Help me out guys - pics

[gh05]

Please comment on the extent of my hairloss. Typical male pattern baldness? Norwood scale?

I've been using minoxidil 2% on the hairline only for about a year and it really got me depressed when I shaved it and saw the uneven pattern left when it started to grow back. The hairline finishes sooner on my right side but on the left it sort of 'cuts behind' more. I don't think the minoxidil has helped at all (or even made it worse causing it to be more uneven??) By shaving my head I was hoping to put this sh*t behind me and move on but then I realised I just look worse and may aswell try to cover it up. It's a head f*ck because sometimes it looks fine i.e. pic 2 and sometime when i wake up in the morning I can see through the corners of my hairline about 2-3 inches back.

As for the crown...i just don't know - i remember even when very young in school people saying i had a large crown and I've always had extremely fine hair. I've been scared to use minoxidil on the crown in case it doesn't work/makes it worse as i think may have happened on the temples.

I've recently started using some nizoral a couple of times a week and have also just recently started looking at my hands to find hairs on my hands in the shower...smaller ones - maybe 15-20 or so or maybe more if i keep rubbing my head.

I had a lot of teasing when i shaved my head with people saying i look much better with hair (even 'ill' with a shaved head) so this has really got to me....i already had depression and anxiety issues.

I don't want to risk finasteride partly cos of the anxiety synptoms and partly because I just wouldn't be able to cope if i did notice the other effects of reduced DHT. On the other hand, I'm constantly obsessed with my hair sometimes spending hours in the mirror and taking pictures per day.

Recently I went on an online dating site and it's really cutting to hear women say 'no baldies' - i just think f*ck do i just upload the pics of me where my hair looks ok (i.e. blowdryed and brushed forward in darker light) and get someone who wont like me when i go bald, or put the shaved head pics of me and get barely any attention but stand the odd chance of finding someone who does care. Sorry to the guys who have less hair than mem I dont mean to offend - I just have some real anxiety issues on top of this.

 

[gh05]

just realised how small the last (and most revealing) pic is...you need to click on it to view.

 

[Rawtashk]

What's worse, spending 4 hours a day obsessing about your hair, or popping a pill once a day and forgetting about it? I've been on finasteride for over 3 years now, and no sides.

I started finasteride when I was 24, but I should have started it @ 22. Sadly, I came across the propeciahelp site and was scared shittless. I finally took the plunge once someone commented on my bald spot (which I had no idea I had).

I don't have many regrets in life...but not starting finasteride sooner is one of them. I'm 100% certain that I wouldn't have that thin spot right now.


(my full story, if you're interested viewtopic.php?f=30&t=65594 )

 

[Rawtashk]

What's worse, spending 4 hours a day obsessing about your hair, or popping a pill once a day and forgetting about it? I've been on finasteride for over 3 years now, and no sides.

I started finasteride when I was 24, but I should have started it @ 22. Sadly, I came across the propeciahelp site and was scared shittless. I finally took the plunge once someone commented on my bald spot (which I had no idea I had).

I don't have many regrets in life...but not starting finasteride sooner is one of them. I'm 100% certain that I wouldn't have that thin spot right now.


(my full story, if you're interested viewtopic.php?f=30&t=65594 )

 

[gh05]

I don't want to risk finasteride right now for many reasons - I have very bad general anxiety and that seems to be one of the effects that it has.

Other comments or suggestions please anyone?

 

[gh05]

Stop using Minoxidil 2% and get on Minoxdil 5%. How old are you and how long have you been balding, has your hair always been fine or has it been thick?.You are a NW2-2.5 at front (guessing PICS not great for determining this) and you are thinning on the vertex and crown.
If you have started balding in the last 3yrs then without finasteride you will almost certainly not be able to retain your hair, so better get used to some state of the art combovers or shave it all off.
Granted you can get sides on finasteride, but you will not know until you start taking it. It all depends on whether you want to maintain your hair or if it is not really that important for you.

I’m 26. My hair has always been very fine. I noticed my temples receding about three years ago but was unsure if it was a ‘mature hairline’ or whatever. I started using the minoxidil and have done so for over a year but like I said it didn’t make any difference and with the uneven pattern I’m not even sure if it may have even made things worse hence my reluctance to use it at the crown – I always had a large crown and wasn’t sure if this was thinning yet.

