Homemade spironolactone or minoxidil topical....

[Cornholio]

In addition to rent and car payments I now essentially have a "Hair Payment." That is the monthly order needed to refill stocks of any hair product in short supply. I am getting tired of this and have started to wonder why I couldn't make my own... Im not sure I would actually do this, but wonder if I could... There are issues of stability and absorption, but I wonder if these could be overcome if batches were made monthly...

It seems that alcohol is the ingredient that helps Dr. Lee's products absorb and dry quickly. For minoxidil at least I have seen studies showing that absorbtion increases in proportion to alcohol content up to 90%.

Is anybody making an alcohol based minoxidil or spironolactone liquid at home? And would you share recipies? (Im guessing 85-90% alcohol, 10-15% water and minoxidil or spironolactone of an unknown quantity)

Does anyone have any reason to think that this would not work?
______________________________________________________

Man is separated from the animals by his desire to take medicine.

 

[Bryan]

It seems that alcohol is the ingredient that helps Dr. Lee's products absorb and dry quickly. For minoxidil at least I have seen studies showing that absorbtion increases in proportion to alcohol content up to 90%.

Yeah, but that wasn't 90% alcohol and 10% water. It was 90% alcohol and 10% propylene glycol (PPG). The PPG is the key to that formula.

Is anybody making an alcohol based minoxidil or spironolactone liquid at home? And would you share recipies? (Im guessing 85-90% alcohol, 10-15% water and minoxidil or spironolactone of an unknown quantity)

I'd lose the water and use PPG instead. Maybe about 2% spironolactone in a 50/50 ethanol/PPG vehicle (or more alcohol/less PPG if you don't like the greasiness). Add a tiny pinch of BHT (about 0.05% to 0.1%) for stability. Use up the solution in a timely manner, and keep it in the fridge.

Bryan

 

[Cornholio]

Thanks : )

Over the years this could save thousands of dollars : ) ...

I think Ill look into seeing how available the solvents are... (PPG)

I hate spending more time and effort on this problem, but I am sick of spending that much money away for simple solutions.

 

[Cornholio]

Yeah, but that wasn't 90% alcohol and 10% water. It was 90% alcohol and 10% propylene glycol (PPG). The PPG is the key to that formula.
Bryan

All of my minoxidil (from different sources) seems to have purified water listed as an ingredient. In retrospect, that may just have been added to adjust the alcohol to the desired concentration and not as a necessary independant ingredient...

One problem will be finding how much spironolactone (how many milligram) needs to be added to what volume of solution to make 2 or 5% solution (is that weight based? if so 5mg + 95ml solution). Ill read some other boards as Im sure this has been discussed before... I would have the same question regarding minoxidil.

BHT looks like a good idea, but isnt listed with my minoxidil...

pH is also an issure with spironolactone, apparently... Ill have to read more.

 

[iamnaked]

I use Boots glycerin and rosewater. I dissolve two 25mg tablets at a time and use a dropper to apply it. It is dermatologically tested and supposed to moisturise skin.

 

[thin=depressed]

In addition to rent and car payments I now essentially have a "Hair Payment." That is the monthly order needed to refill stocks of any hair product in short supply. I am getting tired of this and have started to wonder why I couldn't make my own... Im not sure I would actually do this, but wonder if I could... There are issues of stability and absorption, but I wonder if these could be overcome if batches were made monthly...

It seems that alcohol is the ingredient that helps Dr. Lee's products absorb and dry quickly. For minoxidil at least I have seen studies showing that absorbtion increases in proportion to alcohol content up to 90%.

Is anybody making an alcohol based minoxidil or spironolactone liquid at home? And would you share recipies? (Im guessing 85-90% alcohol, 10-15% water and minoxidil or spironolactone of an unknown quantity)

Does anyone have any reason to think that this would not work?
______________________________________________________

Man is separated from the animals by his desire to take medicine.

If you look at my regimen at the bottom you'll see nothing but a home made product and thats because the reality is that I would be spending five times as much money on my regimen if it wasn't made by me. As for minoxidil, I have major problems with scaling from the harsh ppg and alcohol I read hurts the follicles some what so I'll be making my own minoxidil from now on by purchasing Loniten tablets (minoxidil) and disolving them in DMSO or propylparaben. This home made minoxidil would be roughly the same price as typical 5% but have no ppg or alcohol. http://www.dmso.org

 

[Cornholio]

thin=depressed

Very interesting... I had read about DMSO and its reported benefits (anti-inflammatory) and am considering oral MSM because it is alleged to have similar effects. As a solvent DMSO causes an strong garlic smell (do you notice that?) and works so well that it may carry things beyond the scalp into the circulation. As I think that isnt my goal with the spironolactone or minoxidil I will probably stick with the alcohol base if possible... also, I kind of like the liquid/ dropper method for application between hairs and imagine DMSO is a cream or ointment?

