High Dose Topical Estrogen With Low Dose Oral Serm And Topical Serm

[Kevand]

why haven't anybody tried this and then maintain regrowth with finasteride, dutasteride or topical aa?
Edit: Topical Serm applied in breat area

 

[Zoro]

Been discussed before, except with AI instead of SERM: https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...al-estrogen-with-aromatase-inhibitors.101396/

 

[Kev123]

I'd try it, but i'm just scared to death of feminizing myself. What estrogen can do for male pattern baldness is incredible, what it can do to a man is nightmarish.

 

[paleocapa89]

just out of curiosity, apart from different fat distribution, what does estrogen do to males? layman question.

 

[Kevand]

just out of curiosity, apart from different fat distribution, what does estrogen do to males? layman question.

Change in skin, muscle loss, fuller lips, change of eye chape, reduced body hair, effect sexual function and organs, mental changes, bone changes? (long term)?) etc

 

[Kevand]

Been discussed before, except with AI instead of SERM: https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...al-estrogen-with-aromatase-inhibitors.101396/

It would be very hard to balance AI and topical estro without blood level monitoring, also I think highdose topical estrogen can more than 10 fold estrogen levels in men which mean even if would nulify our own estro production we still turn in to women .
I think this could be a very good experiment. I would have tried this if I could find any treatment that could maintain without significant sides, no luck right now and I tried many things.

 

[Zoro]

It would be very hard to balance AI and topical estro without blood level monitoring, also I think highdose topical estrogen can more than 10 fold estrogen levels in men which mean even if would nulify our own estro production we still turn in to women .
I think this could be a very good experiment. I would have tried this if I could find any treatment that could maintain without significant sides, no luck right now and I tried many things.

According to this, 1.25g of estrogel put postmenopausal women around ~30pg/ml which is in the normal range for males. If you nuke your estrogen with a strong AI like letro I'd imagine you'd get similar results but then again not everything turns out like it is on paper, but you could play with the amounts and use less.

I'd imagine the problem with using SERMs instead of AI is that estrogen won't be able to do it's work on the scalp, especially with oral SERMs

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

Too much estrogen might have side effects beyond the breast tissue.

 

[paleocapa89]

s

Change in skin, muscle loss, fuller lips, change of eye chape, reduced body hair, effect sexual function and organs, mental changes, bone changes? (long term)?) etc

I just read an article out of curiosity and this is the most frightening part:
"Within a few months of beginning hormone therapy, you must assume that you will become permanently and irreversibly sterile. Some people may maintain a sperm count on hormone therapy, or have their sperm count return after stopping hormone therapy, but you must assume that won’t be the case for you."

this is about male to female transgenders btw.

 

[Kev123]

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I just read an article out of curiosity and this is the most frightening part:
"Within a few months of beginning hormone therapy, you must assume that you will become permanently and irreversibly sterile. Some people may maintain a sperm count on hormone therapy, or have their sperm count return after stopping hormone therapy, but you must assume that won’t be the case for you."

this is about male to female transgenders btw.

Is this oral estrogen? What about if it's estrogen gel on hairline?

 

[bridgeburn]

taking Indole-3-Carbinol or DIM supplements is supposed to speed up Estrogen metabolism

 

[paleocapa89]

Is this oral estrogen? What about if it's estrogen gel on hairline?

this is nuking yourself with oral hormones to become a woman deliberately. So I don't know how it translates to topical estrogen.

 

[Kev123]

this is nuking yourself with oral hormones to become a woman deliberately. So I don't know how it translates to topical estrogen.

Do you think topical estrogen 2-3x per week can work well for male pattern baldness without affecting your body too much?

 

[Kevand]

According to this, 1.25mg of estrogel put postmenopausal women around ~30pg/ml which is in the normal range for males. If you nuke your estrogen with a strong AI like letro I'd imagine you'd get similar results but then again not everything turns out like it is on paper, but you could play with the amounts and use less.

