I'm about to try needling / derma roller ... any experts?

[amsch]

Hi there.

After reading some positive things about the needling thing, i think i'm gonna give this a try on my hairline. (my hairline is about a Norwood 2,5)

However, i have some questions

-) I have a pretty large head. Does that maybe mean i have to get into the skin deeper? Not sure to take 0,5 or 0,75 mm.

-) Which topicals to use? I use Revivogen at night, i thought of trying minoxidil with the derma roller in the morning. I guess i'm gonna take Dr. Lee's, as it's fast-drying and less greasy.

-)Any directions HOW to use it? I mean, first topical than needling, or the other way, which direction to roll and is it possible to do it where still some hairs exist.

-) What are your opinions/experiences with needling?

greets and thx

 

[Guest]

I have used a roller i got off ebay in the past....

 

[Harie]

-) I have a pretty large head. Does that maybe mean i have to get into the skin deeper? Not sure to take 0,5 or 0,75 mm.

-) Which topicals to use? I use Revivogen at night, i thought of trying minoxidil with the derma roller in the morning. I guess i'm gonna take Dr. Lee's, as it's fast-drying and less greasy.

-)Any directions HOW to use it? I mean, first topical than needling, or the other way, which direction to roll and is it possible to do it where still some hairs exist.

-) What are your opinions/experiences with needling?

greets and thx

1. I picked up a roller that penetrates to 0.75mm IIRC. Pretty well made and is ~$100 or so. According to the manufacturers, it will last a year.

2. IMO, it's best to apply topicals after you roll. It creates micro holes in your head and will help the topicals penetrate. As for directions to roll etc, go one way and then go over the area again the other way. I don't think it matters if you use on areas that currently have hair.

3. Experiences. It f-ing hurts the 1st few times you use it. But after a week or so, I got used to it and it actually felt good. Sometimes I draw blood if I press really hard, but it doesn't bother me at all and it doesn't scab up either. I just wipe the blood away and after a few hours or so, I can't even tell anything happened to my scalp.

 

[amsch]

-) I have a pretty large head. Does that maybe mean i have to get into the skin deeper? Not sure to take 0,5 or 0,75 mm.

-) Which topicals to use? I use Revivogen at night, i thought of trying minoxidil with the derma roller in the morning. I guess i'm gonna take Dr. Lee's, as it's fast-drying and less greasy.

-)Any directions HOW to use it? I mean, first topical than needling, or the other way, which direction to roll and is it possible to do it where still some hairs exist.

-) What are your opinions/experiences with needling?

greets and thx

1. I picked up a roller that penetrates to 0.75mm IIRC. Pretty well made and is ~$100 or so. According to the manufacturers, it will last a year.

2. IMO, it's best to apply topicals after you roll. It creates micro holes in your head and will help the topicals penetrate. As for directions to roll etc, go one way and then go over the area again the other way. I don't think it matters if you use on areas that currently have hair.

3. Experiences. It f-ing hurts the 1st few times you use it. But after a week or so, I got used to it and it actually felt good. Sometimes I draw blood if I press really hard, but it doesn't bother me at all and it doesn't scab up either. I just wipe the blood away and after a few hours or so, I can't even tell anything happened to my scalp.

Thanks for your reply!
I heard it does not really depend on the needle length, but on the pressure you use it. is that true?
You said first roll in one way, apply topical, than in the other way. I'm a bit confused right now because the official sites say to first apply the topical, and than roll 1-3 times in the SAME direction, otherwise it could be damaging

Do you still use it? Which topical and where?

 

[Harie]

Thanks for your reply!
I heard it does not really depend on the needle length, but on the pressure you use it. is that true?
You said first roll in one way, apply topical, than in the other way. I'm a bit confused right now because the official sites say to first apply the topical, and than roll 1-3 times in the SAME direction, otherwise it could be damaging

Do you still use it? Which topical and where?

Depending on which version's instructions you read, it says different things. Some say to apply topicals 1st and roll, others say to roll 1st and then apply topicals. The way I used it covered both bases.

I have never read that rolling in 2 directions was bad. IIRC, I read that it's best to roll both directions, but that was a while ago, so I don't remember where I read it. As for penetration - definitely depends on how hard you press on it. Lighter pressure = no blood. More pressure = blood sometimes.

I use every once in a while - anytime my scalp itches, I roll over the itchy area and it makes the itch go away. I don't use topicals anymore, so I can't answer that part. At the time, I used in combo with Ozbrew.

 

[Guest]

I think you pretty much have to use a topical like rogaine afterwards...Or there is really no point to it....

 

[Harie]

I think you pretty much have to use a topical like rogaine afterwards...Or there is really no point to it....

There are people on other forums that got results from it without using minoxidil.

 

[amsch]

Damnit, where can i get a 0,75 mm version that does not cost 200$ ?

 

[mj9]

people that are already needling - any success?

no one seems to comment on the results properly when it comes to needling!

