How Did Baldness Start?

[Bryan]

Then why is female balding much less prevalent and or severe. Dont they need cool brains too?

Sure, but they don't have the androgens that males do, so they don't have the balding that males do. Remember, balding isn't a hard-and-fast rule that's been carved into stone in human genetics, it's just a general trait that gradually evolved. If it hasn't even fully taken hold (yet) in all males, why would you wonder why it hasn't taken hold (yet) in women?

 

[barcafan]

Then why is female balding much less prevalent and or severe. Dont they need cool brains too?

Sure, but they don't have the androgens that males do, so they don't have the balding that males do. Remember, balding isn't a hard-and-fast rule that's been carved into stone in human genetics, it's just a general trait that gradually evolved. If it hasn't even fully taken hold (yet) in all males, why would you wonder why it hasn't taken hold (yet) in women?

So what if they dont have the androgens that males do? Why would brain cooling require androgens, why couldn't it be some other set of hormones or an entirely unrelated physiological factor that follicles developed a sensitivity to (One Which would result in BOTH sexes having similar balding rates), if brain cooling truly was a major factor of this balding trait, which sounds like hogwash to me.



What do you mean by "If it hasn't even fully taken hold (yet) in all males"

Do you mean the prevalence of balding or do you mean the degree of balding?

Why are some populations more resilient to balding than others? Natives and south Americans come to mind

 

[Bryan]

So what if they dont have the androgens that males do? Why would brain cooling require androgens, why couldn't it be some other set of hormones or an entirely unrelated physiological factor that follicles developed a sensitivity to (One Which would result in BOTH sexes having similar balding rates), if brain cooling truly was a major factor of this balding trait

That's just the specific method that Evolution stumbled upon, to get a particular result that it wanted (excuse me for the flagrant anthropomorphism! ). It's easy for all of us to play "Monday morning quarterback" and think of ways that Evolution could have done something better, but there's really not much point to that.

What do you mean by "If it hasn't even fully taken hold (yet) in all males"

Evolution's process of selecting for balding may not be over. In the same way that we humans gradually lost our fur, our scalp hair may still be on its way out, even if it takes a long time.

Do you mean the prevalence of balding or do you mean the degree of balding?

Both.

Why are some populations more resilient to balding than others? Natives and south Americans come to mind

Dunno. Why are some populations taller or shorter than others? I wouldn't begin to speculate on the reason(s) for the occurrence (or lack thereof) of specific genetic traits in various populations like that.

 

[ali777]

Why are some populations more resilient to balding than others? Natives and south Americans come to mind

I personally subscribe to the idea that some tribes originated from ancestors who didn't have male pattern baldness. Naturally their descendants don't have the same susceptibility to DHT as the others.

Dunno. Why are some populations taller or shorter than others? I wouldn't begin to speculate on the reason(s) for the occurrence (or lack thereof) of specific genetic traits in various populations like that.

Actually, you have to bear in mind that genetic diversity outside Africa is rather new. Some estimates put the number at around 70,000 years. Ie, going back 70,000 years, all the people apart from the native Africans have the same ancestors.

During the Ice Age, in Europe only the people with the mutations that lead to the white skin survived. But if you look at India, you can see that the dark skin survived and spread into Australia, etc... The Aborigines in Australia have a lot in common with the blond Scandinavians.

IMO, the variations in human height are more to do with nurture than nature. Just look at the new generations of Chinese or Indian, the ones that eat Western style diet aren't shorter than the Westerners.

So what if they dont have the androgens that males do?

if brain cooling truly was a major factor of this balding trait, which sounds like hogwash to me.

Have you ever thought why women don't hunt??? It's because they have hair and they can't cool down as we do :whistle:

I'm not being serious... but it's an idea worth considering.. Since the start of civilisation, it's always been the male that goes out to hunt or do the more heavy work. Maybe it is related to the lack of scalp hair???

 

[Nashville Hairline]

Very interesting reading guys..I want to add I think the same questions could asked about beards. I mean, think about it, is there any reason for males to have a beard anymore? I understand there is theories that it evolved as an extension of body hair to keep the face protected from extreme cold and extreme sun.

Nowadays of course it isn't really necessary to have facial hair. Imagine a time where it became cosmetically unacceptable, like male pattern baldness?...guys would be getting laser treatment to have it removed.

 

[Ian Curtis]

Baldness appeared when men first started sporting a moustache.

 

[barcafan]

Very interesting reading guys..I want to add I think the same questions could asked about beards. I mean, think about it, is there any reason for males to have a beard anymore? I understand there is theories that it evolved as an extension of body hair to keep the face protected from extreme cold and extreme sun.

