If you take finasteride, then later stop taking it, can your rate of balding be accelerated?

[TinTon]

I just wondered if there is any knowledge on the following:

Say you start taking finasterde for 3 months or 3 years or whatever times-scale and for example you started having side effects so had to stop taking it, is there a chance that the rate in which you are balding could be sped up at all i.e. by say upregulation of androgen receptors? or any other factors?

Many Thanks

 

[Mikazz]

I don't think it has been studied on finasteride but upregulation and downregulation of receptors is a common phenomenon in biology when you get more or less of something for an extended period of time. When I stopped finasteride after a bit more than 6 month of use, I lost a extreme amount of hair in the following months leading me to think that there is actually an upregulation of receptors when you take finasteride. This might be temporary.

 

[TinTon]

Yeah it kind of sucks really, because it's almost like they (the drug companies) have you by the balls, in the sense that once you start you are basically fearing stopping incase you lose way more than you would have lost if you had never started, and to boot; you can't prove that either way... so they 'have you' by pure fear of accelerated hair loss.

But this is only bad for those who experience intolerable side effects. As if you don't experience bad side effects and you at very least maintain the hair you have, then the process of taking finasteride will have been worthwhile.

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How long ago did you stop for? and was the massive hair loss temporary just going back to baseline? or has it continued at a faster rate than before you were taking finasteride? or have you replaced the finasteride with some other treatment instead?

 

[Mikazz]

Yeah it kind of sucks really, because it's almost like they (the drug companies) have you by the balls, in the sense that once you start you are basically fearing stopping incase you lose way more than you would have lost if you had never started, and to boot; you can't prove that either way... so they 'have you' by pure fear of accelerated hair loss.

But this is only bad for those who experience intolerable side effects. As if you don't experience bad side effects and you at very least maintain the hair you have, then the process of taking finasteride will have been worthwhile.

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How long ago did you stop and was the massive hair loss temporary? or has it continued, or have you replied the finasteride with some other treatment?

You absolutely need to get an antiandrogen (anti-dht) in your regimen if you wan't to keep your hairs in the long run. There are alternative treatments such as RU58841 (which is easier to get nowadays) if you need a fallback solution. Finasteride is still the cheaper and the most effective solution if it fits you.

 

[abcdefg]

Even if something new comes out finasteride is going to be a much more cost effective way of keeping hair probably and will be much cheaper if money matters to you. Any new treatment in the next few years is going to cost an arm and leg for certain to recover the huge FDA expenses.

 

[TinTon]

Cheers lads, I guess the grounding of my initial question on this post was based on a statement a guy made on a different hair loss forum where he wrote:

Quote

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Why the heck should one lose more hair/faster after quitting Propecia, while still having hair, even if you haven't gained/kept anything?

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it's an unfortunate event called upregulation. When you take Propecia your androgen receptors become more sensitive to DHT in the scalp. While on Propecia you don't notice this because the finasteride is blocking most of the DHT.

So when you stop taking Propecia your hair is now more sensitive to the DHT in your body AND you don't have Propecia protecting you so you experience a quicker rate of loss once you stop. We believe that over time your body will normalize your androgen receptors so the rapid rate of loss shouldn't continue. Merck's 5 year study chart confirms the upregulation hypothesis.

You may receive no benefit from Propecia and not experience upregulation. The study data chart shows us the vast majority of men receive a benefit from Propecia and experience upregulation. There are those that claim upregulation does not exist. To me, there is significant study data to show upregulation does indeed occur and is the reason for the rapid loss of hair following discontinuation of Propecia.

 

[Dench57]

Upregulation can happen as a result of taking Finasteride. It's poorly understood though - why does it seem to affect some much more than others? How long does it last, or is it permanent? I wish I knew the answers to these questions because I'm experiencing probably one of the worst cases of it myself, but you won't much information online.