I have so many reservations about using finasteride – one, the fact that I have very bad anxiety/depression – finasteride has been shown to cause these effects (see comments here - http://www.baldingblog.com/2006/04/19/a ... -propecia/)

Then I have reservations about the other sexual side effects and changes to the body/oestrogen but lastly I would feel so dependent on a drug which I knew I depended on to keep my hair. If for any reason I wanted or needed to come off it (like so many people it seems) then I’d experience ‘catch up’ loss and potentially lose everything in the space of a year…the anxiety of that happening must be pretty terrible. I already feel an uncomfortable dependency on minoxidil which I’m not even sure has worked or made things worse.

Is it really essential for me to use finasteride to keep my hair? Is it possible that my hair loss could stabilise naturally? Would using the nizoral a couple of times a week help?

 

[freakout]

If you start minoxidil, never let a day pass without applying it. I have this hunch that shedding may be caused by skpping. Also make sure that youre' not using fake products.

Could you give me a few details about how you spend the typical day?

 

[gh05]

If you start minoxidil, never let a day pass without applying it. I have this hunch that shedding may be caused by skpping. Also make sure that youre' not using fake products.

I'm pretty sure I've only missed it on a few occasions. Like less than 10 in the space of a year.

Could you give me a few details about how you spend the typical day?

Basic office work. Exercise when able (2-3 times per week gym or run)

Anyone else got comments/advice???

 

[gh05]

???

 

[freakout]

How much more do you want to know?

Do you drink milk, tea or coffee. If so, how often and how much.
Exactly, what type of job do you do? I take it that you started on this job about three years ago? If you want more, try my regimen. If you do, be ready for a difficult road ahead.

 

[Oknow]

GH05

If you do get sides on finasteride you can stop taking it. End of. All sides will dissapear when off the drug.
If someone was on finasteride and got cancer, would they blame finasteride. A good percentage would and they would warn everyone off it and probably post on the internet about it as well.
Out of 1000 people that take finasteride and get results, probably only 1 of 1000 posts on the internet about their results. It is probably less than that. I have 2 friends that have confided in me that they are now using finasteride after seeing my results.
In your life if you want to be successful you have to take risks, life is not going to be how you are going to want it to be without taking risks. So if you want a chance of keeping your hair you know the risk you have to take and it is a very, very small one.
minoxidil 5% and finasteride or you will likely be NW4+ in 3yrs time.
Whatever your decision i wish you well.

How old are they and have they got sides?

 

[gh05]

Well I was wondering why you guys were asking certain questions without following it up? Like I've always had fine hair - does that make a difference?

The balance for me is that taking finasteride is a HUGE decision. There are so many potentially negative effects - many of those may not be realised for some time after, I've even fertility experts talk of finasteride as dangerous to fertility - these things really matter to me. It's also not just a case of 'come off it if you get sides' because with coming off propecia I'm told people get 'catch up hair loss' which must be a huge fear, therefore there is a psychologcial dependency.

What I'm trying to assess is whether it is worth it. Of course, i really want to keep my hair - I wouldn't be here otherwise, but if for example I wouldn't be noticeably considered bald by the average person until I'm in my late 30's then i mght not want to take the risk and I could just shave it off when that happens.

For me, the hairline has receded in the last three years...not to a huge extent, but it has receded...basically it's gone back by about a square inch on each side in the last two years. The crown - I don't know, like I've said - I've always had a noticeable crown probably due to naturally fine hair - those pictures were taken in bright sunlight but I'm told by my partner (who knows how much it means to me and is honest with me about my hair loss) that she hasn't noticed much of a change. She says that in normal light she can see a small crown and then maybe a slightly thinner patch about the size of a coin in normal light although she admits that in photos I have taken it looks a bit more prominent (although she thinks still not that much). My family laugh at me when I say I'm going bald but I can point out to them my hairline has receded a bit - which they tell me is 'normal' for my age. It's a bit of a head f*ck so really I just want to know how 'bad' it is currently or is going to get without going on this drug which I really actually don't want to go on.

Then there are suppsoedly other medications - hair clinics where I live want to prescribe topical minoxidil with things like azelaicx acid or progesterone to block DHT - do these work...can I slow my hair loss without finasteride using these meds? Will Nizoral help??

Then I'm confused over how some people say that minoxidil basically wont work as it doesnt block DHT and then some say it will work because it makes the follicles stronger and more able to combat DHT. So many questions here, but if anyone can help me out with them all then I'd be very grateful.

and no i don't have a lot of dairy in my diet currently - does that supposedly matter?

