I WISH there was a drug that...

[Felk]

... worked against hair loss, body hair, and acne. Seriously, something that took out all those ugly androgen skin problems, and left the rest of your body alone.

Here's what we're stuck with at the moment:

Finasteride - works against hair loss, sometimes against body hair, but usually gives people acne.

Dutasteride - the same sort of thing, except perhaps works against acne a little in some people due to the inhibition of type 1. That does me no good however, because I don't want to inhibit that at all due to any mental effects.

Minoxidil - works against hair loss, but causes body hair.

Accutane - works very well against acne, but causes hair loss!

About the only thing I can think of is spironolactone or some other oral antiandrogen, but that's something I'd never do.

Also, I'm not wild on finasteride or dutasteride because of their other side effects.

So about the only thing I can think of is making some really cheap spironolactone, GTE, or some other mix of things, and smearing your body with it!

Seriously, i'm at a loss of what to do. Proxiphen is giving me too much body hair, finasteride might be giving me acne, etc. At the rate things are going, I might have to take a cocktail of drugs or creams to combat all the side effects. Anyone have some suggestions for combating this awful combination of embarassing conditions safely?

 

[I_Hate_DHT]

Unfortunately that is all we have at the moment. At least is something. Worse is nothing.

 

[Guest]

I think it's a mistake to say that finasteride usually gives people acne. If you were to say that it gives some people on this board acne( which is a very small, small percentage of everyone on finasteride), then that would be more accurate.

I also do not believe that finasteride and dutasteride have negative mental effects on most people. It may happen for some but the way the original post is worded implies that a majority of people who get on these two drugs will suffer these two side effects. I believe that to be very incorrect.

And I do believe dutasteride has cleared up what little acne I had by the way. My face has never been this clear.

 

[bubka]

i agree, with finasteride, i would say no change or maybe even less acne

 

[Felk]

I think it's a mistake to say that finasteride usually gives people acne. If you were to say that it gives some people on this board acne( which is a very small, small percentage of everyone on finasteride), then that would be more accurate.

I also do not believe that finasteride and dutasteride have negative mental effects on most people. It may happen for some but the way the original post is worded implies that a majority of people who get on these two drugs will suffer these two side effects. I believe that to be very incorrect.

And I do believe dutasteride has cleared up what little acne I had by the way. My face has never been this clear.

I should reword that - when I say "usually gives people acne" i mean, if it has any effect on acne at all, it's usually a negative effect people complain about. But I said "i don't want to use dutasteride. due to any mental effects" - this implies the mental effects are possible, not probable.

I would like to use dutasteride due to its apparent positive effect on acne.

However reading that even finasteride does effect the brain, that the 5AR2 enzyme is not just confined to DHT, but dihydroprogesterone (some other word) as well, which is found in the brain, had me worried. The only advice people gave in this discussion was Bryan saying that this wasn't new news at all, and finasteride is likely to have much less of an effect on the brain than dutasteride.

That, combined with the apparent shedding people experience on dutasteride, has put me off the drug.

 

[bubka]

I think it's a mistake to say that finasteride usually gives people acne. If you were to say that it gives some people on this board acne( which is a very small, small percentage of everyone on finasteride), then that would be more accurate.

like we said, there is no proof of this, and if you are going off of the posts, my view from reading is that it reduces acne, if no change at all

again, not scientific at all

 

[Felk]

Well finasteride has no effect on sebum production apparently, according to a study Bryan quoted once.

However many people complain of finasteride causing acne for them, and I've hardly ever read anyone talk about the opposite. Brittania, lopfraze, jacky81, aplunk, apoc, are just a few people who had acne on finasteride off the top of my head. Just yesterday someone asked if "serious back acne" was a side effect of finasteride, because they were experiencing it.

Bryan was asked in the "DHT and acne" thread to explain how one poster maintained that finasteride helped with his acne. HARM1 asked him "why does he say it helped?" and Bryan said "People say all sorts of crap"

So acne probably isn't that common on finasteride, but it's certainly possible. finasteride raises test levels remember.

 

[bubka]

whatever those quotes are suppose to mean... nothing, i will admit, the initial spike in testosterone could cause some acne, but longterm, there is nothing to boast your claims, sorry

 

[Felk]

whatever those quotes are suppose to mean... nothing, i will admit, the initial spike in testosterone could cause some acne, but longterm, there is nothing to boast your claims, sorry

Hey, i'm not out to bash finasteride. I intend to keep trying to take the stuff. As i said, I wish it did work against acne, it would be great!

i will admit, the initial spike in testosterone could cause some acne

There is no "initial spike" in testosterone when taking finasteride. The raising of testosterone levels is a permanent change.

