I have decided to smash DHT again!!

[Hoppi]

I am still working on my collagen rebuilding thing but.. I just think it's such a tremendous and expected coincidence that at EXACTLY the same time as my scalp hair started thinning and turning to junk, my body hair increased noticeably, and has not let up increasing. I think that whether my DHT levels have increased or simply my follicles/body-wide sensitivity to the hormone has increased.. the quick-fix solution is obvious. CRUSH DHT!!!! lol

In the long run, I can always try to optimize sex hormone levels, but for now.. I agree with you guys that if DHT is the enemy, why the hell pretend otherwise? lol

So, I am still unsure about finasteride because the stuff.. my body doesn't seem to be the biggest fan, I don't want to push my luck too far.

I think, because of their more unknown and probably synergic combined mechanisms, I will mix high dose beta-sit, low dose finasteride, borage oil, lignans, possibly black tea and eventually s-equol, to form a powerful internal anti-DHT hit!

It's gotta be done


Hoppi!

 

[mpbsux20]

 

[Hoppi]

That's probably what my body has started to put up surrounding my 5ar enzyme after LAST time I tried this little escapade...

 

[mpbsux20]

Doing all those at the same time sounds like a really bad idea.You have done all this research on hairloss and still you dont seem to understand the basic rule for guys with little or less signs of it.

Start with one drug,see if it works....If it doesn't add another.

 

[Hoppi]

Yeah but time is running out lol, I just want to stop it now.. I've had enough of games!

 

[mpbsux20]

I just looked at your regimen,you have added finasteride every 2 to 3 days.Thats a wise choice and its highly unlikely that you will suffer from any side effects.
I reckon you would maintain for a long time and even regrow a good chunk of what you lost in your temples.

 

[Hoppi]

Thanks man

Yeah I've added back finasteride. I just feel I should be more careful this time, as I went in too quickly before and I don't think it did me good. I reckon that definitely when combined with the other DHT-reducers it should tide me through ok until I get my s-equol supplement together and try it out! If it works, you can expect something new to choose from in future! ^_^

 

[mpbsux20]

Yes give it time and your body will get used to it....Most of the permanent side effects are psychological but I do empathize with those individuals as quite often they have a bigger problem in life apart from going bald.

 

[s.a.f]

A guy who's loss is visible only to himself and he devotes more time to it than most cancer researchers do to finding a cure.
Had to lol when he said he'd give up anything except his sexual health for hair. Clearly he doe'snt mind sacrificing his mental health for it!

 

[Hoppi]

owh ._. lol

Erm, thing is s.a.f, I know it might look like in the pics a while back that I haven't lost much, but really, every day I have to go into the bathroom and run my fingers through my hair to get rid of all the dead ones otherwise they will be falling everywhere around me and it's embarrassing

Literally, although my loss at the front has been very slow, the diffuse loss has been much faster. My hair at the top is thin and looks weaker, paler, just unhealthy. I've been getting much more dandruff. And the scary thing is that the way it's been progressing, I don't think it would actually stop until either it's VERY very thin, or it's all gone. As soon as my shedding stops and I feel a bit more confident maybe I'll take another picture to show it at it's worst

And yeah I know I've gone a bit crazy about this lol, I just love my hair so much and was totally unprepared, so I became completely determined. I have been very upset about this a few times ._. However, I have learned a lot, and now I can hopefully get it under control, continue with my education and get on with my life, and help other people with the knowledge I gained! Woo! ^_^

 

[TheGrayMan2001]

So basically you're trying to do the exact same stuff Dutasteride does without taking dutasteride......instead you're going to take a bunch of random crap that I think might give you more side effects than dutasteride or finasteride ever would.

Just get on finasteride. I don't know why you're so scared.

 

[47thin]

Supplement company good, Drug company bad!

 

[GeminiX]

Supplement company good, Drug company bad!

I've always wondered why so many people seem to think that.

Do supplement and alternative therapy companies give their products away for free or something?

 

[Hoppi]

The thing is, apparently black tea for example lowers DHT by 72% without sides, and also increases T. I have also heard rumours that beta-sit has other mechanisms such as blocking receptors, but that might be nonsense.

Point is, I am concerned as to how my body would take high dose finasteride (it wouldn't), but the combined effects of different (mostly natural) blockers, may work by slightly different mechanisms and give a different effect. I really don't know, but the body is complex enough for nearly anything to be possible lol

S-equol is of course still my main focus though it's just that I need something in the mean time!


The biggest question on my mind at the moment though is _why_ I had this weird DHT increase / sensitivity increase. Something must have happened to make it happen and my body hair increase, etc, overnight. I may pop to see an endocrinologist or something to see if they can work out what on earth could have made that change occur inside me


Hoppi! ^_^

 

[cuebald]

"Rumours" "Apparently" "I've heard" are all words that don't really fill me with confidence.

There are posts in the experimental boards that one day say "Black Tea decreased DHT 30% in study A", then the next day "DHT levels increased 30% in subjects drinking Black Tea".
There's no conclusive, proven evidence that any of this quackery works.

If I was quickly losing my hair, I'd want to jump on a known, effective treatment ASAP - rather than messing about with the latest HLH/Experimental section fad (while watching my hair go down the drain.)

I mean, I like experimenting with the stuff in the Experimental board myself, but I know also to keep on Finasteride as I know it works. I don't plop a load of stuff on my head in the vain hope it works (I tend to test it on body hair areas - one side with, one side without).

Taking up to 10 supplements in one go is much more dangerous than just taking Finasteride. The mechanisms of action could conflict with one another - not to mention the potential load on your liver.

