How many grafts would I need for good density?

[M.G]

21 years old. 6 ½ months on finasteride (longer on minoxidil and keto 2%). Hairloss seems kinda stabilized at the moment.


I'm probably gonna see dr. Erdogan soon for a consultation. I've read that he occasionally uses more grafts than necessary, but that he's great at what he does.


I wanna know you peoples opinion on approximately what number of grafts it would take to get good enough density (=not see-through).


My hair is very diffused all over, especially at my crown and hairline.


I want my Norwood 1 hairline back and atleast fill in most of my crown. A bit on the midscalp too for density.


What should my expectations be?

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I may add that my mid-scalp hair isn't as thick as it looks on the pics. It's very much thin in real life.

 

[buckthorn]

Filling in that crown is risky as all hell imo. IF you decide to go for it then 1) make sure you have TOTAL confidence in your stability with finasteride and minoxidil. 2) find a Doctor with a solid track record with DPA patients. That can provide pics and allow you to meet with former patients in real life. Erdogan just may be the man for the job. I think he's a solid Doctor.

IF stable, then I do believe you can achieve good results with your temples/hairline. imo you would need about 2000-2500 to modestly fill them in and create a hairline with decent density. You will not achieve a NW1 without exhausting your donor. So, please don't get greedy like I did! For the crown, I personally wouldn't touch it for another year or so you can truly gauge your results with finasteride. good luck!

 

[blondi]

man, if I were I would buzz that wiry stuff off real quick. I think it would look a lot better shorter.

 

[M.G]

Filling in that crown is risky as all hell imo. IF you decide to go for it then 1) make sure you have TOTAL confidence in your stability with finasteride and minoxidil. 2) find a Doctor with a solid track record with DPA patients. That can provide pics and allow you to meet with former patients in real life. Erdogan just may be the man for the job. I think he's a solid Doctor.

IF stable, then I do believe you can achieve good results with your temples/hairline. imo you would need about 2000-2500 to modestly fill them in and create a hairline with decent density. You will not achieve a NW1 without exhausting your donor. So, please don't get greedy like I did! For the crown, I personally wouldn't touch it for another year or so you can truly gauge your results with finasteride. good luck!

Thanks for your answer.

I haven't lost anything on my crown in these 6 ½ months. I actually think I've gained a bit. If I'm doing a transplant with Erdogan then I'm probably doing it in January/February next year. By then I would've been on finasteride for about 14-15 months and hairloss would hopefully be fully stabilized and perhaps some lucky regrowth.

My hairline is my nr.1 concern. That's most important to me. If I can't reach a norwood 1, then I atleast want to lower it a bit and get some density.

Your estimation of 2000-2500 seems reasonable.

But why is crown more risky than the hairline?

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man, if I were I would buzz that wiry stuff off real quick. I think it would look a lot better shorter.

It looks like crap on photos.

In real life I use Toppik and it looks alot better.

 

[FWIW]

Erdogan will quote you like 4500 grafts imo.

 

[M.G]

Damn, thats gonna be alot of money.

I think I can spend money for like 3000-3500 grafts.

 

[buckthorn]

Thanks for your answer.

I haven't lost anything on my crown in these 6 ½ months. I actually think I've gained a bit. If I'm doing a transplant with Erdogan then I'm probably doing it in January/February next year. By then I would've been on finasteride for about 14-15 months and hairloss would hopefully be fully stabilized and perhaps some lucky regrowth.

My hairline is my nr.1 concern. That's most important to me. If I can't reach a norwood 1, then I atleast want to lower it a bit and get some density.

Your estimation of 2000-2500 seems reasonable.

But why is crown more risky than the hairline?

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It looks like crap on photos.

In real life I use Toppik and it looks alot better.

Take it from me - transplanting around native hair is risky. 1) you have the possibility of transection (surgeon cutting though existing follicles when creating recipient sites) and 2) perhaps most importantly - you have the very real risk of "shock loss" or Telogen Effluvium resulting from trauma. IF you are not confident in your hair regrowing, then you will end up like me... a recipient area in which transplanted hairs have completely taken over and native hairs are gone forever.