 

[Pyro]

hey man, I would stay off finasteride. like don't even try it. Just my opinion though so don't eat my guys. Here's why i have this opinion

Until i was 20, I never had any case of ED. Infact I didn't know it existed. I remember at one point i was bored and looked up "how to be a p**rn star" cause I thought it would be an awesome job. One of the criteria was "get hard and stay hard" now for some reason, I specifically remember laughing at that thinking " well i can stay hard all day" Which was true! without stimulation, just mental I could keep my erection for aslong as i wanted.

Anyway, so then I took finasteride at some point. Got off it only after a few days as I lost my libido. Then a few months later, I have a severe case of ED. Like I couldn't get it up AT ALL. I was in shock at this and was so angry at finasteride. I know some people will say "oh how do you know it was the finasteride?" Ofcourse it was the f*****g finasteride, considering as i said, i didn't even know what ED prior to finasteride.

A year or so later since this incident (NOW) I can say i am back to normal in terms of erection ability etc. but it takes physical stimulation. Also in the back of my mind I always have this memory of ED which associates with sex now. That sucks big time. It;s so hard to keep something like that out of your mind. Thankfully it dosn't affect me too much, but i know for a fact I would be way hornier and carefree if that never happened to me.

I know though there are people who took finasteride who have had it way worse than me, thankfully i recovered and as i said, I seem to be only mentally damaged. Well actually in saying that, i can't say i'm 100% the way i was, as i rarely get morning woods now. Pre finasteride days, EVERYDAY I got morning wood.

So yeah just my 2 cent. Wouldn't want you to go through that man. I mean, my hair is still thinning. IT SUCKS BIG TIME, but once you get ED due to some f*****g hairloss pill, then you put things in perspective. Never again am I touching that pill EVER.

 

[freakout]

Here is the thing about finasteride:
It does not work on the upper temples and receding hairlines.
10% will get no results.
about 30% will continue losing albeit at a slower rate
about 30% will maintain
about 30% will regrow often times measly.
DHT direct effect is a theory so don't pay too much attention to it.

minoxidil is effective, according to the original maker, for 90% of users. However, an independent study puts it at only 52%. I can't recall how this efficacy is distributed among this 52%.

Nizoral is a far thrid. I would guess at 15% efficacy?

Can somebody verify these?

MBP is associated with prostate cancer. Dairy is associated with prostate cancer. What does that tell you? Is dairy involved in male pattern baldness. That's up to you. Note that association does not mean causation.

how much dairy do you take?

I wouldn't know about the efficacy of other treatments.

 

[Rawtashk]

Do some more research on minoxidil. It does nothing to address the root cause of hairloss. It's like if you have stinky garbage, so instead of taking it out you just put some air freshener in your kitchen. Sooner or later that stink is going to get worse and worse, up to the point where all the air freshener in the world won't do anything to cover it up.

That's what minoxidil by itself does, covers it up.

 

[gh05]

Wow this is frustrating. I just don't know if anyone is reading my posts properly.

First off, Pyro - thanks for your input - I will take it on board.

Freakout, thanks for your reply. No I really don't take much dairy at all. I used to but i don't now.

Rawtashk...did you even read my post??? I said this: "Then I'm confused over how some people say that minoxidil basically wont work as it doesnt block DHT and then some say it will work because it makes the follicles stronger and more able to combat DHT." i.e. I AM unsure. It's getting really tiring hearing these analogies about hair loss and it seems nobody really understands it - again, some people say that minoxidil promotes blood circulation helping it to be stronger to fight the effects of DHT. If this were the case, how can anyone say that it only disgusises the issue until it's too late? It is said that it does help to maintain hair growth. If you don't know for sure then please don't speculate and call it fact. I also asked about the minoxidil with azleic acid etc etc..

Captain Combover...would appreciate a response to my questions if possible. Also, how is it ever possible to say that I will be NW4+ in 3 years?? Isn't it true that male pattern baldness can stabilise at any time? What confuses me more is that I've looked at your own story and you've said you are less than NW4 now after finasteride? but it seems I'm quite a long way off the stage that you are at even now. I don't mean to offend you by saying that but hey I am younger I suppose. You see, taking finasteride is a massive decision for someone like me and I don't want to be scared into it without absolute reason. Again, what did it matter for me to say I've always had naturally fine hair?

Anyone else got comments? Ths thread has had about 400 views and only the same few people have replied!?

 

[Danik0226]

I would be more worried about your crown than your hair line. While it receded a bit on the sides, your crown is thinning quite a bit. I personally do not believe in the fear over finasteride. If you notice sides, then simply stop use. If there are long term effects for some people, I would imagine it would be over years of use. Also, I found that some of the side effects were lessened by working out, especially with weights. If I were you, I would go with the big 3 (finasteride, minoxidil, and nizoral). The combination is probably very effective for people who are just starting to thin.