Regarding your treatment are you mixing this in a DMSO cream or ointment, or is it really liquid?

Flutamide applied with DMSO may very well go straight into the blood-stream and cause systemic effects (Im sure you've heard this)

I would like the ability to add custom ingredients like ala and atp, but would have no idea how to get them or how much to add.

How is that combination working, and where do you begin to find ingredients like atp and ala ?

 

[Cornholio]

I use Boots glycerin and rosewater. I dissolve two 25mg tablets at a time and use a dropper to apply it. It is dermatologically tested and supposed to moisturise skin.

Is that 25 mg spironolactone (or minoxidil)? And what are the volumes of glycerin and rosewater? It sounds like it would absorb really fast/ dry fast. Do you mean the recipe has been tested and that the medication is stable, effective and absorbed, or that glycerin has been shown to moisturize the skin?

thanks

 

[thin=depressed]

thin=depressed

Very interesting... I had read about DMSO and its reported benefits (anti-inflammatory) and am considering oral MSM because it is alleged to have similar effects. As a solvent DMSO causes an strong garlic smell (do you notice that?) and works so well that it may carry things beyond the scalp into the circulation. As I think that isnt my goal with the spironolactone or minoxidil I will probably stick with the alcohol base if possible... also, I kind of like the liquid/ dropper method for application between hairs and imagine DMSO is a cream or ointment?

Regarding your treatment are you mixing this in a DMSO cream or ointment, or is it really liquid?

Flutamide applied with DMSO may very well go straight into the blood-stream and cause systemic effects (Im sure you've heard this)

I would like the ability to add custom ingredients like ala and atp, but would have no idea how to get them or how much to add.

How is that combination working, and where do you begin to find ingredients like atp and ala ?

dmso is a liquid and its the brand I use sold for horse use because its not for sale for human consumption; the stuff does not stink strongly at all but has a light pungant smell. I already use small amounts of flut in standard min so I don't think dmso will increase the absorbtion levels considering that ppg inevitably puts flut into my system already.Small decreases in testosterone levels is not a problem. After all consider the finasteride users are already dropping thier dht levels a relatively strong amount. Atp is sold at wieght lifting stores and alfa lipoic acid anywhere and is used as anti-inflammatory. Dmso is also a vasodilator! Its a win win situation.

 

[Bryan]

All of my minoxidil (from different sources) seems to have purified water listed as an ingredient.

I don't find the presence of water in minoxidil solutions quite as objectionable, since minoxidil _does_ dissolve in water to a certain modest extent. However, spironolactone is "practically insoluble" in water, so I personally would leave the water out of spironolactone topicals.

BTW, you aren't seriously interested in making your own topical minoxidil solutions, are you? Do you really think you could save any money at all by doing that?? Have you checked out the prices of Loniten tablets?

One problem will be finding how much spironolactone (how many milligram) needs to be added to what volume of solution to make 2 or 5% solution (is that weight based? if so 5mg + 95ml solution).

Just keep it simple: if you add 1.2 grams of spironolactone to 60 mL of vehicle, that will be close enough to a 2% solution. Keep in mind that that does NOT include the rest of the tablet fillers and excipients. In other words, you'd thoroughly powder twelve 100 mg spironolactone tablets and add it to 60 mL of vehicle. You may want to filter out the excipients afterwards.

BHT looks like a good idea, but isnt listed with my minoxidil...

Minoxidil is apparently more stable than spironolactone, so that's why you don't see BHT included in products like Rogaine. However, I _do_ recall an early topical minoxidil study in which a small amount of BHT was added to the vehicle. They obviously didn't want to take any chances in those early days.

Bryan

 

[Bryan]

I already use small amounts of flut in standard min so I don't think dmso will increase the absorbtion levels considering that ppg inevitably puts flut into my system already.

Sounds like a risky assumption, to me! :wink:

Small decreases in testosterone levels is not a problem. After all consider the finasteride users are already dropping thier dht levels a relatively strong amount.

Systemically absorbed flutamide and finasteride INCREASE your testosterone, they don't reduce it.

Bryan

 

[thin=depressed]

I already use small amounts of flut in standard min so I don't think dmso will increase the absorbtion levels considering that ppg inevitably puts flut into my system already.

Sounds like a risky assumption, to me! :wink:

[quote="thin=depressed":ff857]Small decreases in testosterone levels is not a problem. After all consider the finasteride users are already dropping thier dht levels a relatively strong amount.

Systemically absorbed flutamide and finasteride INCREASE your testosterone, they don't reduce it.

Bryan[/quote:ff857]Oh yes, Thats correct. Less dht conversion. Inevitably turns to estrogen if not converted hence the boob factor.