 

[Bryan]

i will admit, the initial spike in testosterone could cause some acne

There is no "initial spike" in testosterone when taking finasteride. The raising of testosterone levels is a permanent change.

You got to him before I could!

Bryan

 

[HARM1]

i will admit, the initial spike in testosterone could cause some acne

There is no "initial spike" in testosterone when taking finasteride. The raising of testosterone levels is a permanent change.

You got to him before I could!

Bryan

What does a permanent change mean ? T levels never go down even when u let finasteride go ?

 

[Bryan]

What we mean is that testosterone levels continue to be increased (slightly) for as long as you continue to use finasteride. Finasteride apparently causes a true upregulation of testosterone production.

Bryan

 

[s.a.f]

How old are you Felk? Changes in bodyhair and acne could just be occuring naturaly.

 

[I_Hate_DHT]

i will admit, the initial spike in testosterone could cause some acne

There is no "initial spike" in testosterone when taking finasteride. The raising of testosterone levels is a permanent change.

wow, thanks for the info man... I have read for months in this forum, people saying that when you start on finasteride, testosterone levels suddenly rise and then go back to an average level.


Now, there is something I never understand.. if we take propecia and our testosterone levels rise, is not that a bad idea for our hair?? since more testosterone, could mean more DHT conversion. Who can explain me this?

Thanks.

 

[Felk]

i will admit, the initial spike in testosterone could cause some acne

There is no "initial spike" in testosterone when taking finasteride. The raising of testosterone levels is a permanent change.

wow, thanks for the info man... I have read for months in this forum, people saying that when you start on finasteride, testosterone levels suddenly rise and then go back to an average level.


Now, there is something I never understand.. if we take propecia and our testosterone levels rise, is not that a bad idea for our hair?? since more testosterone, could mean more DHT conversion. Who can explain me this?

Thanks.

Hmmm it was discussed recently by a few of us, probably in the experimental forum. Testosterone is thought to have a negative effect on hair, but not as powerful as DHT. The presence of other androgens (such as testosterone) is thought to be a possible reason why finasteride. or dutasteride. won't completely stop further balding like carstration appears to.

However more testosterone doesn't mean more DHT conversion all up because you're blocking DHT.

I'll try find the thread, but i think it was to do with dutasteride and "frontal thinning" or something.

 

[bubka]

so it does not "spike" up then? what does it do? i guess a 10% increase is not a "spike" you guys are something else...

 

[Guest]

The presence of other androgens (such as testosterone) is thought to be a possible reason why finasteride. or dutasteride. won't completely stop further balding like carstration appears to.

Here's the thread you were talking about Felk, regarding frontal thinning on Avodart:

http://www.hairlosstalk.com/discussions ... ide#232324

I think the reason why some continue to thin on dutasteride could also be the remaining follicular dht from 1 mg/5 mg of finasteride or 0.5 mg a day of dutasteride a day. Even the 98.5% of type II that dutasteride blocks may not be enough. I think that substantially less people would ever thin on dutasteride if they were taking 2.5 mg per day, for example, which blocks 100% of type II I believe, and a huge chunk of type I as well. But that may be unsafe.

Bryan has also said before that it could just be an age-related thinning as well, because everyone's hair thins as they age and maybe that age-related thinning has nothing to do with dht or androgens like testosterone, etc.

I'm wondering if Bryan thinks that taking 2.5 mg a day of dutasteride(assuming it was safe) would stop most people from continuing to thin, compared to 0.5 mg a day.

 

[Bryan]

so it does not "spike" up then? what does it do? i guess a 10% increase is not a "spike" you guys are something else...

Testosterone rises with finasteride use. Period.

What you said earlier about an "initial spike" of testosterone clearly implies a sudden increase of testosterone, which then eventually goes back down again.

Bryan

 

[Guest]

Maybe bubka was talking about the period in which the testosterone is originally raised. From talking to him I am certain that he knows that the testosterone increase is permanent while taking finasteride/dutasteride. I think what he was saying was that he thinks some people may experience acne during the first few weeks after commencing treatment with the drug, but then as their body adjusts, it may go away. But I could be wrong.

 

[Bryan]

Ok, now I think I see your point.

Bryan