Simplest solution is just to buy some s-equol and take it orally or apply it topically. I should be able to dissolve around 1% in my usual topical solution so that is the route I will go.
My current lead for supply is this:
I am in the process of ordering from them. They have quoted 100 grams for $270 USD including shipping. It's a large quantity and the price is a bit steep, but this is basically a few year's supply for me.
At 3 mL of 1% per day, that's 30 mg per day - this will last me almost 10 years for my own use if just used topically. Realistically, I'll just throw out what remains after 2 years or so and order again to maintain a fresh batch.
Certainly much cheaper than seti or other equally experimental agents.
If I decide to start ingesting it, I'd probably want to do around 20 mg a day to start since that's what they used in this study with the following justification:
The dose of S-equol and R-equol used in this study was chosen on the basis of the dose we anticipated would be sufficient to evoke clinical effects in future trials. It was also within the estimated physiologic range for adults that produce equol when consuming soy foods (10), given that the typical average intake of total soy isoflavones is ≈25–50 mg (56–59), of which ≈50% usually represents daidzin or daidzein—the precursors to equol. Dose-response relations were not examined in this study; however, with a single 20-mg dose, perhaps not surprisingly, none of the subjects reported any significant adverse events considered related to its administration, except for one female who reported a headache after taking both enantiomers but not the racemate. Chronic administration of a supplement containing S-(−)equol, produced by incubation of soy germ with the equol-producing bacterium Lactococcus garvieae, was reported to show acceptable tolerance in a group of postmenopausal Japanese women over the dose range 10–30 mg/d.Even if I'm applying it topically and ingesting it, a 100 gram supply would still last me ages. So I'm trying to see if they'll sell me 50 grams. If not I'll just take the 100 grams.
I will get it tested for confirmation and purity as this is important and I have never bought from this retailer before.
The combo of genistein + s-equol could increase the potency of my usual topical quite a bit by adding multiple new mechanisms of action, so this has been a very worthwhile discussion.
S-equol works by neutralizing DHT and by binding to the estrogen receptor a little bit. Those are good things if you can get it active ... but I thought that you already had those angles covered?
How's your forehead by the way? Are you done? Are you satisfied?
You need to use a liposomal vehicle.
you know that if you buy pharma grade sequol from legit known website , price for 1mg varies from 10 to30bucks?
with your supplier price would be 0,0027 for 1mg. there must be something wrong don't you think?
now here is the problem: storage temperature: -20°C Freezer. what about the shipping?
Is Daro more efficacious in lowing T levels than Cyprotone or high dose spironolactone? Sorry if this has been answered before its just that I cant find any comparative studies on this. Thanks
Liposomal vehicles are always best for bio/hormonal treatments. It's not as hard as having to mechanically separate the liposomes from an ethanol/equol solution like brotzu did. Vitamin C cream would actually be perfect, and it's incredibly easy to source.I dont believe that is truly the case. I think its nice that Brotzu is developing a liposomal vehicle as I've hear they can increase penetration, increase localization to the follicle, and reduce systemic absorption. All of those are desirable features.
However i have no patience or interest in trying to develop liposomes myself. It is way above my skill level and from what i understand challenging even for chemists as liposomes will always have a tendency to break down.
Equol is a very small and simple compound. It has a similar structure to many other hormonal compounds which we know can be absorbed very easily through the skin in just cream and gel bases. Equol absorbed very easily from the gut as well on an empty stomach showing it is not hard to get it into the body. I anticipate no difficulties with getting absorption in my usual vehicle.
The only issue i anticipate is that my concentration will be limited to around 1% as it is not strongly soluble. This will mean a total daily dose of around 30 mg directed to the scalp. This may be an ideal dose range by coincidence though, as this is within the normal range of what Japanese people get from their regular diet daily (only all concentrated at the scalp). With this dose then, even if every single mg goes systemic, i am within the safe limits and should notice no side effects and overall only improvements in my general health as equol is linked to several.
I am quite optimistic this is a very good adjunct to add with only possible positives and no significant negatives.
My next angle is working of destroying T levels. Flutamide it shall be.Daro doesn't actually lower T levels at all. That's why it's so desirable for men who want to avoid sexual side effects. Because it doesn't cross the blood brain barrier, it doesn't bind to any of the hormone regulatory centers of the brain (or sexual regulatory centers of the brain), and thus no changes in hormone levels are seen, even when you're on castration level oral doses.