 

[Bryan]

Finasteride causes a small rise in testosterone because DHT is a player in the brain-gonadal axis that regulates testosterone production. The body sees that there's sharply reduced DHT, so it sends the hormonal signals (LH and FSH) to the testes to increase testosterone production.

Bryan

 

[Cornholio]

BTW, you aren't seriously interested in making your own topical minoxidil solutions, are you? Do you really think you could save any money at all by doing that?? Have you checked out the prices of Loniten tablets?

Just keep it simple: if you add 1.2 grams of spironolactone to 60 mL of vehicle, that will be close enough to a 2% solution. Keep in mind that that does NOT include the rest of the tablet fillers and excipients. In other words, you'd thoroughly powder twelve 100 mg spironolactone tablets and add it to 60 mL of vehicle. You may want to filter out the excipients afterwards.
Bryan

Well, I know I can get a prescription for spironolactone and loniten, and I have insurance, making that affordable if the pharmacy doesnt balk at giving a 37 year old those meds... (With those meds given I wonder if future insurers might assume I have hypertension and raise my rates?)

The real difficulty would be finding the solvents, the quality control, the question of pH for spironolactone (it was mentioned as a factor for stability), the pulverizing of the pills, and the filtering/removal of fillers if any, and the extra pain of doing it monthly. Plus, in the end, i would worry I had done something wrong and filtered out or inactivated the active ingredient : ) .

I guess I need to pay attention to how much this really costs me, and find the costs of setting up shop. Dr Lee's products are great and convenient but taken daily forever (lord willing and my hair doesnt fall out) it would pay to find an alternative.

I am lazy and may just choose to buy it, but it would be nice to control ingredients AND save money... I guess its time to do the math... Unless someone can do it for me? (hint hint)

 

[Bryan]

The real difficulty would be finding the solvents, the quality control, the question of pH for spironolactone (it was mentioned as a factor for stability), the pulverizing of the pills, and the filtering/removal of fillers if any, and the extra pain of doing it monthly. Plus, in the end, i would worry I had done something wrong and filtered out or inactivated the active ingredient : ) .

I don't think any of those issues would be terribly daunting for you, as long as you have a reasonable amount of perseverance.

You should be able to have your local pharmacist order you a pint bottle of pharmaceutical-grade propylene glycol for about $10. That would last you a LONG time. For ethanol, I recommend using Everclear (190-proof booze), if you live in one of the states that allows its sale. If so, you can buy it in a liquor store.

I wouldn't worry about the pH for spironolactone. As long as you make monthly quantities, keep it in the fridge and protect it with BHT (which is ultra-cheap), it shouldn't be a problem.

Get yourself a nice mortar and pestle for crushing/powdering pills. Use a coffee filter for filtering excipients out of solutions.

Read the lengthy article I wrote about a year ago on HLH showing that when you crush spironolactone tablets and dissolve the powder in alcohol, the spironolactone ALMOST CERTAINLY goes into solution, leaving behind the excipients. Filtering those excipients is NOT gonna remove the spironolactone. Trust me on that! :wink:

I guess I need to pay attention to how much this really costs me, and find the costs of setting up shop. Dr Lee's products are great and convenient but taken daily forever (lord willing and my hair doesnt fall out) it would pay to find an alternative.

I am lazy and may just choose to buy it, but it would be nice to control ingredients AND save money... I guess its time to do the math... Unless someone can do it for me? (hint hint)

I just did a quick search for Loniten tablets, and you're not gonna like what I found: I found one site that has GENERIC minoxidil tablets for sale: 10 mg tabs for 47.8 cents apiece, when bought in larger quantities. Now do you see why I was so incredulous at the idea that you and the other poster had about making your own topical minoxidil solutions?? To make the equivalent of 1 mL of a 5% solution, you would have to use FIVE of those tabs, for a total cost of about $2.39 (not including the alcohol or PPG or anything else in the vehicle)! Again, that's just for ONE standard application of a 5% solution! I suggest you just use the cheapest generic topical minoxidil that you can find. It's not all that expensive nowadays, and you're not gonna be able to make your own for any less money, not to mention all the hassle involved.

Bryan

 

[thin=depressed]

The real difficulty would be finding the solvents, the quality control, the question of pH for spironolactone (it was mentioned as a factor for stability), the pulverizing of the pills, and the filtering/removal of fillers if any, and the extra pain of doing it monthly. Plus, in the end, i would worry I had done something wrong and filtered out or inactivated the active ingredient : ) .

I don't think any of those issues would be terribly daunting for you, as long as you have a reasonable amount of perseverance.

You should be able to have your local pharmacist order you a pint bottle of pharmaceutical-grade propylene glycol for about $10. That would last you a LONG time. For ethanol, I recommend using Everclear (190-proof booze), if you live in one of the states that allows its sale. If so, you can buy it in a liquor store.

