How 'late' could I get regrowth using minoxidil?

[Kirby]

Basically: been using minoxidil foam since last May, daily, have had no regrowth. (Also have used finasteride daily since January 2012.) Can I ever expect any regrowth using minoxidil, or give up?

 

[SayifDoit]

I would give up on the stuff, shouldn't you expect growth in like 6 months, IDK.

Use what you have left and stop buying the stuff, it's only a temporary solution anyway.

Btw did you notice any increased body hair? Isn't that usually the case with minoxdil

 

[Kirby]

So I should give up? Cold turkey or tapered off?

No body hair issues.

 

[The Far Side]

Well things are still "changing" for me 4 months in. I'm using the foam twice a day as indicated, but I was of the impression that wasn't a huge deal (like once a day is 75% as effective), maybe it is and you need to try twice a day? How long is your hair where you are trying to apply the foam? I'm getting it melting on exactly where I want it due to really short hair (not 100% shaved, it says not to do that on the packaging). I believe you're almost at the stage where the product information would say give up if you haven't seen results - then again once daily isn't what the product information advised either, so it's up to you.

Any pictures to document the lack of progress? finasteride wil complicate things though - has it given you results, and how would you decide between finasteride and minoxidil results?

 

[CursedMen]

I suggest you don't stop because it could have saved some of your hair. I also think you should try liquid minoxidil.

 

[Kirby]

Well things are still "changing" for me 4 months in. I'm using the foam twice a day as indicated, but I was of the impression that wasn't a huge deal (like once a day is 75% as effective), maybe it is and you need to try twice a day? How long is your hair where you are trying to apply the foam? I'm getting it melting on exactly where I want it due to really short hair (not 100% shaved, it says not to do that on the packaging). I believe you're almost at the stage where the product information would say give up if you haven't seen results - then again once daily isn't what the product information advised either, so it's up to you.

Any pictures to document the lack of progress? finasteride wil complicate things though - has it given you results, and how would you decide between finasteride and minoxidil results?

I'm not prepared to post pictures. I can assure that I have had NO regrowth, if not gone backwards. Basically I started minoxidil because I'd reached nearly 18 months of daily finasteride use with NO regrowth. The dermatologist I saw in November 2012 said that finasteride does not regrow or "thicken" hair lost by male pattern baldness, so I'd know that any new hairs, if they had occurred, were regrown by minoxidil.

 

[SayifDoit]

I would just stop, you said you've noticed no change.
Just stop using it. Cold turkey. Of course use what you have left. Might as well?

 

[DoctorHouse]

Kirby, are you below baseline? Are you getting worse? If you are staying the same that could mean you are just MAINTAINING or slowed things down. So it just means you are not a great responder but you do respond. You could quit cold turkey and see how well you do too. I have been on and off minoxidil many times. I know I respond to minoxidil but it does make my facial skin look worse. I get a lot of black heads on my forehead. I just quit cold turkey again two days ago to see if my skin improves. If it does, I am done with minoxidil for now. If it does not improve, I will get back on it. Sometimes you have to experiment and get off things just to see if they were doing anything. Just remember the old saying, you will eventually get back to were you would have been if you never used these treatments. So if you are daring, stop the minoxidil first. You might get a big shed. I never did when I would quit. I got little sheds. And besides minoxidil still causes me to shed anyway but I shed nice healthy hairs. Without minoxidil I don't. Remember all minoxidil does it act like a growth stimulant. At least Propecia is interfering with the balding mechanism so its more of gamble to quit.

 

[Kirby]

DH, don't worry wouldn't risk quitting finasteride. It's all we have really, at least for now.

I'm not massively below baseline, if I am, I'm either subtly below or just at baseline. No regrowth is certain though. Definitely not had any luck with minoxidil.

Could minoxidil cause a shed when it is ceased even if it isn't regrowing hair?

I did d*rm*r*ll*ng for over 4 months incidentally, if you were following those threads. Shed loads of blood, regrew not even vellus hair.

BTW, here's an account for you to think about DH. I've noticed recently when looking at old photos that my loss started way earlier than I thought, I was NW2 by 2006, about the same hairline I have now but with really better density all over, and thinning was starting to be visible later end of 2007. I 'noticed' the balding in late 2011, and it was objectively very very slow moving before I started finasteride. Could that offer a clue to my non response to medication? (I don't mind posting some photo evidence if that'd help.)

 

[jamesrav2]

I would keep on, if they sell a cheap generic liquid 5% minoxidil, it's foolish to not use that once a day. You might try Retin-A + the minoxidil.

 

[DoctorHouse]

Kirby, you have to factor in the fact that your speed of hair loss could have been the same if you never went on finasteride. Unfortunately, like I said you cannot know what is happening unless you quit cold turkey. A few people have claimed after they quit finasteride, not much changed. However, most people who quit minoxidil complain of major sheds. So here is why. finasteride is not famous for showing massive REGROWTH but it is famous for slowing things down or stabilizing hair loss. It never stops working. However, if your genetics are strong, you will bald regardless. It is NO cure. Minoxidil, on the other hand, ONLY stimulates growth and causes more hairs to grow at the same time. So its like a time machine for growth. Once you no longer use minoxidil, the time machine is no longer in motion so you revert back to your previous hair cycles which will involve a major shed to resync. However, if you were a poor responder to minoxidil, I doubt you are going to get a massive shed and maybe not notice much change. Most people respond well to minoxidil so that is why you hear more about the dreaded shed.