Here is what Dr. Sawaya reported to the European Hair Research Society back in 2000:

All scalp biopsies from patients obtained 6 months after finasteride treatment revealed intense upregulation of AR expression in comparison to pre-treatment biopsies of the same patient

http://ehrs.org/conferenceabstracts/2000marburg/guestlectures/s04-sawaya.htm

This was only a study of 10 men with Androgenetic Alopecia though. I don't believe this level of upregulation can happen with everyone because otherwise everyone's hair would be getting ****ed up badly for people coming off finasteride, which doesn't seem to be the case for a lot of people.

 

[TinTon]

Upregulation can happen as a result of taking Finasteride. It's poorly understood though - why does it seem to affect some much more than others? How long does it last, or is it permanent? I wish I knew the answers to these questions because I'm experiencing probably one of the worst cases of it myself, but you won't much information online.

Here is what Dr. Sawaya reported to the European Hair Research Society back in 2000:


http://ehrs.org/conferenceabstracts/2000marburg/guestlectures/s04-sawaya.htm

This was only a study of 10 men with Androgenetic Alopecia though. I don't believe this level of upregulation can happen with everyone because otherwise everyone's hair would be getting ****ed up badly for people coming off finasteride, which doesn't seem to be the case for a lot of people.

Thanks mate, yeah it's a bugger is this, as it puts you in a catch-22 situation when wanting to start using finasteride; if you don't get side effects from it then I guess you're all good, but it would be annoying to start it then a month later find out that it gives you some intolerable side effects so you quit using it and get slapped with far more rapid 'hair loss rate' than prior to taking the drug.

You're defo right about there not being many studies or info online regarding this, I doubt there ever will be too as who's going to spend the time and money on such a study, defo the drug companies won't do so incase the results shoot them in their own foot.

I wish I didn't read into shyt so much and just had the balls to blissfully jump on the finasteride-train like most others do, damn my overly inquisitive mind!

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I don't believe this level of upregulation can happen with everyone because otherwise everyone's hair would be getting ****ed up badly for people coming off finasteride, which doesn't seem to be the case for a lot of people.

Mate, when you say "which doesn't seem to be the case for a lot of people" what do you base that statement on? Have you spoke to a lot of guys on here who have told you that they quit taking finasteride and just went back to baseline then continued balding at the same rate as before they touched finasteride?

Much appreciated

 

[Dench57]

Yeah it's a huge roll of the dice. Unfortunately it's the best treatment we have which means sooner or later most people who care about their hair will have to take that risk. Odds are you will be absolutely fine, but it can really screw you over if not. I can't find any studies that pertain to upregulation in the scalp after 6 months. It's been 7 months since stopping for me and I show no signs of returning to normal. There are studies which shows intense upregulation in the prostate 5 years after stopping. Would that apply to the scalp too? I have no idea but I don't see why not. There are no doctors which would be able to tell you this either.

And don't feel bad about doing your research beforehand, that is sensible. I should've done more research myself. Although I understand you feeling you'd rather be ignorant, sometimes I wish I didn't know the things I do now.

 

[abcdefg]

I dont know a lot of those receptor upregulation studies were done by Dr. Mary E. Sawaya a.k.a.Marty Sawaya (Dr. Sawaya) who was debarred by FDA for not having a valid medical license. So who knows if her stuff is even valid. A lot of people just search up these old studies and dont know who the author was or if they were reliable. In this case not very.

http://www.circare.org/fdawls3/sawaya_20090612.pdf

 

[xetudor]

You guys are really overthinking this one. What's next? Stopping fluoride toothpaste results in a increase in dental cavities? Well, no ****.

 

[TinTon]

You guys are really overthinking this one. What's next? Stopping fluoride toothpaste results in a increase in dental cavities? Well, no ****.

I agree that I'm overthinking it, I even said exactly that in my previous post on this thread, I'm just a very cautious fella, and in some ways that's good and in other ways that sucks, I agree.

In terms of the toothpaste scenario haha yeah I know what you mean, but the question really isn't if hair loss will resume if one is to quit using finasteride, that's a given.

My question was just about ones current rate of going bald i.e. could that current rate be sped up if you started finasteride then had to stop taking it? That was the question.

 

[xetudor]

From what I understand, you will get to where you would have been without starting the drug. I think this will include some serious hair loss. I wouldn't worry though. Everything in life is temporary, enjoy it while you have it.

