Go Look For Lllt Device Instead Of Drugs. Science Proves It's The Most Effective Treatment!

ovdw

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This is a copy paste from an other thread. I thought it may be helpfull to make it it's own thread. Maybe I should've posted it in a different section.

I've been on mesotherapy, dutasteride for two years and started LLLT after. I began at 25 years old and am now 28 years (started LLLT at 27). This is my story. I am not selling nothing. Only want to make you at least aware for the opportunity instead of dangerous drugs that is less effective (according to science; check the journals yourself! For all of you har loss combatters:

[Go for a LLLT device. It is expensive in the short run (around 800$) but it lasts a lifetime and you dont need to buy minoxidil, finasteride or dutasteride your WHOLE life! So in the long run LLLT is cheaper. Above that, LLLT is NOT a drug, AND science proves it's the most efficient way to combat hairloss. Yes, even a receding hairline could reversed. I dont claim that someone who is completely bald would regain all off his hair. But in my case I recovered what was lost for 7 years. I went from Norwood 2 to a 1.5 or even better and i'm still improving. Plus my overall hear quality improved massively! Although I don't have clear before pictures, I do own a before and after (year in between those)report by a trichologist on the improvement of my hair.

The reason LLLT does not get the attention it deserves here is that the devices were ineffictive because they were not strong enough in the past or too cumbersome to use (like the comb varation which is ineffective because the duration of treatment per cm2 of scalp cannot be reached). Hence, look for a helmet that has at least 80 lasers (!) and NOT diodes. Such device would most effectively do the job. It's your best shot at recovering. Go for it, or at least read upon it!

I bought my helmet from an US based company. I think they ship to every country. I am not selling anything, therefore I dont want to mention the brand name unasked. I didnt do research on other manufacturers. Maybe there are plenty. Look for yourself. But remember at least 80 lasers and NOT diodes.

Start your research for instance at overmachogrande. Good luck!! Wish you the best]
 

IdealForehead

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Just so you know, I think you're mistaken on the technology when you say "lasers NOT diodes". All the laser caps I've seen use diodes. Studies also typically are diode based:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26048721

Diodes ARE lasers if you get the right kind. (Diode technology can be used to make lasers or LEDs.)

I think what you mean to say is "make sure you get a DIODE LASER and not an LED LIGHT", which is explained by a page on the site you linked here:

http://overmachogrande.com/omg/page/would-you-take-a-knife-to-a-gun-fight-laser-light-vs-led-light

Laser diodes are explained here.

I bought one of these types of laser caps 2 years ago (not same seller, but looks like same type):

https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-272-Di...LLLT-Hair-Growth-Loss-Cap-Helmet/122880270688

It wouldn't fit over my giant head though so I gave it to my mom and sister who suffer from mild hair loss as well. They enjoyed it for 2 years and it recently broke.

I do some LLLT on my hairline still with some pretty powerful lasers but I haven't noticed anything dramatic. If you really got the response you said, then you're a "high responder" for sure. That's not the common response. I think most people get a mild growth stimulation effect or nothing at all.

The main trouble with LLLT is that studies tend to show there is toxicity with too long and high intensity, and too low an effect with too short and too low intensity. So it's really a Goldilocks kind of treatment. I've always wondered with LLLT, "Am I overdoing it? Am I underdoing it?" And I never have any way of knowing for sure.
 
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IdealForehead

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Here's an article on LLLT using the HairMax Laser Comb:

http://www.ijtrichology.com/article...lume=6;issue=2;spage=45;epage=49;aulast=Munck

One example they provide is this guy who has a phenomenal approach (high responder probably like OP):

IntJTrichol_2014_6_2_45_138584_u7.jpg


Apparently he had been on minoxidil 5% only for the prior 4 years, and this before and after is after only 3 months of adding LLLT, 3x/week for 8-15 minutes.

This is obviously a freakishly good response. But it shows that yes it's theoretically possible to get really good results from LLLT.
 

IdealForehead

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Again from the site you linked OP, a good opinion article on how often it should be used:

http://overmachogrande.com/omg/page...hould-you-use-your-laser-device-for-hair-loss

Bottom line is he's recommending 3-5x/week.

Potential inhibitory effect risk with too frequent use is described by this graph, although he says some customers get benefits with up to 5x/week use:

cumulative-effect.jpg


He goes over duration of use for units with 5 mW diodes (which are standard) and basically suggests 20 minutes each time which is typical here:

http://overmachogrande.com/omg/page...wer_wavelengths_and_laser_therapy_terminology

Pretty good articles on that site even if it stylistically feels like the worse used car sales job in history!
 

buckthorn

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Here's an article on LLLT using the HairMax Laser Comb:

http://www.ijtrichology.com/article...lume=6;issue=2;spage=45;epage=49;aulast=Munck

One example they provide is this guy who has a phenomenal approach (high responder probably like OP):

View attachment 77094

Apparently he had been on minoxidil 5% only for the prior 4 years, and this before and after is after only 3 months of adding LLLT, 3x/week for 8-15 minutes.