I can definitely tell you when I started finasteride, I never got regrowth. As a matter of fact I fell below baseline and NEVER returned to baseline. After 9 years on finasteride, I am now significantly below baseline. I took the genetic testing for finasteride and it did say I would be a poor responder so I guess it was right. Maybe you are too. Supposedly, I have read that dutasteride is slightly different and with that I could be a better responder but I am not willing to risk it yet. You remember the case where there was a guy on finasteride for four years with no regrowth. He then added dutas once a week and got significant REGROWTH. What does that tell you? Maybe dutasteride could better for some people than finasteride.

I said this before and I will say it again, just think as minoxidil and finasteride as your insurance policy to protect your hair and buy you some faith that you are at least doing something that has been proven to slow down hair loss. Something is better than nothing. That is why I chose to keep taking finasteride after I tested a poor responder. Just remember you can always quit cold turkey, and see if you stay the same after one year. The first 6 months don't count, as they are just the time you need before your hair cycles return to where they would have been without treatment.

As james said, you can always go once per day to see how you do. If things get worse you know you responded. Or start to slowing wean off of it. A hair transplant once told me as long as you stay proactive and use finasteride and minoxidil and he liked PRP too and LLT too, you are doing all you can to save your hair. If you don't care if you lose it, then don't bother with any of this stuff.

 

[Kirby]

Yeah, you're quite right, without stopping finasteride I won't be able to know as to whether my hair loss would progress without it - and honestly, I really don't think it would've progressed much differently (as in faster) if at all. I think around age 23 or 24 my hair loss kicked in, I went NW1 to NW2 and lost a lot of density, particularly on the crown, in a short amount of time, and the loss since then has been glacial. I don't think it's worth the risk of going without finasteride to find out though, if I get catch up loss of some sort.

I know there's dutasteride, true, and honestly, if it was licensed for hair loss treatment, I'd be on it already. Thing is, it's difficult enough to get finasteride legitimately prescribed over here, and in practice dutasteride is a real no-no unless I was to risk self-medicating with medication acquired illegally, which I don't for various reasons. If or when things chance and I can get it legally, I will get on it ASAP, unless something better comes along in the mean time.

It's all very frustrating as I've done big 3 for a while now, and in reality, I wouldn't need that much regrowth to be satisfied - I know the limitations of the medications for responders, and some modest regrowth to thicken up my hair would do me fine for the time being. I can live with being NW2ish, it's just the lack of density, the permanently flat and thin hair on top, that bothers me.

Do you think that it's worth seeing if I respond to liquid minoxidil, or does my lack of regrowth with the foam mean that minoxidil just doesn't work for me whatever the vehicle?

 

[DoctorHouse]

I have read some cases the vehicle does not matter. In some cases some people feel the liquid can get more into the scalp because of the dropper. The foam is harder to get precisely on the scalp without getting some on the hair. Some just melt the foam and put it on with a dropper. I honestly don't think there is any significant difference between either. You have nothing to lose so try it if you feel like it. I understand how you feel about lack of density. My density has decreased all over too. However, I think if I went back on the foam twice per day that I would improve. As long as I keep my hair short it looks decent enough to not have to get a hair transplant just yet.

 

[Kirby]

Just wondering, are you much below baseline compared to where you started from? I'm concerned that as I'm two and a bit years into finasteride usage, I've only got less than three years before I go well below baseline.

 

[DoctorHouse]

Just wondering, are you much below baseline compared to where you started from? I'm concerned that as I'm two and a bit years into finasteride usage, I've only got less than three years before I go well below baseline.

I just have less density and more recession. I think I have about 15 to 20 percent less density all over, and I receded about half an inch more since I started. I have female pattern balding.

Kirby, if you have the balding gene, there is not much you can do. These medications can only slow the gene down but its not going to stop the balding process from happening even if it goes at snails pace. Age becomes another factor too. Your hair thins with age which is supposedly not the same thing as androgenic alopecia.

 

[Kirby]

I realise that these are just flawed treatments, it's just last year on HLH some people were bigging up a 10 year study about finasteride, saying how it can work for a longer term than widely believed. Many veterens' accounts on hair loss forums say otherwise though.

How long have you been treating your male pattern baldness, incidentally?

 

[DoctorHouse]

At the end of this year will be my 10 year anniversary of starting finasteride. I would say that was when I properly started treating my hair loss. Before that I used Revivogen and the Laser Comb for a few years.

 

[Kirby]

Thanks DH. Had assumed that you were a veteran of that 'vintage'. I do hope that it won't be long before you and I get new, actually working additional treatments into the mix - it is very depressing how limited in terms of scope for regrowth and longer term maintenance the existing stuff is.