. And the longer your hair, the less sun overexposure is probably an issue.
Retin-a is also thought to decrease sebum production. Retinoids in general are thought to reduce scalp DHT. But more importantly, Retin-a is believed to activate and maintain stem cells. On that end there's an overall improvement in, not just hair regrowth, but the skin's texture itself.
In other words, while minoxidil's results are temporary, the changes brought about by Retin-a are far more permanent... including increased vascularity. This almost suggests one might be able to go days/weeks without a minoxidil application, while still maintaining hair volume. I already have been able to limit my applications to once a day, with remarkable success... while using no other hair treatment.
I've also noticed, in the area of application, any gray pigmented hairs have progressively reverted back to my natural haircolor.
joseph49853
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collegechemistrystudent said:
I'm not certain. But I believe you only need a prescription if it contains an additive, such as hydroquinone.
suicidedude
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What brand of retin do you guys recommend? I want to try looking for it in the pharmacies. Or do we really have to get from Dr Lee his pure 0.025% retin?
And also, is 0.025% the lowest percentage for retin?
And also, is 0.025% the lowest percentage for retin?
Strat54
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I believe the most widely known is Retin-A from Janssen-Cilag.
You can buy it here without prescription:
http://www.inhousepharmacy.com/skin-care/retin-a.html
This link is for the cream, which is more suitable for hairline and temples.
If you want to apply it on top, you should use the liquid solution (like Dr. Lee’s)
You can buy it here without prescription:
http://www.inhousepharmacy.com/skin-care/retin-a.html
This link is for the cream, which is more suitable for hairline and temples.
If you want to apply it on top, you should use the liquid solution (like Dr. Lee’s)
suicidedude
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I see, not Oxy or whatever anti-acne brand? Does it have to be purely 100% retin?
Is it recommended to apply on the whole scalp?
And, does any other place sell it in liquid or only Dr Lee sells it in liquid form?
Is it recommended to apply on the whole scalp?
And, does any other place sell it in liquid or only Dr Lee sells it in liquid form?
joseph49853
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suicidedude said:
It needs to be specifically Tretinoin or Retin-a, in either .025% or .05% concentrations. The creme is very effective, but the gel absorbs even better. Just be careful, and watch for signs of irritation. To avoid sun exposure, I apply a pea-sized dab every other night, and then minoxidil around 30 minutes later for maximum absorption and efficacy. Don't be surprised if your scalp peels some skin.... this is completely normal.
BTW, I believe the biggest mistake people make is overdoing the Retin-a. And then, instead of growing hair, it might have the opposite effect, based on increased Vitamin A toxicity or general scalp inflammation. So remember: a little goes a long way, and slow and steady wins the race.
Strat54
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grabber wrote:
The best approach to Retin-A is to start slowly. Start by applying a few times a week, with 0.025, and if you don’t get any sides, apply it more often until you are able to stand a daily application.
Then you could try using the 0.05, and even the 0.1
I haven’t seen any article that recommends the 0.1 for hairloss.
I could tell you that on my face, I didn’t see or feel any difference between the 0.025, 0.05 or 0.1.
The best approach to Retin-A is to start slowly. Start by applying a few times a week, with 0.025, and if you don’t get any sides, apply it more often until you are able to stand a daily application.
Then you could try using the 0.05, and even the 0.1
I haven’t seen any article that recommends the 0.1 for hairloss.
I could tell you that on my face, I didn’t see or feel any difference between the 0.025, 0.05 or 0.1.
