Having Issues With minoxidil, Wanting To Try minoxidil Sulfate. Need Some Help Pleez. | HairLossTalk Forums

Having Issues With minoxidil, Wanting To Try minoxidil Sulfate. Need Some Help Pleez.

Discussion in 'Growth Stimulants - Rogaine, Minoxidil, Tricomin,' started by Georgie, Feb 17, 2018.

  1. Georgie

    Georgie Senior Member My Regimen

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    This is a longish post, but please bear with me. This could be useful for anyone else with shitty reactions to regular minoxidil.

    I’ve posted about this before, and spoken about it a fair bit, but given that I’ve not found anything yet which seems to help the situation, I’m on a mission to test new theories to see if I can un-fuck this fucked cycle.

    A bit of info:

    I began using topical and oral minoxidil in June-July 2015. Got the mega shed, then saw some regrowth 3-4 months later. A few months after that, I noticed that my hairline was receding again, that my hair density everywhere was still getting worse, that my lashes and brows were getting thinner etc. By Feb 2016 I’d had enough and shaved my hair off. I had been taking spironolactone 200mg with the minoxidil up to that point and dropped it because it was making me sick. I had also been taking the pill Diane35, neither of which seemed to halt shedding or loss. Fast forward to June-July 2016. My hair had grown out a bit and my hairline seemed incredibly abundant once more. I thought maybe I’d just gone through a shedding phase and everything was fine. Well, by November-December 2016, I realised once again that my hairline was receding and density was going down, the eyelash/brow thing etc. I told myself maybe it was just another little shed. I kept up with 2mg oral minoxidil/2 x a day 5% topical and Diane. Then comes June 2017. I had been in blissful denial for months. I knew that my hairline was less, but I chose to ignore it. Then June 2017 came around and it was too obvious to ignore. The recession was at its worst again. This continued until August. I was relieved when I saw my hairline growing back, and thought “well maybe that’s the final time that will happen”. Blissful ignorance again until November 2017, when after 3 months of growth, recession began again. All the while, even through the “growth” periods, my hair all over has thinned, particularly on top. So the issue? Oral minoxidil only grows my hair for 3 months out of the year, then like a switch gets turned off, it stops growing hair for 9 months. In this period, hairs rapidly become miniturised, then fall out, leading to fast retrograde (entire hairline) recession, patchy, fine body hair regrowth, and loss of density on my scalp. I’ve thought about how maybe DHT effects the cycle of hair growth even with minoxidil, so I began avodart 0.5mg in November 2017. Almost at the end of Feb 2018, and the rate of hairline recession is no different. I have also been consistently taking estrogen, and recently (almost a month ago) added topical darolutamide, stemoxydine, and a few extra supplements.

    I have considered that it might be anaemia. I had a blood infusion some months ago with never made an ounce of diference.
    I’ve had every test you can believe. I’ve come to the conclusion that, for whatever reason, minoxidil just doesn’t work the way it should for me.
    Additionally, I feel like the topical actually does nothing, because I’ve tested patches on my eyebrows and body for months and months and it makes no difference.

    Here’s what I propose:

    I cannot come off minoxidil because it could totally fuck things up badly. My hairloss without minoxidil Is basically the 9 months when it stops working - that is, I literally do not grow any hair. It miniturises then falls out, and my hairline recedes FAST. Before treatment, it only took me a year to go from normal to my hairline being almost behind my ears (and yes, I’ve been biopsied, it’s Androgenetic Alopecia). So if I drop it, I lose my hair and it doesn’t grow. End of story. So, given that the oral minoxidil works SOME of the time, and the topical doesn’t work ANY of the time, I wonder if adding minoxidil sulfate topical would counter the “non growing” periods of the oral minoxidil. I know that it can work if I take it by mouth, but I clearly hair low sulfotransferase follicle activity, so perhaps stimulating the follicles locally with the already metabolised enzyme will give consistent regrowth when my liver isn’t metabolising the oral drug.

    SO. My questions:

    - Has anyone got experience with topical minoxidil sulfate?
    - Can I buy premixed solutions anymore? I have seen threads that talking about “liquid” forms, but that was a few years ago. Maybe that isn’t sold anymore.
    - if I can’t get a premade, any ideas about good powder suppliers?
    - If I were to create a topical from the powder, does anyone have any idea how to go about it?
    - Best vehicle/carrier?
    - How to make a 5% solution?

    I have read that it can be unstable and separates after short periods in any solution, so I may just make a new batch daily or every few days.

    Guys, I’m fucking desperate here. Yes, I have considered dropping minoxidil, but I feel like the fallout from that would be absolutely disasterous, and I would not cope with that. I’m alreast barely coping. I would rather exhaust every option that I have before I give up on it. I have underlying hormonal issues which are and have been addressed in basically every way possible. It’s not autoimmune hairloss. I know WHY I have hairloss, but I can’t understany why I am the only one with this reaction to minoxidil. So I need more. If there’s a “switch” somehwere in my hair follicles, I need to turn that on and keep it on.

    Any advice is greatly appreciated.
     