Nowadays of course it isn't really necessary to have facial hair. Imagine a time where it became cosmetically unacceptable, like male pattern baldness?...guys would be getting laser treatment to have it removed.

Guys would just be shaving it like we've been doing forever, lol

 

[ali777]

Very interesting reading guys..I want to add I think the same questions could asked about beards. I mean, think about it, is there any reason for males to have a beard anymore? I understand there is theories that it evolved as an extension of body hair to keep the face protected from extreme cold and extreme sun.

Nowadays of course it isn't really necessary to have facial hair. Imagine a time where it became cosmetically unacceptable, like male pattern baldness?...guys would be getting laser treatment to have it removed.

Well... Some women still like the stubble, beard isn't completely out of the window. My woman gets disappointed when I shave regularly, she asks me to keep a stubble unk:

IMO, secondary sexual characteristics are out there for a reason. My mate, who is 27 was id'ed the other day, he just looks like a kid. He has no secondary sexual characteristics. Someone who is extremely smooth looks childish and woman don't necessarily like that.

Beard, body hair, male pattern baldness, etc are all part of the secondary sexual characteristics and they separate the men from the boys!!!!

 

[Nashville Hairline]

Guys would just be shaving it like we've been doing forever, lol

:woot: they might have to come on forums like this with pictures of their face under flash photography and ask can anyone see a 5 o'clock shadow!

 

[barcafan]

hahahahahaha

 

[BoilerRoom]

I too have always thought this... When you have large amounts of intracellular calcium, you have lower levels of Vitamin D-3. Notice how African men have extremely thick hair and obviously darker skin, while American or English men have thinner hair and lighter skin! Does this mean that African men per say, have stronger bones than American or English men, considering calcium metabolism (meaning, African men have less calcium stored in the tissues and more calcium stored in the bones, where it is meant to be stored)?

Funny you should mention this. John Entine in his book "Taboo" (a sports book) references studies that show African Americans do in fact have denser bones than whites. This is potentially why there have been no significant African American olympic swimmers.

 

[OverMachoGrande]

I too have always thought this... When you have large amounts of intracellular calcium, you have lower levels of Vitamin D-3. Notice how African men have extremely thick hair and obviously darker skin, while American or English men have thinner hair and lighter skin! Does this mean that African men per say, have stronger bones than American or English men, considering calcium metabolism (meaning, African men have less calcium stored in the tissues and more calcium stored in the bones, where it is meant to be stored)?

Funny you should mention this. John Entine in his book "Taboo" (a sports book) references studies that show African Americans do in fact have denser bones than whites. This is potentially why there have been no significant African American olympic swimmers.

Very interesting! Then perhaps there is a correlation!

 

[ali777]

I too have always thought this... When you have large amounts of intracellular calcium, you have lower levels of Vitamin D-3. Notice how African men have extremely thick hair and obviously darker skin, while American or English men have thinner hair and lighter skin! Does this mean that African men per say, have stronger bones than American or English men, considering calcium metabolism (meaning, African men have less calcium stored in the tissues and more calcium stored in the bones, where it is meant to be stored)?

Funny you should mention this. John Entine in his book "Taboo" (a sports book) references studies that show African Americans do in fact have denser bones than whites. This is potentially why there have been no significant African American olympic swimmers.

I thought that was specifically the people from West African origin and not all the Africans???

On the subject of swimming, I think it's more cultural than anything else. One way or another black people choose not to swim.

 

[BoilerRoom]

Ha. This really isn't relevant at all. However, I still think hair loss is a way to absorb more Vitamin D via sunlight.

Say what you will, but I always notice that blonde guys of Northern European heritage tend to have high rates of male pattern baldness.

 

[cuebald]

Every time I see a blonde kid out with his parents, his father is always NW6 bald.

 

[GoldenMane]

Baldness evolved in our primate ancestors, not in humans so all the theories Ivevheard are bunk unless it evolved separately a second time in humans, which I doubt since it hasn't evolved separately in any other mammals. You need to ask why MBP evolved in primates because it didn't evolve in humans.

As for the different frequencies by race, there's an easy answer. The Androgenetic Alopecia genes were unevenly distributed in early man, as man split off into different groups and travelled north and east, the small groups had different frequencies. Perhaps the groups that went to Asia had lower frequencies, and when a small number landed in America, maybe nobody among those founders was a carrier. And the groups that settled in the Middle East and Europe must have had much higher frequencies of the genes in their founders.
Population bottlenecks account for a large part of the racial differences.