I'd imagine the problem with using SERMs instead of AI is that estrogen won't be able to do it's work on the scalp, especially with oral SERMs

I think oral SERM while keeping high concentration of estrogen on scalp could work, but AI and topical estro doesnt seem to bad either when u say it

 

[Medina]

Where are the testimonies that topical estrogen works locally at all? Even aggressive MTF regimes don't seem to shout about it

For me whatevr doesn't count because he took finasteride months prior

 

[hairblues]

women who are going into menopause use estrogen cream sometimes.
I dont knew if its good for you guys to be using estrogen cream
just do a little research make sure its not same strength and dose etc as women who use creams for menopause.

 

[bridgeburn]

I'd imagine the problem with using SERMs instead of AI is that estrogen won't be able to do it's work on the scalp, especially with oral SERMs

it won't? I thought SERMs were selective , only supposed to block estrogen receptors in the breast? but yes that sounds way too good to be true.

 

[Zoro]

I think oral SERM while keeping high concentration of estrogen on scalp could work, but AI and topical estro doesnt seem to bad either when u say it

If it's done it would have to be in short cycles, AI's aren't good to use long term and when you come off you can get estrogen rebound if you don't taper off properly. Not crazy enough to try it myself (yet).

 

[Ramsey]

I'd imagine the problem with using SERMs instead of AI is that estrogen won't be able to do it's work on the scalp, especially with oral SERMs

That's the standard idea about oral SERMs and it makes sense. But SERMs are unusual because of their dimorphic pharmacological effect on the estrogen receptor. I'm confused about the effect on hair. I've found research on tamoxifen that's mixed: harmful in some reports, no effect in others.

A study on mice showed tamoxifen hurting the follicles:

The HFs were found to be arrested in telogen phase with clear signs of follicle dystrophy. The hair growth-retarding effect of [tamoxifen] observed in the current study clearly demonstrates its OR agonistic effect on hair growth.

- Tamoxifen-loaded liposomal topical formulation arrests hair growth in mice, Bhatia, 2010, India https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20331445

A case report on a 5-year old girl with McCure-Albright syndrome who was switched from cyproterone acetate to tamoxifen showed that she ended up with hair "on the skin of her upper and lower abdomen, upper and lower back, arms, and thighs", the typical areas of adult men (Kırmızıbekmez, 2015, Turkey, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26024247).

So it looks like tamoxifen blocking estrogen receptors would lead to an increased androgen:estrogen ratio, with male-pattern scalp hair loss and hirsutism in women/girls?

But then this 2013 study shows no effect (or at most very little) from tamoxifen on women's scalp hair. It's a small number of patients, but it's pretty thorough, and in contrast to most cancer-drug studies, is focused very specifically on hair loss. Women being treated for breast cancer were analyzed about their hair loss. n=17 patients (avg age=50) were treated with chemotherapy, n=17 patients (avg age=58) treated with 20mg daily of tamoxifen. The chemotherapy patients lost hair density and had anagen effluvium (started at week 1-3, and eventually recovered 3 months after stopping treatment). But the tamoxifen patients had essentially no hair loss, no change in anagen:telogen ratio, and the only real difference in their hair was a very small loss of anagen hairs and density in the frontal area from week 6 to 18.

The lack of effect of tamoxifen is striking enough that the authors comment in the discussion:

Considering the wide use of tamoxifen, the data reported [about its supposed harmful effects on hair] are rather limited and partly questionable... There is little evidence in the current literature that oestrogens affect human hair growth one way or the other, possibly indicating a role of genetic predisposition in oestrogen-related hair changes.

Our results argue against an effect of tamoxifen on hair growth.

- Analysis of quantitative changes in hair growth during treatment with chemotherapy or tamoxifen in patients with breast cancer: a cohort study, Kanti, 2013, Germany, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24641211

I could go PubMed-Warrior mode and find literature to counter the authors about estrogens affecting human hair growth, and n=17 isn't huge, etc, but still.... it's a very striking conclusion.

Any thoughts on what's going on with this? Anyone have personal experience or seen reports of tamoxifen's effect on hair loss?

Edit to add: I think I saw that @jgray201 used tamoxifen (Genox) 20mg while taking spironolactone to fight against gyno?

 

[tylerduren]

I love testosterone . Its what makes me the alpha male beast that i am. Id go bald over estrogen any day