I Find People Keep Repeating In This Forum Between Now And Ten Years Ago

[lbrobinho]

I recently joined this forum, and use goole search system to search threads that I am interested in, I find many thing is not different with ten years ago, I search the thread in 2003, they talked about finasteride, gyno, libido, minoxidil, and now, people here are still talking same thing.

What the hell? When I was a child, people were using same regiments with now, technology seems to never get developed in about 20 years. According to this tendency, I have reason to believe people will be still complaining about side effect from finasteride in this forum after ten years.

But everything makes sense because some diseases such as cancer , AIDS are still invincible, comparing with these diseases, hair loss is not even a disease and never can be called disease. Hair loss never bother someone's physical health but mental health.

I am not sure can I see the new potent and no side effect drug for hair loss when I am alive.

 

[manda]

that's bc nothing new happened in the meantime. Same shitty treatments and options. We could shut down this forum bc there's already enough info available for any kind of topic.

But well if we do so, then all these kids won't have an opportunity to cry about their hairloss, pussying about starting with medications and get suicidal thoughts bc of their hairloss

 

[HLV]

I recently joined this forum, and use goole search system to search threads that I am interested in, I find many thing is not different with ten years ago, I search the thread in 2003, they talked about finasteride, gyno, libido, minoxidil, and now, people here are still talking same thing.

What the hell? When I was a child, people were using same regiments with now, technology seems to never get developed in about 20 years. According to this tendency, I have reason to believe people will be still complaining about side effect from finasteride in this forum after ten years.

But everything makes sense because some diseases such as cancer , AIDS are still invincible, comparing with these diseases, hair loss is not even a disease and never can be called disease. Hair loss never bother someone's physical health but mental health.

I am not sure can I see the new potent and no side effect drug for hair loss when I am alive.

When I started treating hair loss thirteen years ago the only real proven treatments were finasteride, minoxidil, and transplant. These are still the only real treatments. there are other treatments that can be used such as dutasteride etc but these have not passed the FDA trials for hair loss. For unknown reasons the FDA trials to approve dutasteride for hair loss were halted in phase III.

Having tried most treatments over the years, and observed the forums, the majority not using the standard approved treatments just end up losing hair. that does not mean there will be some individuals who are able to halt hair loss without them, but they are in the minority.

With today’s medical advancements I think it’s important to realize there are enough drugs available to guarantee to stop your hair loss. The problem in this age isn’t can you stop hairloss, the problem is can you stop hairloss while tolerating the side effects of the drugs. There are extreme drugs which will stop hairloss guaranteed, but the side effects for most are not tolerable. Finasteride and minoxidil in studies were shown to be well tolerated by the majority, which is why they are FDA approved.

I find the forums have become a far more negative place than they used to be. People attacking each other, people claiming finasteride is useless even though they have only been on it a few months etc. it is unfortunately overall a far more negative place than it used to be. One thing that hasn’t changed however is people freaking out in the first few months of treatments and posting on here every day convinced they can’t be saved. I was guilty of the exact same thing when I started as were many others, but trying to speak as objectively as possible, the majority will be just fine, and the studies confirm that.

I think while a lot of people think the treatments that are able now are useless, which they are most definitely not, it might perhaps be better for people now to appreciate that they live in the age where you actually have treatments for hairloss. While there is more improvement needed in treating hairloss, had you been losing hair about 30 years ago you would have actually had nothing. No finasteride, no minoxidil, no dutasteride, no experimental treatments like RU, SMP , very unacceptable transplant results, no support forums, nothing. You either wore a wig or that is it. While people are talking about how desperate they are these days that there is nothing, maybe it’s not a bad idea to take a step back appreciate that there are treatments now, and take a moment to think about those who actually had nothing not too long ago.


HLV

 

[karatekid]

But everything makes sense because some diseases such as cancer , AIDS are still invincible, comparing with these diseases, hair loss is not even a disease and never can be called disease. Hair loss never bother someone's physical health but mental health.

I am not sure can I see the new potent and no side effect drug for hair loss when I am alive.

So mental health isnt that important like physical? mental illness is not a disease?

 

[Ikarus]

If I’m being honest, the only interesting threads on this website revolve around potent anti-androgens and HRT... Threads about finasteride/dutasteride is just beating the dead horse decades after it passed at this point...

 

[Hairicane]

If I’m being honest, the only interesting threads on this website revolve around potent anti-androgens and HRT... Threads about finasteride/dutasteride is just beating the dead horse decades after it passed at this point...

