I'm Going To Test A Brotzu-esque All Natural Topical

[whatintheworld]

Hi everyone,

Basically, until the official Brotzu lotion comes out, I'm going to be trying a combination of two topical oils. My thought process was, is there anything I can find that can mimic dgla + equol?

What I think I found is a combination of carthamus tinctorius (safflower oil) and trifolium pratense (red clover). I have been using an alcohol-mixed tincture of each, and applying it topically to my hairline and my crown for the past 2 weeks. I can't say I've noticed anything yet, but I am willing to test this for a few months to see what happens. As a reference, I am not on finasteride or min, but am taking supplements such as PSO/saw p. I'm a diffuser not a receder, so my hairline is becoming see through, and I'm diffusing all across my crown.

Some background on safflower oil:

"Once synthesized or ingested, GLA quickly is elongated to dihomo-γ-linolenic acid (DGLA; 20:3n-6). DGLA is a precursor to two important anti-inflammatory metabolites: prostaglandin PGE1 and 15-OH-DGLA. Many of the favorable effects of GLA are attributed to increased tissue levels of PGE1, which is known to suppress chronic inflammation. "

And for red clover (which has high formononetin content):

"
Formononetin is one of the main components of red clover plants and its role on hair regrowth against hair loss has not been established yet. In the present study, we assessed the potential effects of formononetin on alopecia, along with impaired hair cycles by induction of apoptosis-regression.

Depilated C57BL/6 mice were used for monitoring the hair cycles. Formononetin (1 and 100 µM) was topically treated to the dorsal skin for 14 days. Topical formononetin treatment induced miniaturized hair follicles to recover to normal sizes. Tapering hair shaft began to grow newly, emerging from the hair follicles by formononetin. In addition, formononetin inhibited the activation of caspase-8 and decreased the procaspase-9 expression. As a result of formononetin treatment, anti-apoptotic Bcl-2 was up-regulated, whereas pro-apoptotic Bax and p53 were down-regulated, resulting in a decrease of caspase-3 activation. Formononetin showed the obvious inhibition of apoptosis under terminal deoxynucleotidyl transferase dUTP nick end labeling staining thereafter.

Taken together, our findings demonstrate that formononetin exerted the hair regrowth effect on hair loss, in which the underlying mechanisms were associated with Fas/Fas L-induced caspase activation, thus inhibiting apoptosis.

"

Anyway, if anyone else is not on the big 3 yet, and wants to give it a go with me, feel free and we can report results.

 

[Mr White]

Good luck and keep us posted on your progress.

 

[IvanXproject]

Have you noticed any side effects?

 

[whatintheworld]

No side effects at all. I apply about 0.7 ml (1 dropper full) on my crown and my hairline, but not at the same time. I usually put the safflower oil first, wait like an hour, and then the red clover.

As a note, I tried topical castor oil for 8 from February to October (so 8 months?) and I don't think it did anything, so I will just take it orally from now on (the usp grade kind, the one safe for consumption).

 

[Swoop]

Good luck dude .

 

[whatintheworld]

And to add, I believe both of these might be useful to take orally, but I'm skeptical if that will actually affect the hair follicles.

Although, if anyone understands biochemistry better than me, if the Brotzu lotion hypothetically could be consumed, would it have the same potential benefit for hair?

 

[abcdefg]

Sure but something like that brotzu lotion largely was based on the idea of some type of topical delivery system (cationic liposome carrier system) as to why it would work. These experiments are fine, but making a proper topical vehicle is not some trivial toss stuff into alcohol kind of thing really. So the effectiveness might not be that amazing
IMO all topicals are hugely dependent on the vehicle details. Its a huge critical piece of any topical and also complicated.

 

[champpy]

Hi everyone,

Basically, until the official Brotzu lotion comes out, I'm going to be trying a combination of two topical oils. My thought process was, is there anything I can find that can mimic dgla + equol?

What I think I found is a combination of carthamus tinctorius (safflower oil) and trifolium pratense (red clover). I have been using an alcohol-mixed tincture of each, and applying it topically to my hairline and my crown for the past 2 weeks. I can't say I've noticed anything yet, but I am willing to test this for a few months to see what happens. As a reference, I am not on finasteride or min, but am taking supplements such as PSO/saw p. I'm a diffuser not a receder, so my hairline is becoming see through, and I'm diffusing all across my crown.

Some background on safflower oil:

"Once synthesized or ingested, GLA quickly is elongated to dihomo-γ-linolenic acid (DGLA; 20:3n-6). DGLA is a precursor to two important anti-inflammatory metabolites: prostaglandin PGE1 and 15-OH-DGLA. Many of the favorable effects of GLA are attributed to increased tissue levels of PGE1, which is known to suppress chronic inflammation. "

And for red clover (which has high formononetin content):

"
Formononetin is one of the main components of red clover plants and its role on hair regrowth against hair loss has not been established yet. In the present study, we assessed the potential effects of formononetin on alopecia, along with impaired hair cycles by induction of apoptosis-regression.