You should be able to see why coming onto the main section proclaiming you've cured male pattern baldness will get some people's backs up - especially when your cure is some research chem the regulars here had bitter disappointment with years ago.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I don't like you (you seem to be one of the very few members full of enthusiasm) but you can easily rile people up.. Especially when the only pictures we've seen from you showed a thick NW1 with no signs of a mature hairline, let alone male pattern baldness.
What Norwood are you now, boss?

Regarding your second point, I've seen DHT levels seemingly rise suddenly in a fair few guys in their early-mid 20's - for little apparent reason.
One guy I know went from being practically hairless at 22, to almost covered (even the back) at 25; like it came out of nowhere. He still has his thick NW1 though.
I on the other hand haven't grown any body hair since I was about 19, yet I turned from a NW1 to a NW4 at age 22-24.

 

[Hoppi]

Thanks for all the useful information and experience man That was interesting to read!

Also, it makes me feel a bit better to see that other guys have that considerable DHT (sensitivity?) increase in their 20s, but I still can't help but wonder why.

As for mixing supplements, I think the liver point is mostly moot as many, many people take more than just some black tea extract and beta-sitosterol. I won't even be on any concentrated multivitamins or anything like that.

The risk of mixing them.. maybe. But I can't help but perceive it as being safer than reintroducing my body to higher amounts of the chemical it objected a fair amount to last time (finasteride).

Oh, so what you were saying about my being keen on things that other people have had no success with - have people tried and failed with getting equol into the bloodstream in good doses before? Or is that one new? I couldn't find any examples of people who had tried this before online, but if I am wrong and it has been tried and proven ineffective then I will accept that evidence

 

[theShade]

Hoppi - shave it off, shave it all off. DO it. And I don't mean with a clipper, I mean shave it off with a razor, right to the skin. Don't be a pussy. Just say F.U.C.K it, and do it. Be rash, be impulsive, be brave. Be bold, be bald. It'll remove the main barrier to you stopping your hairloss - your vanity.

Once you've gotten rid of all of you hair, come to terms with the look (take the slybaldguys.com advice about keeping it shaved for 30 days), then you can begin the process of saving your hair with the most effective weapons at hand:

Patience.

and...

Systematic method.

All of these observations you make, all of these little-known supplements with dubious evidence - they don't mean sh*t. Not neccesserily because of the actual science itself, but because of the way you are going about it. All this s-equol, collagen, denstisi (or whatever the name is) - I can't sit here for sure, and tell you that it won't help your hair. Truth is I don't know, and if you want to try them out in lieu of finasteride and your fear of it, I think that's a reasonable enough decision (personally though I'd try finasteride).

HOWEVER, what you are doing, of taking something for 2-3 weeks, making an observation, then switching to something else, making another observation, coming to another conclusion, and switching your regimen yet again - THIS I can pretty much guarantee you, will get you 0 results. The longer you keep up this pattern, the more hair you are going to loose. Any Tom, Dick or Harry will tell you that to see legitimate results from any regimen at all, will take you at least 4-6 months or so. All this time you could have been keeping up a regimen, yes even a highly experimental one if that is what you prefer. And every few days (if you really found it neccessery to do it that often), you could have been jotting down your highly-speculative observations with pen & paper, taking photos and generally keeping track of progress. Over time you would definately have learnt a thing or two. Instead of this, you have simply wasted time and money on bullshit.

I'm telling you, if you keep this crap up you're going to go bald. You also shouldn't pay too much attention to minor body changes - there are any number of thousands of environmental factors that could be causing them other than your balding process or treatments including diet, sunlight exposure, small variance in hormone levels or whatever. Hell they could just be a result of age. But again, if theoretically you were onto something, you certainly wouldn't figure out what it is by going about things the way that you have been going about them.

 

[mpbsux20]

Man I am sorry to hear that....dutasteride is always a little too strong and could increase the chances of side effects twice as much as finasteride.I really meant to say that finasteride sides are rare and often your body gets adjusted to it.dutasteride has not been tested yet even though there are a few who claim success and no sides with it.I wouldn't go anywhere near it and BTW I take only a mild dosage of finasteride.

 

[Hoppi]

Some interesting responses

Some bits and bobs I don't agree with but some stuff I do!

Yeah monty that sucks what finasteride did to you. I do think you should have been more careful man but on the flip side I think it is wrong that there are not more warnings on the packaging of finasteride. This is why I am working so hard on equol!

Joshua, regarding mega-tek, I try to keep regrowth and maintaining as two separate things, so at the moment maintaining is my goal and then regrowth I will do later (I may be already end up getting it from the DHT inhibition, etc).

I dunno, this all seems like a very logical internal approach to me to get results with a reduced chance of sexual sides, or at least reduced chance of permanent sexual sides, but time will tell eh?

Like I say, if s-eq proves successful as I hope and believe it probably will, I will switch to that probably 100%. Let's hope it lives up to it's previous promise!

 

[nickypoos]

So Monty let me get this straight... you took dutasteride for 7 years, with no sides and then you came off dutasteride and experienced sides? That doesn't make any sense to me. Or are you saying you got sides throughout the seven years, stopped taking dutasteride and still have sides six months down the road? If it is this case than, seven years of dutasteride build up in your system is certainly isn't going to disappear in six months, along with your own mental judgments of your libido. (Placebo + Natural age libido loss)

A question to Hoppi, how can you claim black tea reduces DHT levels by 70% with no side effects? If DHT is reduced with finasteride, black tea, horse sh*t mixed with vinegar or whatever else you’re using, if it's a 5ar-reducates inhibitor it's going to give you side effects from the natural raise in estrogens whatever you’re taking to lower DHT. If you’re so scared of finasteride, why not be scared of the natural stuff, if you’re going to sides from finasteride, you’re going to get sides from any natural crap. Otherwise the natural crap isn't working so you may as well save your money and take a low dose of finasteride.