Hellouser's Complete Ru58841 Usage Guide

hellouser

Senior Member
My Regimen
I've decided to update my old RU guide and make a video to go along with it with some tips on dermarolling, prep, etc. Hopefully this helps the noobies as well as some small tricks for old timers.


What You Need

1. RU58841 (roughly $100 per 10g)
2. Everclear Alcohol (95% / 190 Proof)
3. Propylene Glycol (PG) (roughly $3.00 for 200ml)
4. 1ml Dropper
5. Small bottles
6. Airtight containers
7. 0.001g Scale (roughly $30.00)
8. Small measuring spoon
9. Dermaroller
10. Exfoliating Cream

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What is a ‘Vehicle’

RU powder cannot be applied directly on the scalp with the hopes of being effective. It needs to penetrate the skin and work it’s magic where the hair follicle lives. This can only be done when RU is mixed into a solution in which it is dissolved completely. Once dissolved, the solution carries the RU through your skin, acting as a vehicle. Your solution should end up looking completely clear. In this guide I show and explain how to use RU with Everclear and PG. There is also another popular one (as mentioned previously) called KB. KB is a prepared vehicle, so you won't need to mix any alcohols and PG together which is a bonus, but the downside is you don't have control over the ratio between alcohol/pg. I like to use either 60/40 ratio of Everclear/PG or 70/30. For reference, I believe Minoxidil uses a 50/50 mix of PG and whatever else is used.

How To Mix:

1. For the sake of simplicity, we’ll make 10ml worth of RU ready to be applied. For this we’ll use a 5% concentration. 5% for 1ml of the vehicle equates to 50mg of RU. Using your digital scale and scoop, weigh however much you'd like to use. Don't use more than 100mg (side effects are more likely to happen), although 40-75mg per 1ml seems to be the norm. Make sure to use the TARE function when you've got your small plate on the scale, obviously this cannot be weighed as part of the RU powder so you'll need to be at 0.000 weight before beginning.

2. Dump 500mg of RU into your bottle.

3. Using your 1ml dropper, pour 0.7ml of Everclear into the bottle and mix by stirring with the dropper. I typically mix the RU and Everclear a little more by squeezing in and squeezing out the mixed solution with the dropper. Having it just sit doesn't dissolve it completely (but it will dissolve on it’s own eventually). I do this for about 30 seconds though. You can shake the bottles as well.

4. Using your 1ml dropper again, pour in 0.3ml of PG into the bottle and mix it again with the RU and Everclear. I typically wait a couple minutes for it to mix in completely. Or just stir/shake.

Note: Try not to buy anything thats an 'all-in-one' as the efficacy in that might be questionable compared to fresh daily or multiple day batches of mixed RU. I typically make 10 applications at once, sometimes more as I can’t be bothered to do this daily. Yes it only takes a moment, but after a while, you won’t want to keep doing it, we’ve all got better things to do in the end.
You’re ready to apply.

Before Application

1. Exfoliate! This is actually good because it removes old skin and improves penetration of RU, Minoxidil and other topicals. Try to buy yourself an exfoliating cream. They’re not too expensive, maybe $25 at the most but you won't use much of it anyway, just around the hairline/temples or wherever needed. I typically exfoliate before showering. Let the cream sit for about 1-2 minutes though.

2. Dermaroll. This is a whole topic of it’s own and works on the wounding theory, similar to that of the work by Follica. However, this has a whole host of benefits. First, you can use either a dermaroller, dermastamp, or dermapen. All work similarly and all are relatively inexpensive ($10-$30). Dermarolling will create wider wounds and will be more painful. Dermastamp will hurt much less but the wounds will be smaller. Dermapens allow for more precise wounding. There are also awesome dermapens like the ‘Derminator’ which are automatic and allow for adjustments of how deep the needles are. Typically you will want to use a 1.5mm length needles in a dermaroller. I believe these can go up to 3.00mm. As of writing this, I think I’ve only seen 2.5mm be used by some individuals and I imagine it to be quite painful. Most of topical treatments used take into consideration the 500 dalton rule; RU has a molecular weight of 369. Minoxidil is 209. Dermarolling opens up the skin much more and allows greater molecular weight to pass through (I believe up to tens of thousands, but do NOT quote me on this).

To use, make sure to press with enough pressure that the needles are actually being used to their length. This will cause bleeding but erythema will also happen (skin reddening). If you bleed, this is where I suggest you wash off the blood from your scalp and use a black towel (you don’t want to ruin white towels). If you don’t rinse off any blood, it will dry up and your scalp with have dark spots on it as if you’ve got rashes.

In a nutshell, dermarolling induces wound healing. See below for what happens during. Follica’s work is based on this, so you can be fairly confident that it works.

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Even if you don’t use the dermaroller for your scalp, it also helps with wrinkles.

3. Wash your hair. Doing so will rid your scalp of sebum (that oily substance we all know that makes your scalp all shiny).

Application

1. If you’ve washed your hair, apply your topicals within 30 minutes after your hair has dried, otherwise sebum will start producing again and will take away from your efforts.

2. If using on your hairline, be aware that the RU solution is a bit watery so its best to apply WITHIN and behind the hairline. You'll want to preserve what may be receded but potentially also regrow any hair. This way, youre not just applying it the slick bald spots, you want to maintain as well! If you apply it just outside the hairline to regrow anything, you'll find that a lot of runs down your head and go to waste.

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Storage

Keep your RU powder sealed and in the fridge or better yet in the freezer to have the efficacy last for as long as possible. I've read that RU can withstand several weeks in normal room temperature before it goes bad, but don't risk that and just store it in the fridge/freezer. Also, make sure it is kept AWAY from light and sealed airtight. I have mine stored in a small plastic bottle closed tight but I also put the bottle another airtight container.