I wouldn't worry about the pH for spironolactone. As long as you make monthly quantities, keep it in the fridge and protect it with BHT (which is ultra-cheap), it shouldn't be a problem.

Get yourself a nice mortar and pestle for crushing/powdering pills. Use a coffee filter for filtering excipients out of solutions.

Read the lengthy article I wrote about a year ago on HLH showing that when you crush spironolactone tablets and dissolve the powder in alcohol, the spironolactone ALMOST CERTAINLY goes into solution, leaving behind the excipients. Filtering those excipients is NOT gonna remove the spironolactone. Trust me on that! :wink:

I guess I need to pay attention to how much this really costs me, and find the costs of setting up shop. Dr Lee's products are great and convenient but taken daily forever (lord willing and my hair doesnt fall out) it would pay to find an alternative.

I am lazy and may just choose to buy it, but it would be nice to control ingredients AND save money... I guess its time to do the math... Unless someone can do it for me? (hint hint)

I just did a quick search for Loniten tablets, and you're not gonna like what I found: I found one site that has GENERIC minoxidil tablets for sale: 10 mg tabs for 47.8 cents apiece, when bought in larger quantities. Now do you see why I was so incredulous at the idea that you and the other poster had about making your own topical minoxidil solutions?? To make the equivalent of 1 mL of a 5% solution, you would have to use FIVE of those tabs, for a total cost of about $2.39 (not including the alcohol or PPG or anything else in the vehicle)! Again, that's just for ONE standard application of a 5% solution! I suggest you just use the cheapest generic topical minoxidil that you can find. It's not all that expensive nowadays, and you're not gonna be able to make your own for any less money, not to mention all the hassle involved.

Bryan

Very informative post! thank you, although I would like to know where you found the generic tabs because ppg tears the sh*t out of my scalp and I was wondering if ethanol might be better?www.labdepot.com for minoxidil powder and pastle

 

[Cornholio]

Excerpts from dr. Lee's site...

"Ethyl alcohol is one of the few substances that freely permeates the skin (the permeability coefficient of ethanol across human skin in 8 x 10 –8 mol/cm2) and it carries the minoxidil in with it. The penetration enhancing effects of ethanol play a significant role in minoxidil absorption. The effective absorption of topical minoxidil depends on the vehicle composition. Greater effects are achieved when the fraction of the volatile component increases, especially at ethanol concentrations higher than 50% (and maximizing at 90%)".


Q. How much of the base of Xandrox15 is ethyl alcohol?
A. The base solution consists of 80% ethyl alcohol and 20% glycerin.
Q. Does Xandrox15 have a ‘greasy’ feel?
A. Since the base is 80% ethyl alcohol, Xandrox15 solution absorbs quickly and does not leave an oily sheen on the scalp. The alcohol/glycerin compound is far superior to the ‘greasy’ feeling of Rogaine Extra strength and/or the 5% generic minoxidil solutions, which use a 50% propylene glycol, 30% ethyl alcohol, 20% water base.
Q. Why use glycerin instead of the propylene glycol that is used in most minoxidil preparations?
A. A significant number of patients, perhaps as many as 10%, have an adverse skin reaction to propylene glycol. On the other hand, it would be extremely rare to have an adverse reaction to glycerin, which is commonly used in dermatological preparations as a humectant. Humectants attract moisture to one’s skin. Glycerin based soaps are offered at exclusive spas and resorts for this very reason."

So, minoxidil is absorbed maximally at 90% concentration ethy alcohol. If the propylene glycol or glycerine is not needed for stability or soluability (that is a question i cant answer) either is probably added for a hydrating effect on the scalp (as ethyl alcohol would be harsh and drying). I would wonder if 80% (or more) ethyl alcohol and 20% glycerine (or less) would be optimal? You could play with the ratio a little for desired consistency.

 

[thin=depressed]

This post rocks! Glycerine would work great with ethanol as its a moisturizer! I'm def trying this

 

[Cornholio]

Yeah, but that wasn't 90% alcohol and 10% water. It was 90% alcohol and 10% propylene glycol (PPG). The PPG is the key to that formula.

I'd lose the water and use PPG instead. Maybe about 2% spironolactone in a 50/50 ethanol/PPG vehicle (or more alcohol/less PPG if you don't like the greasiness). Add a tiny pinch of BHT (about 0.05% to 0.1%) for stability. Use up the solution in a timely manner, and keep it in the fridge.

Is PPG for hydration, a needed solvent, or needed for stability? Is there any reason that glycerin couldn't perform for both spironolactone and minoxidil separately? Thankyou for any ideas (still dont know if it will save money, but Im thinking about it...). The only way that it might save money is if insurance covered the spironolactone and minoxidil for me.

 

[thin=depressed]

If you were willing to invest in large amount of minoxidil strieght from the lab say 100 grams you would def save $$$$