 

[Deppish]

I quit fina a few years ago (for sides), but only began major shedding during the last year. Then, after a year, the shedding stopped. The result is a small step for Norwood, but a big step for me... well, in fact it's more about thinning than receding. I'm still considering options... and figuring out the factors of what's happened. I'm still not quite sure about this:


After quitting fina, would one
A) tend to shed more during/ after several years, as if to get to the hairloss level where one would have been at that same point had he never used fina to begin with, or
B) just start to shed at the same rate one did before starting fina..?



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(Note: This is one of my "New registrations must have at least 4 posts in order to create a new thread"-posts, so I hope people won't mind me digging up old threads or asking questions already answered... at least I'm not looking for answers I know already. I'll post the whole story at "Tell Your Story" once I can.)

 

[TinTon]

I quit fina a few years ago (for sides), but only began major shedding during the last year. Then, after a year, the shedding stopped. The result is a small step for Norwood, but a big step for me... well, in fact it's more about thinning than receding. I'm still considering options... and figuring out the factors of what's happened. I'm still not quite sure about this:


After quitting fina, would one
A) tend to shed more during/ after several years, as if to get to the hairloss level where one would have been at that same point had he never used fina to begin with, or
B) just start to shed at the same rate one did before starting fina..?

It sounds like when you stopped it did play 'catch-up' but it was very much delayed as you said "a few years" before that 'catch-up' kicked in, which is interesting.

I'm in the same boat as you i.e. thinning as opposed to receding.

Yep you have the same questions as myself mate, but your outcome does sort of address those questions, at least for you personally anyway.

Can I ask: what side effects did you suffer from taking fina?

 

[GoldenMane]

I've asked multiple doctors and hair transplant surgeons about this and none of them seem to know if upregulation occurs or not. Here's one interesting tidbit I got today though...

Finasteride has a short half life of 8 hours, and due to this constant fluctuation of DHT levels in your body, from lower to higher exposure, upregulation is less likely to occur. Dutasteride due to it's longer half life has a more constant presence, thus follicles experience constant low levels of DHT rather than the diurnal fluctuations of finasteride.

Thus if upregulaton does occur, it's far less likely with finasteride and far more likely with dutasteride.

 

[abcdefg]

I've asked multiple doctors and hair transplant surgeons about this and none of them seem to know if upregulation occurs or not. Here's one interesting tidbit I got today though...

Finasteride has a short half life of 8 hours, and due to this constant fluctuation of DHT levels in your body, from lower to higher exposure, upregulation is less likely to occur. Dutasteride due to it's longer half life has a more constant presence, thus follicles experience constant low levels of DHT rather than the diurnal fluctuations of finasteride.

Thus if upregulaton does occur, it's far less likely with finasteride and far more likely with dutasteride.

That might be but it also might not be. I mean its a complete guess really no one has any idea. I wouldnt bet the farm on that. Just take whatever one you want. Stopping more DHT is better but more dangerous long term.

 

[xRedStaRx]

Androgen up-regulation is a myth. In fact, more androgens create more androgen receptors, not the other way round.

 

[Deppish]

Yep you have the same questions as myself mate, but your outcome does sort of address those questions, at least for you personally anyway.

Yes, in a way it does, I suppose I was asking (from anybody who might have an idea) because there may have been other factors at play for me and I sought to isolate them. My whole (long) story can be read at http://www.hairlosstalk.com/interac...reatments-with-side-effects-I-m-in-a-quandary , for those who might be interested...

Can I ask: what side effects did you suffer from taking fina?

Slight sexual sides and gyno. Not so bad I swore finasteride off for good, but I also got a little worried reading some anti-finasteride propaganda...

 

[GoldenMane]

That might be but it also might not be. I mean its a complete guess really no one has any idea. I wouldnt bet the farm on that. Just take whatever one you want. Stopping more DHT is better but more dangerous long term.

Any proof/studies? I really hope you're right...

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Androgen up-regulation is a myth. In fact, more androgens create more androgen receptors, not the other way round.

Any proof/studies? I really hope you're right...