Hfs In Mice Lacking Wnt10a Resemble Androgenetic Alopecia Hfs

[Medina]

Yup

On occasion I also take a mulit vit/mineral pill.

Also did castor oil for PGE2 but I wasn't consistent.

Sounds like a treat for the inflammation angle. Not convinced it will stop hairloss though. Hope you can prove us wrong!

 

[Grasshüpfer]

Wnt10a is indeed Samumeds target molecule. So they quite likely had similar findings.

 

[InBeforeTheCure]

I just couldn't resist. Sorry for derailing.

I figured you were joking, but I had to reply just in case Armando got too excited.

That said, do you think that the wnt pathway disruption is a result of the Ar activation.
Or could it be a different pathway, eventually even upstream of the Ar in the chain of events?

If the mechanism for HF miniaturization is the same as in the Wnt10a mutant mice, then Wnt pathway disruption would be downstream. There are some experiments where DHT induces DKK1 expression in balding DPCs, but this doesn't happen in every study. There are many possibilities though -- lots of Wnt pathway genes associated with A.G.A along with Wnt10a.

As for what could affect Wnt10a expression in A.G.A, TSPEAR is one possibility. The TSPEAR gene is also associated with A.G.A. (two SNPs - rs141433484 and rs690333) and knockdown of TSPEAR downregulates Wnt10a in keratinocytes.

There are two independent genetic variants near Wnt10a. The more common one is rs7349332, which is in linkage disequilibrium with two other SNPs -- this means, in short, that the functional variant could be any one of the three SNPs.

Anyway, according to the paper, TSPEAR is a secreted protein of some sort expressed in the epithelial part of the hair follicle. And it seems to upregulate Notch signaling (somehow) and Wnt10a. Notice how rs7349332 (C -> T substitution increases risk of A.G.A) is flanking the core binding motif for the transcription factor RBPJ (GTGGGAA).

RBPJ mediates Notch signaling. So we could speculate that there's a pathway TSPEAR -> Notch -> RBPJ -> Wnt10a that's sometimes misregulated in A.G.A. If that's the case, then whether AR affects the TSPEAR -> Wnt10a pathway, or whether this is a separate process, I have no idea.

so would this help or is this snake oil?

https://www.haircycle.com/hair-loss-products/wnt-act

here is ingredients
Water (Aqua), Propylene Glycol, Trehalose, , Panthenol, PEG-40 Hydrogenated Castor Oil, Methyl vanillate, Wheat Amino Acids, Soy Amino Acids, Arginine HCL, Serine, Threonine, Niacinamide, Faex Extract, Horse Chestnut (Aesculus Hippocastanum) Extract, Ammonium Glycyrrhizate, Zinc Gluconate, Caffeine, Biotin, Manganese PCA, Disodium EDTA, Sodium Hydroxymethylglycinate, Lactic Acid, Fragrance (Perfume)

I think methyl vanillate upregulates Wnt10b. So, wrong Wnt.

Isn't wnt10a the target of Samumed?

Wnt10a is indeed Samumeds target molecule. So they quite likely had similar findings.

Source?

 

[Grasshüpfer]

Wnt10a is indeed Samumeds target molecule. So they quite likely had similar findings.

I jumped to conclusions once again. This nature article points out wnt10a as a target in Androgenetic Alopecia, and then talks about samumed in connection to that.

It however never explicitly states samumed is targeting wnt10a.


-edit- It will take me probably an hour to understand what exactly the colourful images in your last post mean. I will come back with some questions to verify I understand.

From what I see by just reading it is that several code snippets influencing wnt10a are also showing up in genome wide association studies, like the g->t change.

I don't know anything about the way transcription factors work, and how big the probability of influence of physically close snippets in the DNA to each other is. So I have to research that to understand.

Thank you for the very insightful post!

 

[Trichosan]

...lots of Wnt pathway genes associated with A.G.A along with Wnt10a...The TSPEAR gene is also associated with A.G.A...There are two independent genetic variants near Wnt10a...Wnt10a that's sometimes misregulated in A.G.A....

I really like this as it exemplifies the direction we need to take to truly correct the problem. Obviously we lack the correct combination of alleles that full heads have to sustain hair growth somewhere along multiple paths. Direct genetic modification via intro of some recombinant carrier may be still light years away. However, perhaps introduction of something in the chemical process as is done successfully in improving downstream results in methylation pathways may be the near term solution. Thankfully we have in our grasp today, the tools and techniques to gain understanding of the genetics involved.

Great post @InBeforeTheCure

 

[Nextjohns]

Guy's the increase in sebum is because of the increase of androgens, nothing more.

I took Seti 900mg a day for a month and it didn't stop the shedding I had. Stopped the itch and sebum by alot though.

finasteride stops the itch and sebum. I thought because it inhibits DHT, but why does Seti do the same?

Hmmm...

 

[Armando Jose]

i dont know why people are so quick to dismiss Armando's thoughts about sebum

ever since i started balding my sebum production has increased noticeably and dramatically. To disregard this as some "evolutionary vestige" just seems silly, one should consider all the mechanical changes in the scalp because they're probably relevant.

edit: and fwiw, almost all effective hair loss treatments have a marked effect on sebum production, including finasteride and minoxidil.

thank you very much guy for your words.

Do you know occam razor? ....., my ideas can also explain the pattern of hairloss, why FKW36 mantain the hairs in the sides with a high production of sebum?

Problems with sebum are not only in production rate but its composition that can change easily if it is not eliminated, Hardened sebum can alter the voyage of stem cells, also it is a inflammation contributor. Problems with Sebum is probaly the first step in this multifactorial event.

 

[Armando Jose]

In the study you cited,...
I am with Cotsaleris
“I’d hate to use the
word cure, because I don’t think male-pattern
baldness can be completely reversed,”

 

[Armando Jose]

In the study you cited,...
I am with Cotsaleris
“I’d hate to use the
word cure, because I don’t think male-pattern
baldness can be completely reversed,”