It's a very unique medication. It's the only potent antiandrogen that can claim this.
My next angle is working of destroying T levels. Flutamide it shall be.
Damn that sounds awesome. So basically its a non shitty version of Bica (Bica is shitty for me cause I dont want my T levels raised). I would take this in conjunction with cyprotone acetate, so any T that is produced is rendered mostly useless if its as strong as you are implying in your previous post. Isnt daro still in the clinical trail phase though? Are you taking part in the trail lol?
Damn I feel seriously out nucleared now cause its so stronger than cypro lol. I hope an oral form of the drug is released, it sounds like the dream, I still personally like the fact that cypro actually stops T from being produced so Id still probably take both, I know there is no use for the cypro but I like the fact it fucks my sperm, its like revenge on my balls.
The osteoporosis risk isnt a problem if you take Estrogen right?
Have you completely stopped shedding on the dose you are taking daro right now? Are you seeing some regrowth in the temples?
Dryness is horrible though yeah, I got a lot of dry skin especially when I started HRT, my lips were literally drier than the desert, Im sorry you have to go through your whole body feeling like that. Maybe get a swimming pool and fill it with moisturizer instead of water so its make your still nice and moisturized again
You were still balding on 100mg cypro? Do you think it was from the increased Progesterone and/or Prolactin? Cypro can be a bit 'dirty' yeah, it gave me some really bad depression but for hair its worth it I guess.
Wouldnt oral administration give better results though, topicals seem a bit random to me.
Indeed, you may be correct, but as yet i have not tried the hardest oral AA's, and on the female hairless forums, flutamide is the one with the best response by a country mile. As you yourself have stated, it is simply becoming a process of elimination now. I plan to also trial sulfasalazine incase there be some insidious autoimmune component to all of this, which would make sense given that autoimmune disease is rife throughout my family. Lastly, yes peptides and growth factors.I'm sorry Georgie but I believe with 99.9% certainty after all the anti-androgens you've already tried that you won't be able to solve your hair problems with antiandrogens.
I hope by "next" you mean after fixing your estrogens first. Because I think that's the only thing that's got good odds to turn everything around for you at this stage. And I do think it has good odds. I don't think you'll need to do anything else after fixing the estrogens except maybe some needling and PRP-type therapies to help stimulate recovery once things have at least stabilized.
Spironolactone and Cypro are dirty yeah but they are effective. I got vellus hairs and less shedding on spironolactone alone, I dont know how much cypro is doing except making me even more miserable but it should work too. Shouldnt the fatigue spironolactone was giving you be coming from the low levels of testosterone you had? I too feel constant fatigue and I always have to take breaks when Im walking but Im sure its down to the low T as when I was only taking cypro as an AA together with estradioI still felt this.
The thing I don't like about cypro is that it is a progestin, my libido actually very slightly improves after I take my cypro dose something I never feel with spironolactone, I also feel this on reducing the cypro dose to 25mg so I always like to keep spironolactone as my main AA and cypro as a bonus so it can punish my sperm.
Its great youre getting good results on daro, if it was commercially available Id definitely try it out. Why dont you try adding Estradiol to your regime, it would definitely help you a lot. Maybe try estrogel if you dont want to become like a girl too much? Isnt estradiol much more powerful than equol so you should see better results right?
Forehead reduction is scary as f***, do you have a scar from the surgery hidden by your hair?
Based on my research in this thread, I dont believe estradiol is the ideal estrogen for promoting local scalp hair growth. Estradiol might be ideal if you're looking for a strong systemic estrogen to suppress androgen production. However I am not.
I have been using estriol cream over the counter on my facial skin and hairline with good effect for the past 2 months. Genistein and equol should provide the same tilt towards ER-beta stimulation but with an even greater focus on ER-beta, which in my opinion should make them cleaner for manifesting the positive effects from estrogen signalling without the endocrine disruption. If I am using daro on my scalp, I do not need to suppress my androgens. So I just want the local scalp effect from the estrogens. We will see how equol and genistein do at providing that.
My order for equol has now been placed. My genistein should be here in days.
As for forehead reduction, it has so far gone very well. It is too early to judge the scar but it appears to be healing very well. My surgeon did a very artful job of removing most of my NW2 zones surgically during the process which is part of why my hairline is damn near perfect NW0/1 now. So far the result is excellent though I am still getting used to it.
EDIT: And LotionCrafter won't ship to me for whatever reason. f*** 'em.