I can't get any information on finasteride anyway. There's a ton of stuff on side effects, or simply "It works" or "It doesn't work" but not much info on how and why and what to expect when you're taking it.

Even my doctor didn't explain much, his demeanor left me with the impression that I'd simply take this pill every day and my hair loss would probably stop.

 

[HLV]

I can't get any information on finasteride anyway. There's a ton of stuff on side effects, or simply "It works" or "It doesn't work" but not much info on how and why and what to expect when you're taking it.

Even my doctor didn't explain much, his demeanor left me with the impression that I'd simply take this pill every day and my hair loss would probably stop.

that’s simply what happens for the majority of people who take it. That doesnt mean you won’t have ups and downs in the first year, shedding hair hair looks thinner etc, but for the majority of people they were above baseline after ten years in the studies.

To put it another way, you won’t start with finasteride at Norwood II and end up a Norwood IV while taking it. It just doesn’t happen regardless what people on the forums claim. the ten year studies don’t show it and in the 13 years since I treated hairloss I have never seen a documented case once.

Of course, if this has occurred to anyone please provide picture as it will be the first time I have seen it and it will go against personal experience and the numerous objective studies conducted over the years.

If you have any further questions or require clarification Hairicane, please do not hesitate to ask.

HLV

 

[INT]

To put it another way, you won’t start with finasteride at Norwood II and end up a Norwood IV while taking it. It just doesn’t happen regardless what people on the forums claim. the ten year studies don’t show it and in the 13 years since I treated hairloss I have never seen a documented case once.

You can.

 

[HLV]

You can.

Kindly provide any links or documented cases you have come across INT. I am genuinely interested in seeing this as it contradicts the numerous studies done over the years and personal experience.

HLV

 

[INT]

Kindly provide any links or documented cases you have come across INT. I am genuinely interested in seeing this as it contradicts the numerous studies done over the years and personal experience.

HLV

Even the official finasteride studies show that it does not work for everyone. I obviously do not save every finasteride case I come across in the internet but in my decade of being on hairloss forums I have seen many cases where the balding process still continues, just on a much slower pace and for some people it does not work at all. If you are destined to be a NW7 but get on finasteride while being a Norwood 2 I think being a decade or 2 later with a NW4 is still pretty good.

Finasteride works for a lot of people, that is not the issue. It is the side effect profile that is causing more concerns regarding the drug.

 

[Hairicane]

that’s simply what happens for the majority of people who take it. That doesnt mean you won’t have ups and downs in the first year, shedding hair hair looks thinner etc, but for the majority of people they were above baseline after ten years in the studies.

To put it another way, you won’t start with finasteride at Norwood II and end up a Norwood IV while taking it. It just doesn’t happen regardless what people on the forums claim. the ten year studies don’t show it and in the 13 years since I treated hairloss I have never seen a documented case once.

Of course, if this has occurred to anyone please provide picture as it will be the first time I have seen it and it will go against personal experience and the numerous objective studies conducted over the years.

If you have any further questions or require clarification Hairicane, please do not hesitate to ask.

HLV

I appreciate you HLV, you give good clear and concise answers.

One question I have is about the original trial Merck did for Propecia in the 90s. The group receiving Propecia the entire time started out with over 500 men in it but when the study ended five years later there were only 219 participating. Why'd all those guys drop out? If the drug was effective and well tolerated you'd think most balding men would opt to keep their hair.

 

[HLV]

Even the official finasteride studies show that it does not work for everyone. I obviously do not save every finasteride case I come across in the internet but in my decade of being on hairloss forums I have seen many cases where the balding process still continues, just on a much slower pace and for some people it does not work at all. If you are destined to be a NW7 but get on finasteride while being a Norwood 2 I thinku being a decade or 2 later with a NW4 is still pretty good.

Finasteride works for a lot of people, that is not the issue. It is the side effect profile that is causing more concerns regarding the drug.

Of course Finasteride 1mg does work for the majority of people, but as stated there will always be a minority. Of course that last sentence immediately causes worry and depression as people believe that they are in fact in the minority.

With that being said, and I appreciate you will not save every case of finasteride you come across, I simply haven’t seen anyone start at a Norwood II and progress to a Norwood IV. I am not saying there are not cases of it somewhere, I am simply staying i have never seen it, at least not since 2008.

I do not know the outcome after ten years as I believe we only have the ten year studies but someone balding to that extent within a matter of a few years with Finastride 1MG is just something I have not across.