    #1 Georgie, Feb 17, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2018
  2. Georgie

    Georgie Senior Member My Regimen

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  3. bridgeburn

    bridgeburn Senior Member My Regimen

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  4. Georgie

    Georgie Senior Member My Regimen

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  5. bridgeburn

    bridgeburn Senior Member My Regimen

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    you'll have to make sure its legit and prepare every few days. sounds to me like too much of a pain in the ass
     
  6. Georgie

    Georgie Senior Member My Regimen

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    Yeah it would be daily batches. The info on it says 25ml/ml soluble in DMSO, so I guess that’s what I’d be doing. Legitimacy is the difficult part. It’s awfully cheap on alibaba which makes me way too suspicious. On the legit chemical websites it’s like $86 for 5mg and $200-250 for a kilo on alibaba. Very sketchy. Shit i want to try it though.
     
  7. AllerganSaveUs

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    Hello, I can't give you much information about Minoxidil sulfate. I can tell you that Minoxidil is very dose dependent. You know how only 30-50% of people respond to Minoxidil? What people often don't realize is that they can go from non-responders to good responders. As you probably know, Minoxidil does not cause the actual hair growth, it is Minoxidil sulfate that does. If you have a low amount of the Minoxidil enzyme (sulfotransferase enzyme) you will not have any hair growth with Minoxidil.

    Dr.Goren found that the non-responders can become good responders by going from 5% Minoxidil to a higher concentration of Minoxidil. When the non-responders went from 5% to a higher dosage they had the same results as the good responders (a dosage not specified, but it is a dosage that gives double the bioavailability of 5% Minoxidil). Source: Last 3 paragraphs here https://www.hairlosstalk.com/news/conferences/9th-world-congress-2015/goren-minoxidil/2/

    Currently, there are no studies on higher dosages of Minoxidil so I don't know the exact percent you are looking for. Here is more evidence other than Dr.Goren's findings that Minoxidil is dose dependent: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3947124
    Furthermore, people who are good responders can go to great responders because of Minoxidil's dose dependency. Basically, if you are desperate like you are saying (lol) then you should hike the dose either orally, topically, or both.

    Here is a newer study showing 0.25mg Minoxidil with 25 mg spironolactone being effective in female pattern hair loss: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29231239
    I see that you had side effects with 200mg sprionolactone, I would recommend you try a lower dose if you think you can handle it or/and try to find a way to reverse the side effects, similar to how you can reverse Minoxidil side effects by drinking a lot of water and caffeine etc. I believe that somewhere between 1-5mg Minoxidil and 25-50mg sprionolactone should help with your hair a lot. I am not a doctor. Good luck!
     
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  8. Georgie

    Georgie Senior Member My Regimen

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    Thanks so much for your info, I sincerely appreciate the time you took to write that.

    Few issues:
    I can’t go above 2.5-3mg oral minoxidil because it gives me chest pain and makes me very bloated. I did try spironolactone on a very low dose of 25mg and it still affects me. My body is just super sensitive.

    I would maybe like to try a 10% topical. Know of anywhere that sells the higher dose stuff? Otherwise I guess I could just buy the powder and mix my own, but that’s kind of a hasslez
     
  9. AllerganSaveUs

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    Sorry, read that wrong. Minoxidilmax sells higher concentrations as well as eBay. Also, make sure you get enough iron+iodine.
     
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  10. Georgie

    Georgie Senior Member My Regimen

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    I actually have loniten pills by prescription from my derm (10mg). Reckon I could crush some up and add them to my 5% liquid? What’s the dose of minoxidil per ml for 5%?
     
  11. dm900

    dm900 Member My Regimen

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    Mixing daily doses probably wouldn't fix the instability issue. The only example I have read of minoxidil-sulfate producing results was done with iontophoresis.
     
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  12. Georgie

    Georgie Senior Member My Regimen

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    I read that too. Think it’s probably a dead end.
     
  13. dm900

    dm900 Member My Regimen

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    I believe a few years back a few teams were experimenting with a liposomal microsphere delivery system for minoxidil sulfate. I think it was dropped for whatever reason which is a shame because minoxidil can be a mircale drug when you consider it literally repairs many of the cycles that DHT throws out of regulation.
     
  14. Georgie

    Georgie Senior Member My Regimen

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    Apparently doesn’t repair them for me.
     
  15. dm900

    dm900 Member My Regimen

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    Yes unfortunately I forgot to add "if you are a great responder aka about 10% of users". Minoxidil did nothing for me. I used twice daily for six months. No initial shed, no shed after quitting nothing.
     
  16. Georgie

    Georgie Senior Member My Regimen

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    Never tried it orally? Apparently sometimes you can bypass the issue through liver metlabolism.

    It’s strange that I’m somehwere in between a responded and a nonresponder. Frustrating as f**k and now I can’t quit it because nothing else works.
     
  17. HairCook

    HairCook Experienced Member My Regimen

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    Injecting it is straight up the best approach.
     
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  18. Georgie

    Georgie Senior Member My Regimen

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    Has anyone actually tried self-administered subcut minoxidil sulfate ? Because give me it.
     
  19. dm900

    dm900 Member My Regimen

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    I'm not comfortable taking oral minoxidil because i'm very susceptible to water retention.
     
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  20. rclark

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    @Georgie

    You need to JUMP up the Minoxidil percentage. Believe me, you will start seeing results.

    Read the Hair Loss 2015 Congress page, it says it all.

    People who don't respond well to regular dosages, generally will respond, once they hit
    a certain Minoxidil percentage.

    That said, for men (don't know about women), Minoxidil won't make permanent hair regrowth
    changes, without taking something else.
     

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