i think im a PFS victim

[waldo]

ok so basically i started taking finasteride in april, started with 1mg daily dose, experienced ball ache, nipple ache, loss of libido and weak erections. reduced the dose to 0.5mg after 2 weeks, and discontinued the treatment after another 2 weeks.

after a couple of days i was extremely horny for about 3-4 days, then things went back to being shitty.

thank god i dont have any of those wierd mental side effects, ...

its pretty much just a reduced libido and erectyle weakness im dealing with.

should i be worried? how long does one normally take to normalise after taking finasteride? is there anything i can do to aid the recovery process? i feel like such an idiot for putting my health at risk ... and i knew exactly about the dangers... and no, the probability of it being psychological is absolute zero.

please tell me i will be alright...

 

[Prop]

easy wal,
is very probable that u recover without problems

maybe u need weeks or months for a total recover but is also good

more than that u can start to worry

 

[Wuffer]

Waldo, relax buddy, you will be fine. It can take up to a month for things to get back to normal. Stay away from these side effect forums in the meantime. You will just drive yourself mental.

 

[Ende]

Merck states that all the side effects should subside within 2 weeks. In some cases Propecia affects thyroid hormones as well, although it hasn't been reported during the trials. For me, it took 3 weeks before the symptoms of hyperthyroidism subsided. Everything should be normal within a month.

 

[Rawtashk]

The WORST thing you can do this early in the game is to fret and obsess about it. Remember the old adage "A watched pot never boils". Not everything in life is like flipping a lightswitch. Things happen in increments. Maybe you get 2% better each day, but constantly thinking about it and over analyzing will make you feel like there's no progress at all.

Now, forget about it all month and all of a sudden you're 60% better!!

(just random numbers that I picked, I'm not a doctor)

 

[Prop]

The WORST thing you can do this early in the game is to fret and obsess about it

however is more easy to say than to do.
in my first 6 months sides i cannot think other things.

 

[waldo]

thanks for helping me sleep better the last couple of nights guys.

im already back to normal, and now i realise my penis had shrunk from taking the finasteride... having persistant or permanent sides of this kind has to be one of the most psychologically devastating things that could happen to a man

never again, even if it turned out to be perfectly safe from my experience, a drug with side effects of this magnitude shouldnt be considered a viable alternative.

 

[Rawtashk]

All drugs have a potential for sides, ALL DRUGS. If ED and penis shrinkage was 50%, then I'd agree with you, but the fact of the matter is that the % is rare, and acceptable. Read about the potential sides on Advil. It's some scary stuff if you obsess about it.

What about penicillin? That drug has saved COUNTLESS lives. You know what one of the sides are? Death.

 

[Mens Rea]

All drugs have a potential for sides, ALL DRUGS. If ED and penis shrinkage was 50%, then I'd agree with you, but the fact of the matter is that the % is rare, and acceptable. Read about the potential sides on Advil. It's some scary stuff if you obsess about it.

What about penicillin? That drug has saved COUNTLESS lives. You know what one of the sides are? Death.

finasteride doesn't save lives, though. It just ruins them.

It's nto even confirmed that proscar does.

 

[Wuffer]

finasteride doesn't save lives, though. It just ruins them.

All it does is ruin lives? How about the 99.9% guys that take it with no serious problems? Because maybe 1 in 1000 had their lives ruined, doesn't mean that's all it does. Cosmetic issue or not, hair loss goes deep and affects lives significantly. We all know that. Treating hair loss does wonders for restoring confidence in a depressed invidivual. finasteride does WAY more good than bad.

Think of it like any other drug. Some unfortunate people have very bad experiences from them; some even die. But if a thousand times more people benefit from the medication, then overall isn't it making peoples lives better? Isn't it better that the medication is available, and overall isn't the medication a very good thing?

 

[Ende]

finasteride doesn't save lives, though. It just ruins them.

All it does is ruin lives? How about the 99.9% guys that take it with no serious problems? Because maybe 1 in 1000 had their lives ruined, doesn't mean that's all it does. Cosmetic issue or not, hair loss goes deep and affects lives significantly. We all know that. Treating hair loss does wonders for restoring confidence in a depressed invidivual. finasteride does WAY more good than bad.

I agree with this, although more than 0.01% experience dangerous side effects. According to the Merck studies, it's at least 2%. I believe that the number is a lot higher in reality.

 

[Ende]

Btw, I saw a documentary yesterday... It revealed some very disturbing things about the american drug industry and the FDA. It seems like the whole system is corrupt, and it's no wonder why we don't get any help with Propecia;

Prescription for Disaster

People who put their trust in authorities should see this. It'll change their perspective.

 

[Prop]

Think of it like any other drug. Some unfortunate people have very bad experiences from them; some even die. But if a thousand times more people benefit from the medication

good argument.

but i have lot of doubts about the percentage that merck & c. provide to the general public

enden pointed out corruption and for sure is good to be suspicious

real independent studies r needed


someone talk about penicilline/other drugs side effects.
but why not so much people report bad sides ?
maybe i mistake, but i see a lot of fina post marketing bad report, i guess more respect other drugs

 

[Wuffer]

I was more referring to the amount of people that suffer from severe (persistent) problems resulting from use. I agree with you; it seems the number of people experiencing sides seems to be higher than 2%, but it's tough to guage. Of the people that have sides, the vast majority recover, but obviously we see that some don't.

