Hair in resistant areas
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michael barry
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these hairs on the backs and sides of the head have less androgen receptor sites as a rule.
they may or may not have quite as active alpha five reductase type two enzymes in their root sheaths also, thus might make a bit less DHT. Then again, they may make the same amount.
They also might be more DHT-resistant than follicles on top of the head, and in fact are almost assuredly are.
However, Experiments have shown that if one adds a good amount of DHT or even Testsotoerone alone to these follicles in test tubes, they can become sensitive to male hormone and begin the miniaturization process.
If you look at the hippocratic wreaths of old men, you will see that they are thinned out and aged as compared to what they were in youth. Over time, male hormones age dermal tissues.
they may or may not have quite as active alpha five reductase type two enzymes in their root sheaths also, thus might make a bit less DHT. Then again, they may make the same amount.
They also might be more DHT-resistant than follicles on top of the head, and in fact are almost assuredly are.
However, Experiments have shown that if one adds a good amount of DHT or even Testsotoerone alone to these follicles in test tubes, they can become sensitive to male hormone and begin the miniaturization process.
If you look at the hippocratic wreaths of old men, you will see that they are thinned out and aged as compared to what they were in youth. Over time, male hormones age dermal tissues.
Ah interesting then someone who is sensitive to androgens will most likely experience some thinning even on the back and sides with most thinning of course in the male pattern baldness areas. Because i have noticed miniaturizing hairs even in the very back where they should be immune to dht unless its something else causing my hairloss.
So male hormones are completely responsible for all thinning? Is that why most women at 60 have teenage hair? I see a lot of women at 60 that have every hair on there head much like I once did. So by male hormones we are talking testosterone and DHT or are there others?
So male hormones are completely responsible for all thinning? Is that why most women at 60 have teenage hair? I see a lot of women at 60 that have every hair on there head much like I once did. So by male hormones we are talking testosterone and DHT or are there others?
michael barry
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DHT binds with receptor sites with roughly five times the affinity of Testosterone itself according to what Ive read lately. DHT and T are easily the primary androgens that cause male hairloss. Judging by the haircounts when one takes dutasteride, I think its rather safe to say that if you dont have anymore DHT, you probably will keep the hair you have for the most part. Other androgens can bind, and they elicit the same downstream response, but if DHT is taken away there is so much less androgenic stimulation in totality, that the other androgens probably cannot progress baldness very much all by themselves with out the DHT.
However, since finas only stops 80-85 percent or so of type 2 DHT, you still have enough for a very slow progression of baldness over many years on it.
DHT is made in the outer rootsheath of the hair follicle itself and the prostate tissues. Its in your beard and body hair too.
However, since finas only stops 80-85 percent or so of type 2 DHT, you still have enough for a very slow progression of baldness over many years on it.
DHT is made in the outer rootsheath of the hair follicle itself and the prostate tissues. Its in your beard and body hair too.
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michael barry said:
Hi michael barry,
Good point about finas only blocking 80-85% of the type 2. With dutasteride blocking more than 95% of type 2 in the follicles and half of type 1 to boot, what do you think the chances are that my hair never gets any worse than it is now while on avodart 0.5 mg every day and revita shampoo 5x a week? i also use nano shampoo 4 days a week and might add minoxidil in august. if my hair is still the same as it is now in 2012, is it safe to say that i'll keep it for life? i mean with only 2% or so of type 2 DHT remaining from the avodart, I'm not that worried about only 2%, but I am slightly worried about the other androgens like testosterone. you don't think these would progress it much if at all?
thanks. i know other people on here are wondering the same thing, like ccs, and others on dutasteride.
p.s.- do you think that avodart can help keep the hair on the sides and back of the head from thinning as it typically does with elderly balding men? i would think so.
p.p.s.- final question i thought of i promise. how much more DHT is there in the average balding man than plain testosterone? 10 times as much? I've never read anything on this so I'm curious. Doesn't all the testosterone that would have been converted to DHT had it not been avodart just end staying as plain testosterone that is free to damage hair on its own?
RaginDemon
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JayMan, where can I purchase the Revita shampoo? Thanks in advance bro
hair today gone tomorrow
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JayMan said:
Dude, do you constantly need reassurance from Michael Barry and Bryan? I mean Michael has already said that on dutasteride he THINKS you should keep your hair over baseline for 30 years....you know hes said this, and you have referenced it in your posts...Do you just wanna hear him say it again to calm your nerves...jesus man.
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hair today gone tomorrow said:
Dude, do you constantly need reassurance from Michael Barry and Bryan? I mean Michael has already said that on dutasteride he THINKS you should keep your hair over baseline for 30 years....you know hes said this, and you have referenced it in your posts...Do you just wanna hear him say it again to calm your nerves...jesus man.[/quote:080b6]
30 years is different from forever. i don't know about you but i'm not old.
hair today gone tomorrow
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michael barry said:
Michael..since dutas blocks so a large quantity of DHT...why arent all people STOPPPING hairloss with this? Why do some continue, or claim to continue losing hair?
hair today gone tomorrow
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im 23...i think u said your 22....lets see if your worried about your hair when you are 52...come on man. Cross that bridge when you get to it...and take everyone's posts here with a grain of salt INCLUDING Michael and Bryan.
Nathaniel
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hair today gone tomorrow said:
Michael..since dutas blocks so a large quantity of DHT...why arent all people STOPPPING hairloss with this? Why do some continue, or claim to continue losing hair?[/quote:4a140]
Depends. Very aggressive male pattern baldness will not be stopped, consider many variables coming to play (number of androgen receptors, DHT resistance, amount of type 2 enzyme etc).
And generally as you age you become more vulnerable.