 

[Finish line]

wouldn't it cause the skin to thicken up or toughen over time. I would think this would inevitably become counterproductive in terms of aiding the use of topicals and in and of itself.

 

[Harie]

wouldn't it cause the skin to thicken up or toughen over time. I would think this would inevitably become counterproductive in terms of aiding the use of topicals and in and of itself.

Why would it do that? Have you seen pictures where people with nasty scars used derma-rollers to break up the scar tissue? The difference is night and day. Rollers can be used for all kinds of things. Diminishing stretch marks, fixing acne scarred face, diminishing the look of lines and wrinkles, diminishing scars etc.

 

[amsch]

Damnit, where can i get a 0,75 mm version that does not cost 200$ ?

:whistle:

 

[amsch]

I guess i'm gonna get a 0,5mm roller... Do you guys see any disadvantage? Can it be enough? the 0.75 roller is pretty expensive, though.

 

[Harie]

I guess i'm gonna get a 0,5mm roller... Do you guys see any disadvantage? Can it be enough? the 0.75 roller is pretty expensive, though.

If you figure you can use the roller for a year before it needs to be replaced, it is actually quite cheap. And I think that was a year of every day use too.

 

[amsch]

I guess i'm gonna get a 0,5mm roller... Do you guys see any disadvantage? Can it be enough? the 0.75 roller is pretty expensive, though.

If you figure you can use the roller for a year before it needs to be replaced, it is actually quite cheap. And I think that was a year of every day use too.

Thanks for your reply, hairie! Do you really think 0.5 isn't enough?

 

[masculineyourheart]

I think .5mm is way too small as well, especially considering your type of hair loss, it'll barely touch your scalp.
.75mm used on my peach-fuzz-ridden temples is enough to occasionally draw blood and seems the perfect length for that area but on the rest of my head wear the hair has just diffuse thinned, it barely pierces the skin. It just feels kind of uncomfortable and I have to really press hard to do any decent 'needling'.

I'd suggest buying at least a .75mm roller so long as it's very sharp and pierces the skin easily. I'm even considering bumping up to a 1mm and just going lightly on the temples so I can get a good depth around the rest of my head.

Something to think about.

 

[Harie]

Thanks for your reply, hairie! Do you really think 0.5 isn't enough?

I do not think that 0.5mm is enough. I think that 0.75mm is the bare minimum. I had the exact experience that masculineyourheart had. On my temples, if I really pressed hard, I could get blood every once in a while, but everywhere else, it seemed to not even hurt. I know some people on Regrowth.com think that minimum of 1mm is needed to promote wnt signaling. Some even are going as far as recommending 1.75mm - 2mm needles, in an effort to draw blood and try to break up fibrosis/promote wnt signaling.

 

[masculineyourheart]

I had some spare time to walk around town the other day and so wandered in and picked up a single lancet from a diabetes information centre. After taking this thing home, cleaning it, accidentally flushing it down the sink, opening up the sink pipes and getting water all over the place, turning off the water, re-opening the sink pipes, removing the lancet, closing up the sink pipes and mopping up all the water, cleaning the damn thing again, and then finally stabbing my head repeatedly with it followed by a generous helping of (not so) power topical... my head was felt feeling slightly bloody and AWESOME.

Using a sharp lancet to needle for about 20 minutes, each time listening for that delicious 'popping' sound, followed by a decent topical, 100% poos all over the .75mm needle roller I was using. This was relaxing, sweet (?... yes!), and surprisingly so much less painful. I found by the next morning that that awful feeling of pained, tight scalp underneath a layer of death (normal skin) was reduced IMMENSELY. My head allllmoooost feels like a normal head again... not quite, but hopefully over time it will again. It seems to provide a superb way at getting to that sh*tty feeling underneath that gets worse with touching and scratching and that oil massage hadn't had any effect on.

Woo! I need some sleep. All this is a roundabout way of saying, if you're stuck waiting on your power dermaroller, go pick up a lancet from a diabetics centre (flirt a little and she'll give one to you free) and pop your head full of air holes.

...then come back here and tell us all about it. You bastard.

 

[Harie]

All this is a roundabout way of saying, if you're stuck waiting on your power dermaroller, go pick up a lancet from a diabetics centre (flirt a little and she'll give one to you free) and pop your head full of air holes.

Or, you could go to the local drugstore and pick up a 100 pack of diabetic 30+ gauge (IIRC, the ones I used before I got the roller were 32 gauge) lancets. They cost something like $5 for 100 of em.

The only thing I hated about the lancets was there was no depth control. If I wasn't really careful, I'd poke holes that were way too deep, especially in the crown area. Plus, it takes 10x as long to poke 100 holes with the lancet as it does with the roller.

 

[masculineyourheart]

It does take a lot longer with the lancets but I found depth control was easier because I was doing the stabbing and was able to get more consistent depths right around my scalp. Something that helps is doing it when there's no other noise around, it's much easier to judge by the sound than by feel.

How did you know you'd gone too deep? Pain? Blood? Brain fluid?