Hair line is less risky because you don't have any native hair there to transect. HOWEVER, you can still get Telogen Effluvium ALL OVER THE HEAD, from a transplant in one local area... THIS is what happened to me and THIS is why you need to be confident of regrowing hair on anti androgens. Not trying to scare you. I just WISH I had knowleadge of this before I had my transplant.

 

[Mach]

At 21 I would see how finasteride treats you. I wouldn't go the hair transplant route. I know that's not what you asked for.

 

[MrDepressed]

What does exactly "native" hair mean? I know it sounds dumb but when I try to research "native hair" on google it didn't help me define anything

 

[FWIW]

Damn, thats gonna be alot of money.

I think I can spend money for like 3000-3500 grafts.

You dont have to go for that amount, but he is know for overestimating in order to have good result. 3000 should give you what you want. As buck says, the crown is tricky. You might loose native hairs tht are already weakened. You are young for hair transplant.

 

[Propecia1mg]

About the shock loss, the surgeon who did the FUT to me said before the operation that it´s very rare and he has had just one patient who experienced that, and even in that case the loss wasn´t permanent. But if there´s genetically weak hair and that drops, it´s possible that in that case it´s permanent. So? That would have happened sooner or later (maybe not if using finasteride/dutasteride). You can always to take another FUT operation to fill the blanks later, if necessary. With FUE technique you have more limited number of operations to be possible to do.

The possible shock loss happens 2-3months after the operation. If you notice in that time frame that those "old" hairs doesn´t grow, you can assume to lose them at least for a while, I would think.

 

[M.G]

You dont have to go for that amount, but he is know for overestimating in order to have good result. 3000 should give you what you want. As buck says, the crown is tricky. You might loose native hairs tht are already weakened. You are young for hair transplant.

I see.

Dr. Erdogan will be in Stockholm in June for consultations. I just sent him an email to get on the list for consultations, with some pics. Let see if he gives me an approximate already now.

I know Im young but I havent had hair to style for a decade without worrying if people can see through my hair (started losing around 11 years old). I never had a chance in my teens.

I atleast wanna go through my 20s with some happiness and not wake up every morning applying Toppik, where depending how "good" i fix my hairline determines how happy I will be that day...

 

[oye_rg]

Buddy listen to me. Then its upto you to take it or ignore it it's your life after all. Do not go for a hair transplant now. Stay on treatments (Min , finasteride and Keto + anything else you like).
Give it another year or more. Then decide. I am 90% sure you will gain a lot of hair back. Just be consistent patient and dedicated.

If you go for hair transplant now you will be stealing from your future for the present and its not needed, and also lose in the process. So like stealing 100 but getting 50.

Get a shorter haircut during this time.

Sorry maybe not what you asked or want to hear.

 

[M.G]

Buddy listen to me. Then its upto you to take it or ignore it it's your life after all. Do not go for a hair transplant now. Stay on treatments (Min , finasteride and Keto + anything else you like).
Give it another year or more. Then decide. I am 90% sure you will gain a lot of hair back. Just be consistent patient and dedicated.

If you go for hair transplant now you will be stealing from your future for the present and its not needed, and also lose in the process. So like stealing 100 but getting 50.

Get a shorter haircut during this time.

Sorry maybe not what you asked or want to hear.

I figure I can gain alot in the crown. I just started seeing progress there.

But I'm doubtful about the hairline. I honestly don't think it's possible for me to have enough of a satisfying result there.

Depending on my progress til beginning of next year, I will decide if I will have one or not. By then I would've been on treatments for more than 14 months.

If I show promise, I may hold out for an operation until the summer next year. If not, then most probably around january/february.

 

[oye_rg]

I figure I can gain alot in the crown. I just started seeing progress there.

