Hyperandrogenicity and Hairloss FROM Finasteride!!!!!

Rabid

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If you're not experiencing those dreaded side effects from finasteride, and it isn't doing a damn thing for your hairloss (for months I thought I was simply receiving bad pills), perhaps you are suffering from a condition so simple and obvious, it's explained in the basic FAQ on this website, yet there seems to be very little discussion elsewhere. I seriously urge everyone to think about the concept of reflex hyperandrogenicity. The FAQ explains it pretty damn quickly and well enough. If the concept of up and down-regulation of receptors makes perfect intuitive sense, which it does, then this concept makes as much sense as anything else posted on this site.

Let me know if these questions have previously been discussed, but is it possible that those who continue to lose hair on finasteride, and especially the ones who claim to get worse, (such as myself- been on 9 months, hair worsening exponentially over past 6) are experiencing a sub-clinical hyperandrogenicity? This concept could explain why side effects often disappear over time, as they did in my case. My sides-effects were terrible, but waned and mostly vanished after a month or two. I'm not saying you couldn't still have reflex hyperand. if you have side effects.

Could reflex hyperandrogenicity be quietly accounting for a significant percentage of the perceived “finasteride sheds� Are there any studies that prove such a "finasteride shed" even truly exists? If so, please post them, because virtually all hairloss sufferers seem to put great faith in this concept. (If it does, than perhaps it's a temporary reflex hyperandrogenicity that successful users are able to eventually counteract?) Obviously, there are countless satisfied finasteride. users out there, and many of them testify to the shed, so I'm not denying it works for them, perhaps most successful users. However, it seems like people could have easily started spinning ideas to convince one another that the drug would eventually start working and said if there’s a minoxidil. shed, and minoxidil. works, why not just assume that any long-term hairloss treatment could cause sheds? Surely Merck wouldn’t mind if users believed this, as people wouldn’t quit treatment right away. Interesting though that Merck doesn’t report this as a side effect, to my knowledge. That seems very fishy. Moreover, Dr. Rassman (He seems to be well respected from what I've seen) writes that he very rarely sees such finasteride. sheds in practice, despite all the hype on these hairloss forums. It’s extremely easy to see why this concept would get so much hype, why something could be so loathed and dreaded, yet such a welcome relief (because that’s a sign that it’s working!), depending on where one happens to find themselves flailing in their own hairgrowth/hairloss cycle.

Now, I’ve read some posts that seem to indicate a true clinical hyperand., but these cases seem very rare. The distinguishing feature there seems to be that the scalp becomes very inflamed and painful. Those people lose hair very quickly. But what about the rest of us who could possibly have subclinical cases, meaning no overt physical symptoms, except for hairloss. Couldn’t that be possible? For instance, I don’t seem to have any more acne or oily skin than usual. I do have increased libido, and increased facial hair. This brings me to my next point. Do not most people think of finasteride as decreasing libido? Yet there are wide ranging reports of increased libido. What causes this? True, there are certainly sexual side effects, but these evidently need not necessarily decrease libido.

Anyhow, just because I don’t have the acne/oily skin/other symptoms, why does that mean I cannot still have a mild case of hyperandrogenicity? Given the extreme sensitivity of hair follicles to the damaging effect of DHT in those with male pattern baldness such as myself, it seems like the hair might rather be the thing most easily affected by small hormonal fluctuations. The point many have made I think is that hairloss would only occur after obvious symptoms of hyperandr. occur in someone taking finasteride., because hair follicles would be much more resistant because of the DHT blocking effect of the drug. This point is very important, and must be examined. I wonder if this DHT blocking continues to remain successful even when the sensitivity and number of DHT receptors has greatly increased as with reflex hyperandr.? Again, my question is, how do we know that acne or oily skin would be evident before hairloss. I hope there’s a simple answer to this, but right now I’m really wondering if those who are trying to help their hairloss but not responding to finasteride. are not responding because of a reflex DHT receptor upregulation resulting in mild, relatively undetectable hyperandrogenicity, which always leads in the other direction to hairloss?

If so, how would you reverse it without quitting finasteride?
 

nick21521

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Your story is exactly the same as mine. Increased libido, oily skin etc. I started finasteride at the very beginning stages of hairloss. I was at NW1 and started noticing increased shedding, but still had a full head of hair. I probably wouldn't have bothered with finasteride if it wasn't for the fact that ever single male i am related to has significant hairloss by age 30.

After exactly one week i noticed increased shedding. Naturally, i thought this was a good thing, but it only got worse. after about 4 months it got really bad where i would run a comb through my hair into the sink maybe 10 times and get 70 hairs. At first it was all thick hair (because that's all i had when i started) but progressively got thinner and thinner. One interesting thing i noticed on some hairs (about 1-2 inches long) was that i could see the hair getting gradually thinner from the cut end down to the root, and in some hairs, the first half of the hair would be thick, and there would be a sharp dropoff in thickness where the thick half would just end and the rest of the hair would be thin. Weird, i know. I'm not imagining it because i had people verify this for me.

Anyway, after about 8 months i couldn't take the shedding anymore and i had lost at least 1/3 of the hair on my head so i decided to stop. I read that stopping cold turkey is a bad idea because your hormones have to adjust so i when to half dose (taking 1.25 every other day). This is where it gets weirder. As soon as i went on a half dose my scalp started itching badly (which it didnt do before on full dose) and never stopped itching for the 5 months i was on half dose. During this time the shedding stayed about the same. Also switching to half dose eliminated the increased libido and oily skin.

Now i've been off finasteride completely for the last 3 months and have noticed pretty much no change at all. Still itching, still losing the same amount.

Its like starting finasteride triggered my hairloss to start, and now there's nothing i can do about it, since finasteride obviously doesn't work, and now that i'm off it for 3 months, it isn't getting any better.

Im toying with the idea of getting back to half dose now that i've had a chance to let my hormones reset.
 

Rabid

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Dude, I feel your pain. Everything’s so bad at this point I’m going to just ride things out on finasteride (+ minoxidil) for better or worse, until at least the 1 year mark, probably more. Sounds like there are those few who don’t see results until well past 12 months, and then they eventually grow back to and surpass their baseline. I’ll fly straight to India and kiss In-House’s *** if that happens. Did any of the people whose finasteride didn’t work until 1 year have signs of reflex hyperandrogenicity for the first year? ANYONE??????

If you’re itching with or without finasteride, why not just stay on finasteride. Have you tried Nizeral shampoo for the itch? I just started and already love that stuff. That’s great that half dose reduced the oily skin and libido. Half dose is probably much better than no dose. On the other hand, it does sound like you lost a hell of a lot. I thought I lost a hell of a lot, but you probably lost more. I wish someone on here who knew about this would help us out. I’m sure a lot of folks do. It seems to me your symptoms match those of reflex HA with the amount of hair lost in such a short time, as well as the extremely itchy scalp. 1/3 of hair is much worse than a typical shed, I believe. Why not mix things up and start minoxidil. Just pour it all over and hope for the best. What have you got to lose? Does your scalp look bad, like it’s inflamed? Since your hairloss is so recent, it seems like minoxidil might work well, but check with someone else (ideally a doctor) to be sure that idea is sound.

Do you have increased facial or body hair? That does not seem like a normal response to finasteride. Does increased body and facial hair mean a person has reflex HA? PLEASE, ANYONE????!!!!!! Which is better, riding things out on finasteride, or taking a brief finasteride holiday and restarting???
 

RapidRetreat

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Hey guys I know this is an old thread but I was wondering how it was coming along? I think I have this no matter what I do I keep shedding!
 
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