 

[gh05]

I asked if you have had naturally fine hair all your life because;-
1. To determine if your hair is minitaurising. eg Was it once thick and has thinned over the years.
2. To ascertain how bad your crown is. Now that i know you have always had thin hair, i can see your crown is not as bad as first thought.

I said you could be NW4+ in three years because;-
You may have naturally aggressive hairloss, now that i know you that you have been losing your hair for at least 3yrs then it could be slow or slow to moderate male pattern baldness.

male pattern baldness can slow down at any stage. Not everyone who is balding is going to end up a NW7. I think my male pattern baldness virtually halted on it's own at NW5, but i still maintained a good hairline at the front and can pull off a damn good combover lol. But i have responded well to treatments thus far and am now between a NW3-4, bit of concealor on my crown and i have a full head of hair.

If you are not willing to try finasteride yet, i don't think you are going to lose too much ground by putting it off for a year. My advice would would be take PICS in the most harshest light once a month on all parts of your hair. Stop using minoxidil 2% and start using minoxidil 5%. Do not give minoxidil up, a lot of the hair on your head may be dependant on it now. eg the hair on your head say 20% is only still there because you are continously using minoxidil.

The pattern of your hairloss is similar to mine, my hair was like yours when i was 18 (15yrs ago). I had thin hair and my crown looked like yours does now. But when i was 21 my crown was beginning to dissapear. So keep an eye on that crown.

Ok, thanks for your response.

btw, I only currently use minoxidil on the very corners of the hairline.

 

[gh05]

I would be more worried about your crown than your hair line. While it receded a bit on the sides, your crown is thinning quite a bit. I personally do not believe in the fear over finasteride. If you notice sides, then simply stop use. If there are long term effects for some people, I would imagine it would be over years of use. Also, I found that some of the side effects were lessened by working out, especially with weights. If I were you, I would go with the big 3 (finasteride, minoxidil, and nizoral). The combination is probably very effective for people who are just starting to thin.

Maybe I'm more worried about the hairline because I see it more. I hate waking up in the morning to see my hair 'clumped together' in the middle of my hairline and the corners looking completely thin and see through. I just don't know about the crown...I don't have pics to compare to but I know I've always had very thin hair and a prominent crown.

You say there are long term effects for some people but you imagine these would be after years of use - what exactly do you think that this would be?? Finasteride is a life long commitment - if you stop taking it then basically any hair that you kept will fall out super quick!

Did you have any side effects with finasteride at all? I assume you did as you say t has been lessened by doing weights. Have you got any pics?

 

[gh05]

Just an update guys -

I went to see a hair surgeon and dermatologist (only for his opinion and not for a transplant). He was surprised that I was so concerned about my hair because in his opinion it looked normal.

I showed him the thinning hairline and he told me that pretty much everyone gets that and he showed me where the imaginary line which he would usually try to bring restoration too which was an inch or two about my hairline.

He did notice that my hair was very thin...which it always has been and said it could be diffuse thinning/miniaturisation but said it was hard to tell as he had not seen my hair before. I pointed out my crown and he said that I had plenty of hair there and there was no room if he wanted to transplant for new hair - just that my individual hairs all over were a bit thin.

I discussed minoxidil and finasteride with him - he said not to mess around with anything that is not FDA approved. He said that I could try finasteride as a precaution that my hair didn't get worse and added that it was way more effective than minoxidil but pointed out that minoxidil was also proven to slow down male pattern baldness and regrow hair.

I was wary of finasteride and all the side effects - he advises that people take it after they've had children but wasn't aware of cases of serious irreversible sexual side effects in his patients. He did say that with prostate cancer history in my family then this could be an issue as it was very hard to detect cancer if on finasteride (even with changing calculations) and said you needed to be off finasteride for at least 6 months for detection of prostate cancer, He said finasteride could mask symptoms of prostate cancer so by the time people find out they have it, it has already spread.

He advised that if I was concerned enough about my hair and side effects of finasteride then I should use 5% minoxidil all over...I'm wary of doing this all over as I believe it 'may' have made my hair loss worse (he disagreed) - so I will use it just on the thinner areas of the hairline for now and see if it progresses.

He also added that nizoral may assist a bit if hair loss was caused by poor quality of the scalp/fungus.

All in all, he didn't think I had so much to worry about.

Comments?