But I'm doubtful about the hairline. I honestly don't think it's possible for me to have enough of a satisfying result there.

Depending on my progress til beginning of next year, I will decide if I will have one or not. By then I would've been on treatments for more than 14 months.

If I show promise, I may hold out for an operation until the summer next year. If not, then most probably around january/february.

So you're doing all right then...I was worried about you doing something impromptu and regretting it later. I would suggest that you monitor it and hold fire until its improving or holding the same. Only jump the gun when you are absolutely certain you are clearly losing ground for 3 months. 3 months because you can feel up and down weeks while actually its just illusion so 3 months gives you a certainty of the direction you are going and also takes care of any temporary sheds.

I can share my experience with big3 to give you an idea of timelines (and I am diffuse).
5-6 months: notice first sign of anything happening at all
8-12 months: nice progress on crown and top (nothing on harline/temples yet except vellus)
12-14 months: hairline/temples finally waking up with tiny but black hair showing. These are now getting stronger albeit very very slowly. I expect another year for them to become cosmetically significant

The key is patience and consistency. You may not get these results or you may but please take an irreversible step only after you find this out. We only have as many follicles on our heads. If you go for hair transplant now you are killing your dormant follicles which may have a chance and losing them forever.



While on it remember to be consistent, patient and dedicated and try not to get influenced by docs with vested interests. All the best!

 

[greg711711]

I would be weary of any doctor that would agree to transplant your crown at age 21. Most will not even consider it until 35, others usually at least 30. I was in your exact situation with similar hair loss a few years ago when I was 21. It is very frustrating to have crown loss in your early 20s because there is nothing you can do about it besides pray that meds give some regrowth (they didn't for me). I did however get my hairline transplanted (conservative procedure ~800 grafts) at 22 and it was a drastic improvement. Having a frame around your face is a lifesaver

 

[M.G]

I would be weary of any doctor that would agree to transplant your crown at age 21. Most will not even consider it until 35, others usually at least 30. I was in your exact situation with similar hair loss a few years ago when I was 21. It is very frustrating to have crown loss in your early 20s because there is nothing you can do about it besides pray that meds give some regrowth (they didn't for me). I did however get my hairline transplanted (conservative procedure ~800 grafts) at 22 and it was a drastic improvement. Having a frame around your face is a lifesaver

How old are you today?

Is your transplant holding up well? That is, does the meds keep the hair behind the hairline stabilized?

 

[alex85]

Buddy listen to me. Then its upto you to take it or ignore it it's your life after all. Do not go for a hair transplant now. Stay on treatments (Min , finasteride and Keto + anything else you like).
Give it another year or more. Then decide. I am 90% sure you will gain a lot of hair back. Just be consistent patient and dedicated.

This.

You can plan your future hair transplant now, and save some cash for more grafts, but you don't need any hair transplant at this moment. Just stay on your treatments and be patient.

 

[M.G]

I talked to Dr. Doganays patient advisor and he said if I were to go with them next year it would be 3200 grafts.

 

[arfy]

What does exactly "native" hair mean? I know it sounds dumb but when I try to research "native hair" on google it didn't help me define anything

It means the original un-transplanted hair. The remaining hair in your balding area which hasn't fallen out yet. It can also mean any hair which wasn't transplanted, anywhere else on your head.

I agree that this guy would be taking some risks by getting a hair transplant now. There's a risk of shock loss (general trauma of scalp surgery can accelerate hair loss, as well as direct surgical damage when placing the grafts in the recipient area). The best scenario is when you get a clear and definite "net gain" of hair. There's some risk that he would lose hair too.

IMO he should stay on medications and try to work with what he's got. Re-assess in the future. Looks like he would be headed to Norwood 6 or more, without medication (extensive hair loss) so he should be using medication anyway. Keep doing what you're doing, and if you're lucky you won't need to go the transplant route. Yeah, you want your Norwood 1 hairline back. Everybody else does too. It doesn't happen.