Whats the significance of type 1 though? I mean we know 5ar2 is supposedly very important in hairloss or merk would have made a type 1 inhibitor. How do we know type 1 is as important in hairloss as type 2? Can anyone tell me what these enzymes even do other then saying they are found in high concentrations in certain spots and help convert to DHT which changes estrogen and such? I mean how much more detail then that do we know about these 2 enzymes type 1 specifically? I mean does lowering type 1 make your skin more resistant to aging or less? Does it increase wrinkling? how does collagen factor into this?
michael barry
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Jayman wrote:
"Hi michael barry,
Good point about finas only blocking 80-85% of the type 2. With dutasteride blocking more than 95% of type 2 in the follicles and half of type 1 to boot, what do you think the chances are that my hair never gets any worse than it is now while on avodart 0.5 mg every day and revita shampoo 5x a week? i also use nano shampoo 4 days a week and might add minoxidil in august. if my hair is still the same as it is now in 2012, is it safe to say that i'll keep it for life? i mean with only 2% or so of type 2 DHT remaining from the avodart, I'm not that worried about only 2%, but I am slightly worried about the other androgens like testosterone. you don't think these would progress it much if at all? =================================================================================================================================================using ketoconazole shampoo with the avodart (even though you are probably using it so often its going to make your hair and scalp kinda dry) probably is reducing your androgenic stimulation on the scalp to super low levels Jayman. I mean if fifteen years down the line your androgen receptors mutated or something wierd like that, I suppose further recession is possible, but I mean come on, how likely is that?
Furthermore, there will almost undoubtably be better treatments or a cure for baldness in the next 15 years anyway. Thats almost a worst case scenario.
thanks. i know other people on here are wondering the same thing, like ccs, and others on dutasteride.
p.s.- do you think that avodart can help keep the hair on the sides and back of the head from thinning as it typically does with elderly balding men? i would think so. ++++++++===============================================================================================================================================yes, absolutely. The years Ive been on finas, the wreath hair has absolutely remained the same. Its the last to go on bald guys, has the least amount of receptor sites in most folks. If there was senesent or age dependent thinning, I dont think it would be much until you were really getting up there
p.p.s.- final question i thought of i promise. how much more DHT is there in the average balding man than plain testosterone? 10 times as much? I've never read anything on this so I'm curious. Doesn't all the testosterone that would have been converted to DHT had it not been avodart just end staying as plain testosterone that is free to damage hair on its own?"++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++Testsosterone levels are raised on finas by something like 10 percent, I'd imagie dutas would raise them even more. But Testosterone, according to an article I just read on a good website whose name I forget, binds with five times less affinity to the receptor as DHT, and when it binds, it apparently doesnt bind as solidly. Men without alpha five type two dont lose their hair. There appears to be some threshold hair has to get with androgen stimulis before they can be susceptible to baldness. Testosterone is your main hormone.
Jayman, Im pretty sure youre contemplating a transplant to get a lower hairline, thus the queries about your future thinning. ICX will probably be releasing its test results sometime this year, fall or winter. If they are good, you might be able to get a HM hairline as low as you'd please. I'd wait if this is what your thinking about. Youre hair looks fine to me now anway.
"Hi michael barry,
Good point about finas only blocking 80-85% of the type 2. With dutasteride blocking more than 95% of type 2 in the follicles and half of type 1 to boot, what do you think the chances are that my hair never gets any worse than it is now while on avodart 0.5 mg every day and revita shampoo 5x a week? i also use nano shampoo 4 days a week and might add minoxidil in august. if my hair is still the same as it is now in 2012, is it safe to say that i'll keep it for life? i mean with only 2% or so of type 2 DHT remaining from the avodart, I'm not that worried about only 2%, but I am slightly worried about the other androgens like testosterone. you don't think these would progress it much if at all? =================================================================================================================================================using ketoconazole shampoo with the avodart (even though you are probably using it so often its going to make your hair and scalp kinda dry) probably is reducing your androgenic stimulation on the scalp to super low levels Jayman. I mean if fifteen years down the line your androgen receptors mutated or something wierd like that, I suppose further recession is possible, but I mean come on, how likely is that?
Furthermore, there will almost undoubtably be better treatments or a cure for baldness in the next 15 years anyway. Thats almost a worst case scenario.
thanks. i know other people on here are wondering the same thing, like ccs, and others on dutasteride.
p.s.- do you think that avodart can help keep the hair on the sides and back of the head from thinning as it typically does with elderly balding men? i would think so. ++++++++===============================================================================================================================================yes, absolutely. The years Ive been on finas, the wreath hair has absolutely remained the same. Its the last to go on bald guys, has the least amount of receptor sites in most folks. If there was senesent or age dependent thinning, I dont think it would be much until you were really getting up there
p.p.s.- final question i thought of i promise. how much more DHT is there in the average balding man than plain testosterone? 10 times as much? I've never read anything on this so I'm curious. Doesn't all the testosterone that would have been converted to DHT had it not been avodart just end staying as plain testosterone that is free to damage hair on its own?"++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++Testsosterone levels are raised on finas by something like 10 percent, I'd imagie dutas would raise them even more. But Testosterone, according to an article I just read on a good website whose name I forget, binds with five times less affinity to the receptor as DHT, and when it binds, it apparently doesnt bind as solidly. Men without alpha five type two dont lose their hair. There appears to be some threshold hair has to get with androgen stimulis before they can be susceptible to baldness. Testosterone is your main hormone.
Jayman, Im pretty sure youre contemplating a transplant to get a lower hairline, thus the queries about your future thinning. ICX will probably be releasing its test results sometime this year, fall or winter. If they are good, you might be able to get a HM hairline as low as you'd please. I'd wait if this is what your thinking about. Youre hair looks fine to me now anway.