How long will RU58841 last?

It depends on the concentration. The higher concentration, the better the efficacy, the shorter it will last you and the more its going to cost you. It’s also going to depend how many times a day you apply and if you apply more than 1ml per application. 10mg of RU in 1ml is useless. Don't expect results. 20mg isnt going to do much either, so don't bother. I wouldn't go below 50mg (maybe 40mg).

If you use 100mg/1ml and apply once daily, then do the math;

10grams (10,000mg) / 100mg = 100 applications

Since I use RU once daily, that obviously gives me 200 days worth of usage at 5% concentration (50mg/1ml), so a little over 6 months.

Notes:

Mixing topicals with this method basically applies to all other stuff like CB, Lithium Chloride, SETI. However, not all compounds will dissolve in any vehicle, thus the need to use other stuff like DMI/DMSO, Oleyl, etc.

I typically apply Minoxidil after RU, I’ve found that it dries up quicker than minoxidil. I typically apply RU and then minoxidil about 30 minutes later and head to bed.

On the topic of other topicals, I use all inhibitors first and then the rest.



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At the time of this writing, we're about 2 weeks away from the 2017 Hair Congress. If you're anxious to know new developments in hair loss research, we're running another fundraiser to get news from presentations, interviews and more from this year's congress. Visit the link below to donate:

https://www.gofundme.com/hair-congress-2017
 
Last edited:

Longway886

Established Member
My Regimen
Would a reliable member not be interested in packaging this up into monthly bundles with a small mark up and shipping to who ever signs up? Getting everything in bulk would reduce the cost..
 

RegenWaiting

Established Member
My Regimen
What is the reason(s) you don't just dump it in minoxidil?

Good job btw. Again.
 

Mach

Established Member
I use a boar brush to exfoliate. I'm talking the hard bristles.
DR and run those bristles on your head.
 

vegetassj

Established Member
Thank you for your perfect informative post.

Would you say that 2% RU is also effective?
Dermaroll every day?
 

MrV88

Senior Member
My Regimen
Do you apply RU right after dermarolling? Thought we should wait at least 24 hours after rolling.
 

Keisi92

Member
My Regimen
A list of side effects would be useful. Also an idea of what we could expect in terms of results.
 
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hellouser

Senior Member
My Regimen
What is the reason(s) you don't just dump it in minoxidil?

Good job btw. Again.

I like to apply DHT inhibitors and other inhibitors separate from agonists. IE; RU, SETI, etc. first to block all the negative factors and then promote hair growth with minoxidil, LiCl, etc.

My minoxidil's vehicle is pretty oily too, would take a long time for it to dry so the custom vehicle makes sense.

Thank you for your perfect informative post.

Would you say that 2% RU is also effective?
Dermaroll every day?

I dermaroll once a week tops. If you look at the chart, all of the good stuff that happens post wounding is at three weeks. So once every three weeks should be enough.

I wouldn't bother with 2% RU.

Do you apply RU right after dermarolling? Thought we should wait at least 24 hours after rolling.

Nope. RU before, typically or I skip that day. Dermarolling increases absorption by a lot so the chances of RU going systemic and giving side effects are much greater.

Its odd hearing your voice.

It's odd for me too. lol
 

countjulian

Senior Member
My Regimen
I like to apply DHT inhibitors and other inhibitors separate from agonists. IE; RU, SETI, etc. first to block all the negative factors and then promote hair growth with minoxidil, LiCl, etc.

My minoxidil's vehicle is pretty oily too, would take a long time for it to dry so the custom vehicle makes sense.



I dermaroll once a week tops. If you look at the chart, all of the good stuff that happens post wounding is at three weeks. So once every three weeks should be enough.

I wouldn't bother with 2% RU.



Nope. RU before, typically or I skip that day. Dermarolling increases absorption by a lot so the chances of RU going systemic and giving side effects are much greater.



It's odd for me too. lol

Does RU not usually go systematic?
 

Aliens

Established Member
Hello!


Thank you very much for this informative post! I have two questions if you do not mind answering them:

- I had allergies using liquid version of minoxidil, so now I use to foam. I think using the KB solution might be the best option for me. Does it sound good to you?

- are you mixing yourself the powder and the vehicle because of some issues with stability of the molecule?


In order to start with RU I am thinking about getting the 5% K solution, should I bother with it or it wont be strong//stable enough for any effect?


Thank you so much!
 

BaldyBalderBald

Banned
My Regimen
Does RU not usually go systematic?

that is THE question . Unfortunately, I doubt we will ever know it :(

There was a study done back in 1998 on macaques, i don't know if this is really reliable.

Conclusion states that no systemic effects were detected.

Evaluation of RU58841 as an anti-androgen in prostate PC3 cells and a topical anti-alopecia agent in the bald scalp of stumptailed macaques.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9798729


But, no dermarolling in their protocol and as Hellouser said, it may increseases systemic absorption.So, who knows...you could get some blood tests done before starting it, and a few months after to be sure.
 

jamesbooker1975

Senior Member
My Regimen
There was a study done back in 1998 on macaques, i don't know if this is really reliable.

Conclusion states that no systemic effects were detected.

Evaluation of RU58841 as an anti-androgen in prostate PC3 cells and a topical anti-alopecia agent in the bald scalp of stumptailed macaques.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9798729


But, no dermarolling in their protocol and as Hellouser said, it may increseases systemic absorption.So, who knows...you could get some blood tests done before starting it, and a few months after to be sure.

Thanks for the link. Did't know it.
About blood test the problem is what to check, since is an antiandrogen, it should not change your hormones, may be, it actually increase the androgens levels since you block it ( if it go systemic ) if body will "sense " that there are less androgens and produce more.
 
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