I know it doesn't make it any easier for you guys. Since you had severe problems, statistics don't mean sh*t to you at this point!

Interesting video, I only watched part of it but i'll watch the rest later. It's interesting they are talking about Vioxx too.

I actually don't know much about Vioxx, but i've seen quite a few chronically ill people posting about it on messageboards. Many of them are extremely upset that it was pulled from the market, and I think there is a push to bring it back to the market. One lady said the pain resulting from her condition was excruciating 24/7, and she is currently hooked on Oxy. She said she took Vioxx for a period of time while it was on the market, and it almost completely relieved her pain. Pain that she claimed Oxy barely even touched!

While it's terrible that so many people died from Vioxx, it's an extremely effective pain medication. For many chronically ill people out there, it may well be well worth the risk.



BTW Waldo buddy, sorry to hijack your thread! I'm glad to hear you are doing well. It's clear finasteride isn't for you, so it's good you found that out now.

 

[Wuffer]

Hey Propecia, I believe the side effect statistics resulting from the FDA trials were accurate as to what they found in their test subjects. There have also been a number of subsequent trials that show more or less the same numbers. Some show side effects on Finasteride match the matched placebo group (i.e. show no sides on finasteride), and other studies show sides as high as 10% in the finasteride patients. There are a number of variables that can affect these numbers, and when a medication is released to the general public, you almost always see an increase in side effects due to numerous variables.

As another bit of anecdotal proof, my family doctor said he's prescribed Propecia to around 300 guys and has personally seen less than 10 reporting problems.

Also, test subjects selected for FDA trials are usually completely healthy. When you have physically and/or mentally unhealthy people in the general population taking a med, you will likely see an increase in side effects from that as well.

Back to the placebo effect; this has been demonstrated as a factor during Finasteride use. Here is a smallish study involving around a hundred guys that shows how powerful this can be:

[attachment=0:2l85r27o]user593_pic3444_1303427964.jpg[/attachment:2l85r27o]


Obviously this is just a piece of the puzzle, but the placebo effect would account for some of what we all see reported online. Unfortunately, since we all spend so much time on these forums, we get a bit of an unrealistic view of the experience of the general population. I would say less than 1% of men on propecia visit and post on these forums, but it’s hard to say!

I don't personally believe the FDA or Merck have altered the results of their finasteride trials, but many people do.. It's yet to be seen. If this is the case, the ongoing lawsuits would hopefully uncover these facts!

 

[Rawtashk]

finasteride doesn't save lives, though. It just ruins them.

It's nto even confirmed that proscar does.

I wasn't saying that finasteride saves lives at all. Here's the breakdown

Drug (Penicillin) is awesome. It changed the world, saved lives, and opened up a whole new world as far as drugs are concerned.

Drug (Penicillin) also has potentially FATAL side effects (for people allergic to it).


My point was simply that there's always a possibility of bad with everything.

 

[Rawtashk]

Finfighter, I don't disagree with any specific point that you made. The question comes down to "how badly do you want to keep your hair?" For me, it was worth the potential side effects. Now, if some serious sh*t starts creep up on me, I'll drop finasteride in a heartbeat. Trust me, I'd rather be bald and still be able to get it up.

My current approach is to maintain as much as I can until something else gets FDA approval, then switch to that. I believe that it's 100x easier to maintain what you have than it is to re-grow. I don't have any faith in new products that will regrow hair, so I don't want to go bald and then hope to be able to gain some back.

It's like being between a rock and a hard place. Damned it you do, damned if you don't :-/

 

[Rawtashk]

So I've heard, but it's still in trials, and I have yet to see proof (pics or it didn't happen!!). That makes me a bit scared. I don't want to stop a proven thing to go to something that isn't (yet). That, and my hair is about 3in long, which makes topicals a pain in the ***!!

 

[Prop]

Hey Propecia, I believe the side effect statistics resulting from the FDA trials were accurate

I don't personally believe the FDA or Merck have altered the results !

wuffer, u don't seem to me as naive as u play,
i'm not a clairvoyant but if merck cheated in the past is more easy that do it again.
And lawsuits are easy bearable by such companies
the1 month selling revenues of an unsafe drug r enough to pay all

just an old article, if u google u'll find more recent

Manipulating a Journal Article

When a prominent medical journal accused Merck-sponsored researchers of excising data from a scientific paper to play down the heart risks of the painkiller Vioxx, it further tarnished the reputation of a company once revered for its corporate ethics.
More broadly, the incident underscores the danger that industry-backed studies may not tell the whole truth about products vital to a company's bottom line.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/11/opinion/11sun2.html

 

[Wuffer]

Hey Propecia,

I have to say it's farfetched to accuse Merck of covering up Propecia side effects just because of their questionable ethics in the past. For something like this to be true, there needs to be proof. Otherwise, it's simply conjecture. If you choose to believe this, that's your prerogative. I don't personally believe it, but I could be wrong.

As I mentioned in my previous post, there have been a number of non-Merck sponsored Finasteride studies that more or less corroborate the findings of the Propecia FDA trials. These, in addition to anecdotal reports from several physicians that have shared their experiences prescribing the drug are solely what I base my opinion on. These sources show more or less the same incidence of side effects in users versus the placebo group.

I submit that the belief side effect rates are higher than reported by Merck is simply due to the biased nature of forums in general. Since people experiencing a negative reaction to a medication are much more likely to vocalize their disapproval, you don't get an accurate view of the experiences of the general population.