Taking a step out of the forums and real life, everyone I have seen on finasteride, does not go bald taking finasteride. As you stated however, the issue isn’t the effectiveness but the side effects which can occur in some individuals.

HLV

 

[Hairicane]

Even the official finasteride studies show that it does not work for everyone. I obviously do not save every finasteride case I come across in the internet but in my decade of being on hairloss forums I have seen many cases where the balding process still continues, just on a much slower pace and for some people it does not work at all. If you are destined to be a NW7 but get on finasteride while being a Norwood 2 I think being a decade or 2 later with a NW4 is still pretty good.

Finasteride works for a lot of people, that is not the issue. It is the side effect profile that is causing more concerns regarding the drug.

If you make it to 44 and you're a 3 vertex without any treatment at all, do you think finasteride will maintain your 3 vertex for another decade?

 

[HLV]

If you’re 44 and Norwood 3, you’re general outlook in terms of keep your hair is a million times more positive that someone starting to go bald in their teenage years which unfortunately does occur.

if you’re 44 with a Norwood 3 AND on finasteride 1MG you will not go bald Hairicane. Worst case scenario Finasteride doesn’t keep all your hair you can have a transplant to replace anything you have lost.

I am aware I seem to be speaking like I am absolutely sure in the last paragraph something I generally don’t do as every individual is different, but being 44 and going bald while taking finasteride 1MG logically doesn’t happen. Again I’d be interested to see, not hear, cases where it has.

The forums are a great place for information but they do not agree with the real world, where people take Finasteride 1MG and keep most of what they have.


HLV

 

[HLV]

I appreciate you HLV, you give good clear and concise answers.

One question I have is about the original trial Merck did for Propecia in the 90s. The group receiving Propecia the entire time started out with over 500 men in it but when the study ended five years later there were only 219 participating. Why'd all those guys drop out? If the drug was effective and well tolerated you'd think most balding men would opt to keep their hair.

The general rule is that there will always be participants that opt out of trials for various reasons. You are correct that in that study it would make sense that these men would continue. I know that a portion of those men opted out because they were not pleased with the results and considered it ineffective in their cases.

Of course the ten year Study by Rossie indicated that 86 percent continued to benefit from Finasteride 1MG, and only 14 percent experienced worsening hairloss.

HLV

 

[INT]

If you make it to 44 and you're a 3 vertex without any treatment at all, do you think finasteride will maintain your 3 vertex for another decade?

Impossible to predict

 

[Hairicane]

The general rule is that there will always be participants that opt out of trials for various reasons. You are correct that in that study it would make sense that these men would continue. I know that a portion of those men opted out because they were not pleased with the results and considered it ineffective in their cases.

Of course the ten year Study by Rossie indicated that 86 percent continued to benefit from Finasteride 1MG, and only 14 percent experienced worsening hairloss.

HLV

But there is a catch in the Rossi study, most men who lose hair will quit in a years long span so of course 80%+ after a long term will benefit or maintain. There is no mention to of whether that was accounted for in some way.

I always feel really good about finasteride and my chances until I start wondering about these things.

The anecdotes here and on other forums seem to indicate a 50/50 efficacy rate, of course that doesn't match up with the science, but going back to the five year study I mentioned earlier where about half receiving Propecia dropped out, you account for the dropouts and suddenly the discrepancy makes sense.

And I'll admit I'm a pessimist too.

 

[Hairicane]

Impossible to predict

I was hoping making it well into middle age with s pretty good amount of hair meant I'm not terribly sensitive to dht and thus more likely to benefit.

 

[HLV]

But there is a catch in the Rossi study, most men who lose hair will quit, so of course 80%+ will benefit or maintain.

I always feel really good about finasteride and my chances until I start wondering about these things.

The anecdotes here and on other forums seem to indicate a 50/50 efficacy rate, of course that doesn't match up with the science, but going back to the five year study I mentioned earlier where about half receiving Propecia dropped out, you account for the dropouts and suddenly the discrepancy makes sense.

And I'll admit I'm a pessimist too.

Everyone is when starting to treat hairloss otherwise they would not be on these forums. You’re here partly or mostly because you’re trying to figure out if finasteride will work for you and stop you going bald. I strongly believe it will.

HLV

 

[Hairicane]

Everyone is when starting to treat hairloss otherwise they would not be on these forums. You’re here partly or mostly because you’re trying to figure out if finasteride will work for you and stop you going bald. I strongly believe it will.

HLV

Fingers crossed.