Hair Multiplication/Cloning Human Trials 2023: Yokohama National University

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trialAcc

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Keratinpro said:
I feel like you are one of those babies that need to be told the same thing again and again. You might be put in time out soon. We'll go over this again Kermit, Stemson is less complex than Tsuji, its method of hair multiplication is more general. It's extracting iPSCs and differentiating them into eventual hair follicles. Tsuji is a lot more specific where hair follicles from the donor region need being multiplied, it is more complex. Secondly the Stemson team have said on more than one occasion that their targeted audience is to the wider population including kids who've lost hair at a young age. They want to implement this to the wider public and you can't do that with an insane price tag, obviously from the release date it will be pricey because it is a completely new method that's never been done before but eventually the price will come down fairly quickly. I know you will ask about the price of Stemson again in a couple of weeks so bookmark this so you can go back to it.
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It's not that it's less complex, it's just science that translates to scale more effectively.

Tsuji needs to extract donor follicles and culture tens of thousands of follicle germs, then manually implant them. Stemson's second product won't even be using your own cells, they'll be using analogous blank iPSCs cells from cultured lines. This means that any person can walk off the street and get this done relatively quickly without a prolonged wait period for follicle development. They're also working on advancing robotics to be able to aid in the transplanting of the scaffolds which could make this process very quick for areas that are not the hairline or crown whirl pattern, but even those could be solved if they train the ML model of the robot correctly.

It's still going to be expensive, but if they do come out with similar pricing to Tsuji this will be another large scale flop. I don't think Tsuji's pricing is what it is because of the difference in complexity or effort even, I just think they want the margins of the procedure it be massive. I cannot imagine the expense to perform it could be in the 6 figures, even factoring in the surgeons labour.
 
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Keratinpro

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trialAcc said:
It's not that it's less complex, it's just science that translates to scale more effectively.

Tsuji needs to extract donor follicles and culture tens of thousands of follicle germs, then manually implant them. Stemson's second product won't even be using your own cells, they'll be using analogous blank iPSCs cells from cultured lines. This means that any person can walk off the street and get this done relatively quickly without a prolonged wait period for follicle development. They're also working on advancing robotics to be able to aid in the transplanting of the scaffolds which could make this process very quick for areas that are not the hairline or crown whirl pattern, but even those could be solved if they train the ML model of the robot correctly.

It's still going to be expensive, but if they do come out with similar pricing to Tsuji this will be another large scale flop. I don't think Tsuji's pricing is what it is because of the difference in complexity or effort even, I just think they want the margins of the procedure it be massive. I cannot imagine the expense to perform it could be in the 6 figures, even factoring in the surgeons labour.
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Well said
 
K

Keratinpro

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trialAcc said:
It's not that it's less complex, it's just science that translates to scale more effectively.

Tsuji needs to extract donor follicles and culture tens of thousands of follicle germs, then manually implant them. Stemson's second product won't even be using your own cells, they'll be using analogous blank iPSCs cells from cultured lines. This means that any person can walk off the street and get this done relatively quickly without a prolonged wait period for follicle development. They're also working on advancing robotics to be able to aid in the transplanting of the scaffolds which could make this process very quick for areas that are not the hairline or crown whirl pattern, but even those could be solved if they train the ML model of the robot correctly.

It's still going to be expensive, but if they do come out with similar pricing to Tsuji this will be another large scale flop. I don't think Tsuji's pricing is what it is because of the difference in complexity or effort even, I just think they want the margins of the procedure it be massive. I cannot imagine the expense to perform it could be in the 6 figures, even factoring in the surgeons labour.
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But I personally can never imagine Stemson coming out with a similar price to Tsuji, especially since he is wanting to mass produce for the wider population. I mean $300K, and mature price $182K?? Tsuji must have at least 50% of his brain matter eroded. Stemson's method certainly does seem in line for somewhere in the mid 5 figures. I might not be 100% here, but if the trials on the pigs are a massive success, I do believe that this will translate to humans just as effectively because of a very similar skin structure meaning that the clinical trials can run fairly smoothly resulting in it coming to the clinic faster rather them just using mice as their pre-clinical trial. Of course safety is the priority. Alexey timeline was 2023-2024(the earliest) after all, so I feel like the move of using pigs as their pre-clinical was a smart one.
 
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Chads don't bald

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trialAcc said:
I just think they want the margins of the procedure it be massive. I cannot imagine the expense to perform it could be in the 6 figures, even factoring in the surgeons labour.
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I think it's very telling that Tsuji can't even get his measly $5 million in funding that he needs. I wonder if Tsuji could make a larger overall profit offering lower price treatment to a much greater population than his insanely priced treatment to a small fraction of the population. Maybe investors think the former will be more profitable and for some reason Tsuji is adamant on keeping the price sky high, and that's why he isn't able to get basic funding.

Either that or investors don't believe his technology will work.
 
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Keratinpro

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Chads don't bald said:
I think it's very telling that Tsuji can't even get his measly $5 million in funding that he needs. I wonder if Tsuji could make a larger overall profit offering lower price treatment to a much greater population than his insanely priced treatment to a small fraction of the population. Maybe investors think the former will be more profitable and for some reason Tsuji is adamant on keeping the price sky high, and that's why he isn't able to get basic funding.

Either that or investors don't believe his technology will work.
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I don’t think it’s necessarily to do with whether it works or not because he has proven that he has been able to regenerate hair. I just believe he’s uneducated when it comes to the business side of things
 
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Super Metroid

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Keratinpro said:
I don’t think it’s necessarily to do with whether it works or not because he has proven that he has been able to regenerate hair. I just believe he’s uneducated when it comes to the business side of things
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Not in humans and certainly not at scale.

It would be extremely unprofessional if the lead scientist is also in charge of the business process. If he is foolish enough to believe that he can do everything at the same time, failure is the only logical consequence.

I don't buy the theory at all that there is this working solution that never gets progressed due to its invertors being commercial idiots that keep shooting themselves in the foot and don't seem to be able to get even the smallest amounts of funding.
 
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