Depilated C57BL/6 mice were used for monitoring the hair cycles. Formononetin (1 and 100 µM) was topically treated to the dorsal skin for 14 days. Topical formononetin treatment induced miniaturized hair follicles to recover to normal sizes. Tapering hair shaft began to grow newly, emerging from the hair follicles by formononetin. In addition, formononetin inhibited the activation of caspase-8 and decreased the procaspase-9 expression. As a result of formononetin treatment, anti-apoptotic Bcl-2 was up-regulated, whereas pro-apoptotic Bax and p53 were down-regulated, resulting in a decrease of caspase-3 activation. Formononetin showed the obvious inhibition of apoptosis under terminal deoxynucleotidyl transferase dUTP nick end labeling staining thereafter.

Taken together, our findings demonstrate that formononetin exerted the hair regrowth effect on hair loss, in which the underlying mechanisms were associated with Fas/Fas L-induced caspase activation, thus inhibiting apoptosis.

"

Anyway, if anyone else is not on the big 3 yet, and wants to give it a go with me, feel free and we can report results.

Test all natural you will, but fail you shall.

 

[Frank K.]

And to add, I believe both of these might be useful to take orally, but I'm skeptical if that will actually affect the hair follicles.

Although, if anyone understands biochemistry better than me, if the Brotzu lotion hypothetically could be consumed, would it have the same potential benefit for hair?

Up to 70% of what you put on the skin, depending on what it is, is absorbed in to the body. The skin is a living organ after all. I think in some cases, things are better off being applied topically as the stomach acid does destroy a lot, specially in someone who has to much acid in their system.

 

[whatintheworld]

@Frank K. , That is good to hear I suppose, nevertheless I have a lot of vellus hairs on my hairline that I would like to turn terminal, but of course it is uncertain (or, to be more precise doubtful) if these two tinctures will do that.

Nevertheless, there is some scientific backing that they may, so I might as well try, seeing as if I start minoxidil i'll be on that for life, so I might as well give these two things a shot before I make that commitment.

There is another study, which can be found pretty easily, that showed that safflower oil was actually more potent than finasteride as a 5-ar inhibitor. "
5α-reductase inhibition and hair growth promotion of some Thai plants traditionally used for hair treatment.",

Carthamus tinctorius L. was the most potent 5α-reductase inhibitor, with a finasteride equivalent 5α-reductase inhibitory activity (FEA) value of 24.30±1.64 mg finasteride equivalent per 1g crude extract. Phyllanthus emblica L. was the second most potent inhibitor, with FEA of 18.99±0.40. Rhinacanthus nasutus (L.) Kurz. was the least potent 5α-reductase inhibitor (FEA 10.69±0.96). Carthamus tinctorius also was the most potent hair growth promoter in C57BL/6 mice. There were strong relationships between 5α-reductase inhibitory activity and hair growth promoting activity (r=0.719), and between 5α-reductase inhibitory activity and hair follicle count (r=0.766).


I believe this tincture I am using has ~300mg of dry herb per drop, meaning that, if I scale it to the finasteride equivalent, that is approximately 7mg of finasteride dosing? Take a 70% absorption rate you mentioned (which is perhaps optimistic, lets say 30-40%), that is maybe like taking 2.5mg of finasteride. Nevertheless, this whole point is moot if nothing works, but so far I have no side effects, and we'll see if anything comes of this experiment.

 

[MakeItSo]

"I believe this tincture I am using has ~300mg of dry herb per drop, meaning that, if I scale it to the finasteride equivalent, that is approximately 7mg of finasteride dosing?"

-do you mean -300mg per dose instead of per drop? Either way, good luck!

 

[whatintheworld]

"I believe this tincture I am using has ~300mg of dry herb per drop, meaning that, if I scale it to the finasteride equivalent, that is approximately 7mg of finasteride dosing?"

-do you mean -300mg per dose instead of per drop? Either way, good luck!

Per dose. I can't actually apply the full 0.7 ml because it's just way too much liquid and it drops down my face from my hairline, but I try to get like half of it.

Also, I'm actually going to only apply this on the front of my head now, and minoxidil on the back. Nevertheless, if there are gains in the front, it should be apparent, so god speed

 

[LawOfThelema]

Hi everyone,

Basically, until the official Brotzu lotion comes out, I'm going to be trying a combination of two topical oils. My thought process was, is there anything I can find that can mimic dgla + equol?

What I think I found is a combination of carthamus tinctorius (safflower oil) and trifolium pratense (red clover).

Dude, just use s-equol.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/With-Track-...618680?hash=item1a19f4bab8:g:dAgAAOSwMtxXsL3X


But as has been said: it's the cationic liposomal vehicle that's the issue here. You can't reproduce that from your home.

 

[bassa]

@whatintheworld any update on your experiment?

 

[br1]

he's dead

 

[paxis]

he's dead

That was unexpected hahaha

 

[hairblues]

what happened?

 

[tylerduren]

what happened?

Bitten by a snake oil

 

[whatintheworld]

Back to give an update...I tried this for about 2 months only on the hairline, didn't notice any results (no worsening or improvement). I was also on finasteride during this time, and have been for the last 5 months, and that hasn't yielded any change for the positive or negative either.

So, I'm not sure if it's good or bad, or if I gave it enough time, but it seems that it won't give any minoxidil like regrowth regardless.

Also, my hair loss was pretty aggressive, so I'm maybe not the best guinea pig for experimental treatments, as I was losing ground quickly.

 

[bassa]

thanks for the update