This is obviously a freakishly good response. But it shows that yes it's theoretically possible to get really good results from LLLT.

doesn't show anything. 1) he has a completely different hair color in the after photo. Dying the hair will increase thickness, especially of the vellus hairs that have no pigment to begin with. 2) he basically has the same density 3) who says he's not wearing concealer? I am sorry, but this pic looks like bullshit to me.
 

ovdw

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Just so you know, I think you're mistaken on the technology when you say "lasers NOT diodes". All the laser caps I've seen use diodes. Studies also typically are diode based:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26048721

Diodes ARE lasers if you get the right kind. (Diode technology can be used to make lasers or LEDs.)

I think what you mean to say is "make sure you get a DIODE LASER and not an LED LIGHT", which is explained by a page on the site you linked here:

http://overmachogrande.com/omg/page/would-you-take-a-knife-to-a-gun-fight-laser-light-vs-led-light

Laser diodes are explained here.

I bought one of these types of laser caps 2 years ago (not same seller, but looks like same type):

https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-272-Di...LLLT-Hair-Growth-Loss-Cap-Helmet/122880270688

It wouldn't fit over my giant head though so I gave it to my mom and sister who suffer from mild hair loss as well. They enjoyed it for 2 years and it recently broke.

I do some LLLT on my hairline still with some pretty powerful lasers but I haven't noticed anything dramatic. If you really got the response you said, then you're a "high responder" for sure. That's not the common response. I think most people get a mild growth stimulation effect or nothing at all.

The main trouble with LLLT is that studies tend to show there is toxicity with too long and high intensity, and too low an effect with too short and too low intensity. So it's really a Goldilocks kind of treatment. I've always wondered with LLLT, "Am I overdoing it? Am I underdoing it?" And I never have any way of knowing for sure.

I did mean LED light. Sorry. I see you also ran over overmachogrande's website. Thanks for sharing. You definitely are well informed. What is your opinion on LLLT?
 

IdealForehead

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How does llt stop the miniaturization of the hair follicles?
Here's a detailed summary of evidence for LLLT including animal and human studies:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3944668/

The simplest answer is that the light at a red wavelength activates chromophores (light sensitive compounds) in the mitochondria of skin and hair cells which then stimulates a broad chemical cascade which promotes hair growth.

Although some of the outcomes of this cascade are similar to those provoked by topicals like minoxidil, it is a completely unique way of triggering the cascade, which likely explains why some people get a very good response. Everyone has different sensitivities to different approaches. As I said I have had a very weak response but I still do it because the principle is valid.

Full mechanism of action quote is as follows:

Evidence suggests that LLLT acts on the mitochondria and may alter cell metabolism through photodissociation of inhibitory nitric oxide (NO) from cytochrome c oxidase (CCO) [31] (Unit IV in the respiratory chain of mitochondria), causing increased ATP production, modulation of reactive oxygen species, and induction of transcription factors such as nuclear factor kappa B, and hypoxia-inducible factor-1 [32]. These transcription factors in return cause protein synthesis that triggers further effects down-stream, such as increased cell proliferation and migration, alteration in the levels of cytokines, growth factors and inflammatory mediators, and increased tissue oxygenation [32]. Moreover, NO is known to be a potent vasodilator via its effect on cyclic guanine monophosphate production and it can be speculated that LLLT may cause photodissociation of NO not only from CCO but also from intracellular stores such as nitrosylated forms of both hemoglobin and myoglobin leading to vasodilation and increased blood flow which was reported in several studies [3234]. Yamazaki and coworkers observed an upregulation of hepatocyte growth factor (HGF) and HGF activator expression following irradiation of the backs of Sprague Dawley rats with linear polarized infrared laser [35].

Some authors have drawn comparisons between the mechanism of action of LLLT and the mechanism of minoxidil. Even though the mechanism by which minoxidil promotes hair growth is not fully understood, it is known that minoxidil contains an N-oxide group which may be able to release NO, which is an important cellular signaling molecule involved in many physiological and pathological processes [36] and is also a vasodilator [37]. Furthermore, minoxidil is an ATP sensitive K+channel opener which in turn cause hyperpolarization of cell membranes [38]. Since ATP sensitive K+ channels in mitochondria and increased levels of NO [3941] may have some role to play in effects of LLLT in brain and heart [4143], given what is known about the role of K-ATP channels and NO in hair regrowth mediated by minoxidil, a mechanistic overlap can be identified. Weiss and coworkers, by using RT-PCR and microarray analysis, demonstrated that depending on the treatment parameters, LLLT modulates 5-α reductase expression, which converts testosterone into DHT, alters vascular endothelial growth factor gene expression as wells as matrix metalloproteinase (MMP-2) which have significant roles in hair follicle growth, and in turn the group reported stimulation of hair growth on human dermal papillae cells [4447]. Notably, similar changes have also been reported with topical minoxidil use [47]. Furthermore, LLLT has been demonstrated to modulate inflammatory processes and immunological responses, which may also have an effect in hair regrowth [32,48]. A study conducted by Wikramanayake et al. [19] on C3H/HeJ mouse model of AA supported this assumption wherein the mice treated with laser comb, increased number of hair follicles with majority in anagen phase were noted with decreased inflammatory infiltrates. Considering that inflammatory infiltrates are highly disruptive to hair follicle biology and multiple cytokines such as IFN-γ, IL-1α and β, TNF-α, MHC and Fas-antigen and macrophage migration inhibitory factor are all involved in the cyclic hair growth and have been shown to play a role in the pathogenesis of AA, modulatory effects of LLLT on inflammation might have a significant role in treatment of AA [19].
 
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